HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

The Out of Town Thread part XXXV (All non Habs related news here)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-26-2012, 10:52 AM
  #926
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post


He said it in his interview for the Avs web site when he got traded to the Avs. He said that Gill helped him with the mental side of the game and that watching him play in the playoffs aginst Caps and Pens was a great experiance.
Oh, well that settles it then! Close the books! What would O'Byrne have done without the great Hal Gill, and let's not forget PK, he'd probably be in the minors now.

Again, you prove my point that Gill brought nothing. You're clinging on to little things like the PK and leadership. Pathetic really..


The guys all love Staubitz and say his presence helps them, are you going to tell me he's great too?

Kriss E is online now  
Old
03-26-2012, 11:02 AM
  #927
bcv
My french sucks.
 
bcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Oh, well that settles it then! Close the books! What would O'Byrne have done without the great Hal Gill, and let's not forget PK, he'd probably be in the minors now.

Again, you prove my point that Gill brought nothing. You're clinging on to little things like the PK and leadership. Pathetic really..


The guys all love Staubitz and say his presence helps them, are you going to tell me he's great too?
You need those types of players to keep the locker room together.

bcv is online now  
Old
03-26-2012, 11:26 AM
  #928
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcv View Post
You need those types of players to keep the locker room together.
You know what really keeps the locker room together? Winning.
And there are plenty of guys that can step in for that, guys like Cole, Gorges, Markov, Gionta, respected veterans that can actually still play hockey, they can keep the guys together too.
Also, if we're 29th in the NHL, I don't really care if the guys all love each other.

Kriss E is online now  
Old
03-26-2012, 11:47 AM
  #929
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You know what really keeps the locker room together? Winning.
And there are plenty of guys that can step in for that, guys like Cole, Gorges, Markov, Gionta, respected veterans that can actually still play hockey, they can keep the guys together too.
Also, if we're 29th in the NHL, I don't really care if the guys all love each other.
You are of the opinion that hockey is like baseball: a sport purely about individual players and individual performance, where a team is nothing more than nothing less than the sum of its parts.

In reality, there is some truth to that, but there is also truth to the fact that hockey is a team sport, and that a team might be more, or less, than the sum of its parts.

You believe that the purpose of a 4th line is to provide secondary scoring, to be a lesser 2nd line. I believe, as the majority of GMs believe, that the purpose of a 4th line is to enhance primary scoring, by giving more confidence and fun to the star players, for example as Staubitz and White do. There is simply no denying the fact that the team is playing better since Staubitz joined.

The Rangers, the Penguins, the Flyers, the Bruins, all have significant size in their lineup aimed largely at intimidation. Sather signed Boogarde to a 4-year deal, and has now added John Scott.

Is it possible that they are all wrong and you are right? Yes that is possible, but it is unlikely. You have provided no support for your argument. All you've done is gone from the theory that a hockey team is nothing less and nothing more than the sum of its parts, and concluded that we just need better individual performers. If your theory is valid, then your conclusion is valid. However, your theory is probably not valid.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 11:59 AM
  #930
Madam Kadri
Fight, Troll, Score
 
Madam Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 6,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Saddest thing is that the Habs had it. They were a really good 5-on-5 club earlier this season, deservedly so, and just needed the PP to get untracked, and it was going to happen sooner or later.

Now, after the demolition job done on them, they're just horrible. What a bloody, inexcusable waste.
Good, perhaps, but not dominant.

Madam Kadri is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #931
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You are of the opinion that hockey is like baseball: a sport purely about individual players and individual performance, where a team is nothing more than nothing less than the sum of its parts.

In reality, there is some truth to that, but there is also truth to the fact that hockey is a team sport, and that a team might be more, or less, than the sum of its parts.
No, I don't. Hockey is a team sport. Let's not go into extremes now and start assuming beliefs. I said Gill was useless outside the PK, which he was. Now some guys have nothing else to defend him with so they resort to ''leadership''. To me, that's a clear indication that he was mostly useless during games.
I said Hammer over him would have been a much better decision. Now people base their judgment on his performance in Washington to say he's horrible, but I think he would have had a much better season here, as he did last year.

