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YOUR COUNTRY'S 2012/2013 World Junior Team

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Old
03-27-2012, 02:50 AM
  #101
WayneBruce
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
picking between Russia and USA isnt anywhere as tough of a choice as USA or Canada.

simply not gonna happen at this point.
Why?

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03-27-2012, 04:34 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
My shot at Team Slovakia:

Forwards:
Richard Mraz - Marko Dano (1994) - Marek Tvrdon
Juraj Bezuch - Bruno Mraz - Denis Hudec
Matej Hindos - Michal Hlinka - Vladimir Dolnik
Martin Reway (1995) - Patrick Koys (1995) - Filip Vasko

Defence:
Martin Gernat - Peter Ceresnak
Karol Korim - Peter Bezuska
Emil Bagin - Patrik Luza

Goaltenders:
Richard Sabol (1994)
Patrick Rybar
Maybe there should be also Peter Cehlárik. Ok, he is only 16, but i have such a feeling, he is "The prospect".
And what do you think about Jan Duben? 19 years old D, played in Sweden this season.

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03-27-2012, 09:34 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
Why?
really?

it really isnt that difficult when you think about it.

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03-27-2012, 10:19 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
really?

it really isnt that difficult when you think about it.
uhh? please explain it to me. Are the russian teams usually much worse than the american or what?

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03-27-2012, 06:17 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Where does this assesment come from? How is he not good without without the puck? He makes mental errors, but as I said, so do almost every junior defensemen. His speed and hockey sense allows him to get back to cover most mistakes.

And Beaulieu really isn't better defensively than Murphy. And you're wrong on the second part, Murphy had to change his game because Don Hay and the other assistant coaches (Especially the one, forget his name but he was the one responsible for Murphy being cut from the 2011 Ivan Hlinka despite Murphy being far and away the best player at that camp) wanted Murphy to play a defense first style and they all but neutralized his game. Murphy lost all his edge, offensively and defensively.



I do...

Second post.
Beaulieu can use his size and he plays much more physical than Murphy and has great speed too to get back on defense. He's a better player overall. Beaulieu made it over Murphy for a reason. Beaulieu can obviously adapt to any style a lot better than Murphy can. Versatile players have an advantage.

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03-27-2012, 06:19 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
uhh? please explain it to me. Are the russian teams usually much worse than the american or what?
I think he's trying to confuse us.

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03-27-2012, 06:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by spfan View Post
Beaulieu can use his size and he plays much more physical than Murphy and has great speed too to get back on defense. He's a better player overall. Beaulieu made it over Murphy for a reason. Beaulieu can obviously adapt to any style a lot better than Murphy can. Versatile players have an advantage.
Unless mention how many times you've actually watched Murphy I'm going to have to assume you're just making up everything because you're completely wrong. Beaulieu is not better than Murphy, not even close.

He made it over Murphy because Murphy was disadvantaged from the start in that he played a game where he is the focal point when he's on the ice while the coaching staff didn't (And they freely admiited it) like their defensemen playing a non conservetive style.

And saying Beaulieu made it over Murphy as evidence that he's better (Which is untrue, Murphys better in just about every part of his game) doesn't really work because Murphy didn't make the teamed based on the style he played (Hint, when he was 17 he was one of the best defensemen in camp when Cameron let him play to his strengths) and that team ended up being one of the most disappointing team Canada's in a long time.

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03-27-2012, 07:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
uhh? please explain it to me. Are the russian teams usually much worse than the american or what?
I'm not sure I agree with AD on this one. While you don't see as many scenarios come up where players have the option to play for either the U.S. or Russia (as opposed to the more common U.S./Canada), Russians are a very proud people with a great sports (hockey for sure) tradition. The issue I see here is Galchenyuk doesn't really have super strong ties to any one country, so when the choice comes to who to represent it's less about factors such as patriotism and more about career. That's why I think the U.S. makes more sense.

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03-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
uhh? please explain it to me. Are the russian teams usually much worse than the american or what?
it is very simple. and I am not being disrespectful to any Russian or its teams...

Russia is not a hockey power like Canada, they simply are not. if a player is having the choice of USA or Russia, its not the same as a player who has to pick between US and Canada. Canada is the power and everyone wants to play for the winner, thats why we lose kids now a days.

the Russian factor still exists and I see no reason for any player that has the chance to rid themselves of that not do so...no matter if you are playing in North America, teams are still weary of Russian players and their dedication to this league.

more times then naught the Russian national teams are in turmoil or completely falter. there always seems to be a ton of drama in who is the GM, the coach, and what players get picked at all levels. Larionov has stated these numerous times over the years as well as many others.

simply put, the drama usually follows the Russians wherever they go. a kid like Galchenyuk who really doesnt owe much to Russia in terms of his development really doesnt have that hard of a choice to make...Russia or the US.