That's all I was saying. I'm not denying leadership. I'm saying using it in order to prove Gill's use is weak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You believe that the purpose of a 4th line is to provide secondary scoring, to be a lesser 2nd line. I believe, as the majority of GMs believe, that the purpose of a 4th line is to enhance primary scoring, by giving more confidence and fun to the star players, for example as Staubitz and White do. There is simply no denying the fact that the team is playing better since Staubitz joined.
I have no idea where you got the idea that I think the purpose of a 4th line is secondary scoring. I don't. But hey, if you have a 4th line that provides you with consistent scoring, as well as the 1st-2nd-3rd lines, then you probably have an all-star team. It's irrelevant anyways because no team in the NHL can put forth such a roster.
Giving more confidence to you star players, in the end, changes absolutely nothing.
To be clear on the matter, I have absolutely no issues with having guys like Staubitz or White in. I welcome them with open arms actually.
But to think they're actually game changers is just absolutely false. You say we're playing better since Staubitz is here. How so? Because some players say they like having a big guy beat the opponents that try to intimidate? Not a surprising answer, but does it really change much in terms of overall performance? You're gonna have a hard time proving that one.
I think we actually dropped in the standings since Staubitz joined. We still have no system, we still suck on the PP, we still don't have another scoring line outside the 1st one, the top line did not increase production, our defense is still fragile and weak, so how is it that we are clearly better? We're not better. Some guys feel better, maybe more relaxed, but we still are losing buddy, and losing badly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The Rangers, the Penguins, the Flyers, the Bruins, all have significant size in their lineup aimed largely at intimidation. Sather signed Boogarde to a 4-year deal, and has now added John Scott.

Is it possible that they are all wrong and you are right? Yes that is possible, but it is unlikely. You have provided no support for your argument. All you've done is gone from the theory that a hockey team is nothing less and nothing more than the sum of its parts, and concluded that we just need better individual performers. If your theory is valid, then your conclusion is valid. However, your theory is probably not valid.
I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I had a theory.
I said Hammer over Gill because he brings much more to the table. I said Gill's leadership is overrated and we have plenty of other guys that can fill that void.
I used Staubitz as an example of a simple player, with a single purpose, fighting, and how he makes others feel great, but in the end doesn't improve us as our record CLEARLY proves.

I can see the purpose a guy like Staubitz brings, I can see the purpose Gill brings as well. Does this mean they are incredibly useful? No. They are specialist, and it's good to have them. But if the bar is set so low that they're considered incredibly useful, then all the players ahead of them are what?
They serve a purpose, a small one. That's it that's all.

Kriss E is online now  
Old
03-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #932
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,960
vCash: 500
Awards:
Wow, I knew he was having a bad year but I didn't know Ryan Getzlaf was sitting at 9 goals. Travis Moen has the same amount in 30 fewer games...

hototogisu is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #933
Protest the Hero
Registered User
 
Protest the Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Wow just got around to seeing that Ducks no-goal against the Bruins. How can they overturn that when it was originally called a goal by the ref closest to the play?

I thought these plays weren't reversible? Only against the Bruins I guess is when they can now review these kind of plays.

Protest the Hero is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #934
llamateizer
Registered User
 
llamateizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Country:
Posts: 5,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Wow, I knew he was having a bad year but I didn't know Ryan Getzlaf was sitting at 9 goals. Travis Moen has the same amount in 30 fewer games...
thats crazy

its the whole team that lost in productions

1st line 2011
2nd line 2012
1 Corey Perry ANA R 82 50 48 98 +9
2 Corey Perry ANA R 74 35 22 57 -6