I fully understand that the US seems to underperform at the WJC level, but since 1991 there isnt another nation that has been as close to Canada then the US in competing for the Gold.. 1991 Canada Cup - silver, 1996 World Cup - Gold, 2002 Olympics - silver - 2010 Olympics - silver

it isnt about Russian players not having pride, it just isnt the same stage as a player picking between the US or Canada...then I would fear losing Galchenyuk as Canada does draw the more kids then ever.

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03-27-2012, 10:23 PM
  #110
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At least you're using the real reason why he likely will pick the US and not the stuff you used to say (That he wasn't Russian or that he was a US trained player).

Because despite it being a good reason, that is the only reason he will play for the US. If Larionov told him to pick whatever team he wanted to instead of telling him to pick the US, it's almost certain he would have chosen Russia. Galchenyuk will likely be the first major player to pick his national team over buisneses rather than identity.

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03-27-2012, 11:27 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
At least you're using the real reason why he likely will pick the US and not the stuff you used to say (That he wasn't Russian or that he was a US trained player).

Because despite it being a good reason, that is the only reason he will play for the US. If Larionov told him to pick whatever team he wanted to instead of telling him to pick the US, it's almost certain he would have chosen Russia. Galchenyuk will likely be the first major player to pick his national team over buisneses rather than identity.
I wasn't aware you know Alex personally. Please, enlighten us more on his inner thoughts during his decision process. Here, I'll let Alex speak for a second:

Quote:
"I always wanted to play for the US. This is where I was born and spent my first four years of life. I went there every year after that. USA means more to me [than any other country],” Galchenyuk said firmly.
Alex - himself - is also on record saying the only reason he ever considered playing for Russia is because of how close he is with Yakupov and is also on record about how disgusted he was with the way the Russian team/staff treated him at the Ivan Hlinka tournament because he didn't want to play for their team.

Now, I'm not going to pretend to guess why Alex is choosing the US because none of us are involved in the inner dealings of that decision making process. I'm sure Larionov had a big influence, as did his dad, himself, his affiliations, what they feel is good for "business," and so forth. The reality is he had a decision to make and he's completely justified in choosing Team USA just as he would have been to choose Team Russia.

Beyond the articles online, we'd all be guessing at why. But lets not sling mud at other posters for why they think he made the decision he did (regardless if their reasons are likely or not) and then follow that lesson up with possible fabricated reasons of your own - reasons you can't verify any more than he can his.

But true, Galchenyuk is certainly the first to play for a team he didn't identify with, regardless that he's been an American since birth. Tyler Myers had only spent a couple more years in Canada than Galchenyuk has in the US, played for Team USA first, and had to be given Canadian citizenship to play for them. But he's a Canadian through and through, right? And who can forget those proud Canadians Peter Stastny and Petr Nedved?

Galchenyuk, like a host of players, had a choice to make. It's foolish to attempt to find fault in a decision that is his and his alone. It's his right as a dual citizen. No one is trying to argue that Team USA doesn't benefit from this decision more often than not but your motivations here have always been clear.

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03-28-2012, 12:03 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Redarmynative View Post
I've seen him in the 1st Round in some recent mocks. Can you explain further.
He just hasn't taken that next step in my viewings. A player that shined as a youngster but who's game has stagnated while others have caught up. He has a very good skill set but I don't think he gets it overall: how to maximize those talents, how to prepare and approach the game, etc. I wouldn't say it's a lack of hockey sense yet, even though it quite possibly is, because he's still young. Sometimes it takes awhile for that to come on. Funny thing is I still think he'd be best suited - easily - by going to Wisconsin. But there have been some glaring issues that have come up this year. He looks like a player that's still impressed with what he did last year instead of a player that worked his ass off trying to improve on that year and his weaknesses.

He reminds me a hell of a lot of Adam Clendening. Elite offensive skills. Not bad but not great skating. Turnover machine. Questionable hockey sense. Clendening hasn't improved at all, heck he might have regressed, since he was 17. Hopefully Schmaltz gets it together and doesn't completely follow Adam's path.

I'd suspect Jordan is invited to the summer camp but he needs to take a BIG step to be considered for the team in my opinion. I think he also slides to the middle of the second round as well in the upcoming draft.

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03-28-2012, 12:46 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
He just hasn't taken that next step in my viewings. A player that shined as a youngster but who's game has stagnated while others have caught up. He has a very good skill set but I don't think he gets it overall: how to maximize those talents, how to prepare and approach the game, etc. I wouldn't say it's a lack of hockey sense yet, even though it quite possibly is, because he's still young. Sometimes it takes awhile for that to come on. Funny thing is I still think he'd be best suited - easily - by going to Wisconsin. But there have been some glaring issues that have come up this year. He looks like a player that's still impressed with what he did last year instead of a player that worked his ass off trying to improve on that year and his weaknesses.

He reminds me a hell of a lot of Adam Clendening. Elite offensive skills. Not bad but not great skating. Turnover machine. Questionable hockey sense. Clendening hasn't improved at all, heck he might have regressed, since he was 17. Hopefully Schmaltz gets it together and doesn't completely follow Adam's path.