2 Teemu Selanne ANA R 73 31 49 80 +6
1 Teemu Selanne ANA R 76 24 39 63 +4

3 Ryan Getzlaf ANA C 67 19 57 76 +14
3 Ryan Getzlaf ANA C 76 9 45 54 -10

4 Bobby Ryan ANA R 82 34 37 71 +15
4 Bobby Ryan ANA R 76 27 23 50 -1

5 Lubomir VisnovskANA D 81 18 50 68 +18
7 Lubomir VisnovskANA D 63 6 21 27 +6

6 Saku Koivu ANA C 75 15 30 45 -8
5 Saku Koivu ANA C 68 11 23 34 +10

7 Cam Fowler ANA D 76 10 30 40 -25
6 Cam Fowler ANA D 76 5 24 29 -24

8 Jason Blake ANA L 76 16 16 32 -5
16 Jason Blake ANA L 39 7 5 12 -1


9 Toni Lydman ANA D 78 3 22 25 +32
15 Toni Lydman ANA D 70 0 13 13 -1


11 Francois BeaucheANA D 81 5 12 17 -8
9 Francois BeaucheANA D 76 8 14 22 -9

15 Luca Sbisa ANA D 68 2 9 11 -11
10 Luca Sbisa ANA D 74 5 17 22 -5

llamateizer is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 02:02 PM
  #935
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Wow just got around to seeing that Ducks no-goal against the Bruins. How can they overturn that when it was originally called a goal by the ref closest to the play?

I thought these plays weren't reversible? Only against the Bruins I guess is when they can now review these kind of plays.
Bruins fans are just happy a call FINALLY went their way this year.. Must be tough sledding for them not having Daddy Campbell to look after them this year..

sheed36 is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 02:44 PM
  #936
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Good, perhaps, but not dominant.
Depending on how one defines "dominant", I honestly don't think it was out of the question. The potential to be a top-10 team in all situations (5-on-5, PP, PK) was there. They already had two out of three, and the PP was suffering from a patently unsustainable run of absurdly low shooting percentage. The underlying number in all three game states were excellent, too. They were also hamstrung by a tendancy to lose games by one (often after having dominated play), another thing that was unlikely to be sustained.

The tragedy of this season isn't so much the low finish, it's the incredible waste.

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 02:55 PM
  #937
Stradale
Registered User
 
Stradale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Wow, I knew he was having a bad year but I didn't know Ryan Getzlaf was sitting at 9 goals. Travis Moen has the same amount in 30 fewer games...
Seriously.

We bashed Gomez hard in the past 2 years for scoring respectively 12 and 7 goals.. but for a guy like Getzlaf, scoring 9 goals is simply unacceptable and he's their captain.

Stradale is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 03:10 PM
  #938
Madam Kadri
Fight, Troll, Score
 
Madam Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 6,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Wow, I knew he was having a bad year but I didn't know Ryan Getzlaf was sitting at 9 goals. Travis Moen has the same amount in 30 fewer games...
Getzlaf's game has always been more about his prodigous assisting ability moreso than his goal-scoring. His career high is 25 goals...

Madam Kadri is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 03:24 PM
  #939
Madam Kadri
Fight, Troll, Score
 
Madam Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 6,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Depending on how one defines "dominant", I honestly don't think it was out of the question. The potential to be a top-10 team in all situations (5-on-5, PP, PK) was there. They already had two out of three, and the PP was suffering from a patently unsustainable run of absurdly low shooting percentage. The underlying number in all three game states were excellent, too. They were also hamstrung by a tendancy to lose games by one (often after having dominated play), another thing that was unlikely to be sustained.

The tragedy of this season isn't so much the low finish, it's the incredible waste.
Our D corps this season has been weak from the get-go, and that has not really changed, although Markov has made it a little more tolerable recently. Subban and Gorges have been our two best ones for most of the season, Emelin is ok, but the rest has been a collective mass of bad and ugly, at least in their own end.

Madam Kadri is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 03:28 PM
  #940
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
We bashed Gomez hard in the past 2 years for scoring respectively 12 and 7 goals.. but for a guy like Getzlaf, scoring 9 goals is simply unacceptable and he's their captain.
Getzlaf's year is a lot like Gomez's pre-second injury actually: good underlying metrics (better than Gomez's), plenty of first assists (second on his team per icetime), way fewer second assists (which can be random), abnormally low personal shooting percentage (5.2%)... I think he's not playing as badly as it looks and will bounce back, but I've thought the same of Gomez, so maybe Getzlaf is just done like dinner at age 26.

It's also an illustration of the difference it can make to go from high on-ice shooting percentage to low-average.

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 03:38 PM
  #941
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Our D corps this season has been weak from the get-go, and that has not really changed
Didn't matter. The Habs were outshooting, outchancing, and outscoring their opponents significantly at evens. The injury to Spacek and his subsequent trade for Kaberle certainly hurt here, as Spacek was much better 5-on-5 than Kaberle while the PP didn't really need help. But what really did the damage pre-coaching change was repeated injuries to the forwards. 76-26 could back a strong line and have it outchance handily; the Plekanec line (with Cammy and Gionta) could be backed by a mediocre pairing and hang on/outchance slightly; and Gomez acted as a lightning rod, starting a lot in the offensive zone and drawing coverage, opening up for the others. They had so much forward depth that they could cover for a weak bottom 4 even with significant injuries the whole time.

The problem happened when forward lines began sinking when not backed by 76-26, which was a factor first of injuries, then of strategy, and finally both. Martin basically went into survival mode, building his entire strategy around 67-51-72 outscoring the chumps while Pleky and Eller held off the toughs, because he was running out of players. Then he was fired, and Cunneyworth spent about twenty games getting a rough understanding of which of his players could do what, so the team kept sinking even as it got healthier, and then they just traded Cammy and Kostitsyn away while Bourque turned out to be an (hopefully temporary) dud, so now they don't have any winger depth and they pretty much stack all their good ones on one line.

The sad thing is, there was a potential solution: split Subban and Gorges, assemble Emelin-Gorges into a shutdown pair, and put Subban with Gill or whoever as another top-4 pair. Ironically the only time this was tried was when Cunneyworth scratched Subban, and 26-74 did very well even in a 4-0 loss. Unfortunately Randy was already in over his head, so that was thinking too far outside the box...

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 04:28 PM
  #942
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
 
Redux91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,374
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Redux91 Send a message via MSN to Redux91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Didn't matter. The Habs were outshooting, outchancing, and outscoring their opponents significantly at evens. The injury to Spacek and his subsequent trade for Kaberle certainly hurt here, as Spacek was much better 5-on-5 than Kaberle while the PP didn't really need help. ...
Eh? Had to stop reading there.

Redux91 is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 04:31 PM
  #943
llamateizer
Registered User
 
llamateizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Country:
Posts: 5,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Eh? Had to stop reading there.
I was going to say that its not that bad that you stopped reading when reaching the end of the post

then saaw the length of the original post.

llamateizer is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #944
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Getzlaf's game has always been more about his prodigous assisting ability moreso than his goal-scoring. His career high is 25 goals...
He's also always gotten to play with Corey Perry, who at this point is clearly the real star of that line.

He's been suffering a lot of accusations of laziness even before this year. I haven't watched much Ducks this year but I'm not hearing good things at all about the way he's playing.

It's funny because people want to lynch Plekanec around here for producing more with less. I don't think Getzlaf is done but he seems to have very little drive.

Et le But is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #945
Madam Kadri
Fight, Troll, Score
 
Madam Kadri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland native
Country: United States
Posts: 6,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Eh? Had to stop reading there.
While I disagree with MathMan that it didn't need help, Kaberle has done jack **** to boost the power play and his 5-on-5 play in his own zone is indeed freaking awful. And the penalty kill? He doesn't even play on it.

Madam Kadri is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 05:47 PM
  #946
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Eh? Had to stop reading there.
The problem on the PP was one of finish, not of creating scoring chances. It was a false problem, an extended slump, rather than a structural or talent issue, and all in all, it was likely to become as strong as it had been the previous two seasons.

Adding Kaberle didn't hurt the PP, but it weakened the club where it had its real weakness: 5-on-5 defensemen.

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #947
Crimson Skorpion
Global Moderator
 
Crimson Skorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lachine, Quebec
Country: Germany
Posts: 27,697
vCash: 50
Awards:
I laughed so hard at this when I saw it, I figured I'd share it with you all.


__________________
"I really like the way Drew Doughty plays the game. He's like a defenceman version of Erik Karlsson."
-68
Crimson Skorpion is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 06:20 PM
  #948
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,129
vCash: 500
A reminder to my buddies on the tank watch, tampa game is on RDS.

__________________



"overlords is one of my favorite people on this entire site." - Hfboards
overlords is online now  
Old
03-26-2012, 06:26 PM
  #949
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
A reminder to my buddies on the tank watch, tampa game is on RDS.
TSN2 also

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-26-2012, 06:43 PM
  #950
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,129
vCash: 500
lol @ roloson's home run attempt


edit: w00t. The cavemalone scores, 1-0 lightning.


Last edited by overlords: 03-26-2012 at 06:55 PM.
overlords is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.