I'd suspect Jordan is invited to the summer camp but he needs to take a BIG step to be considered for the team in my opinion. I think he also slides to the middle of the second round as well in the upcoming draft.
Clendening looks a ton better this season then last season. he has come a ways from the darkside.

Schmaltz was just ranked 17th overall on the NHL.com mock draft. kid has the size and skill to be a mid to late first round pick. much better suited for the pro game then Clendening at this stage imo.

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03-28-2012, 12:49 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
At least you're using the real reason why he likely will pick the US and not the stuff you used to say (That he wasn't Russian or that he was a US trained player).

Because despite it being a good reason, that is the only reason he will play for the US. If Larionov told him to pick whatever team he wanted to instead of telling him to pick the US, it's almost certain he would have chosen Russia. Galchenyuk will likely be the first major player to pick his national team over buisneses rather than identity.
someone lights up the Galchenyuk bat signal, and here you are as usual. same boring song and dance.

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03-28-2012, 02:30 AM
  #115
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correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't galchenyuk also play for belarus? His father is belarussian.

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03-28-2012, 02:53 AM
  #116
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correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't galchenyuk also play for belarus? His father is belarussian.
Yes he could.

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03-28-2012, 06:16 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Unless mention how many times you've actually watched Murphy I'm going to have to assume you're just making up everything because you're completely wrong. Beaulieu is not better than Murphy, not even close.

He made it over Murphy because Murphy was disadvantaged from the start in that he played a game where he is the focal point when he's on the ice while the coaching staff didn't (And they freely admiited it) like their defensemen playing a non conservetive style.

And saying Beaulieu made it over Murphy as evidence that he's better (Which is untrue, Murphys better in just about every part of his game) doesn't really work because Murphy didn't make the teamed based on the style he played (Hint, when he was 17 he was one of the best defensemen in camp when Cameron let him play to his strengths) and that team ended up being one of the most disappointing team Canada's in a long time.
Okay, go ahead and think Murphy is better.
Beaulieu is a much more well round d-man.
They're both fast, Murphy is better offensively, but Beaulieu is much better defensively and physically. He'll succeed because he can play any role, while Murphy will only have an offensive/PP role. I'm not a huge fan of either btw, i'm just telling you who i think is better.

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03-28-2012, 03:16 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I wasn't aware you know Alex personally. Please, enlighten us more on his inner thoughts during his decision process. Here, I'll let Alex speak for a second:



Alex - himself - is also on record saying the only reason he ever considered playing for Russia is because of how close he is with Yakupov and is also on record about how disgusted he was with the way the Russian team/staff treated him at the Ivan Hlinka tournament because he didn't want to play for their team.

Now, I'm not going to pretend to guess why Alex is choosing the US because none of us are involved in the inner dealings of that decision making process. I'm sure Larionov had a big influence, as did his dad, himself, his affiliations, what they feel is good for "business," and so forth. The reality is he had a decision to make and he's completely justified in choosing Team USA just as he would have been to choose Team Russia.

Beyond the articles online, we'd all be guessing at why. But lets not sling mud at other posters for why they think he made the decision he did (regardless if their reasons are likely or not) and then follow that lesson up with possible fabricated reasons of your own - reasons you can't verify any more than he can his.

But true, Galchenyuk is certainly the first to play for a team he didn't identify with, regardless that he's been an American since birth. Tyler Myers had only spent a couple more years in Canada than Galchenyuk has in the US, played for Team USA first, and had to be given Canadian citizenship to play for them. But he's a Canadian through and through, right? And who can forget those proud Canadians Peter Stastny and Petr Nedved?

Galchenyuk, like a host of players, had a choice to make. It's foolish to attempt to find fault in a decision that is his and his alone. It's his right as a dual citizen. No one is trying to argue that Team USA doesn't benefit from this decision more often than not but your motivations here have always been clear.
You know that's not true and you know it. He obviously isn't going to come out and say "Well I picked the US because it'll help my draft status and my own career, I'm really not American", that would be stupid. There is simply no chance a person who wasn't even in school when he left identifies with the country.

The fact is, before Galchenyuk made his decision, AmericanDream always said Galchenyuk was American at heart and tried to argue he spend a large amount of time there (Before Russian posters came on and confirmed he had lived in Russia for the majority of his life). That's why I posted, and people that remember his post can see how much his arguement has changed.

Tyler Myers is a horrible example. It wasn't a buiseness decision, it was, in his own words, to thank Canada because he wouldn't have been a hockey player if he never moved to Canada. Galchenyuk's is clearly a buisness move, because Larionov would not have told him to pick the US for any other reason.

Nedved and Stastny defected to Canada, which in Statsnys case, he could not play for Czechoslovakia (He later played for Slovakia in the mid 90s after), and he obtained Canadian citizenship because he felt partially Canadian after his defection. This is also true for Nedved. Galchenyuk on the other hand has only lived 1 year in the US since he was a toddler before moving to Sarnia when he was drafted. All 3 of your examples owe their NHL careers to Canada, Galchenyuk owes none of his career to the United States beyond allowing him to bypass the import draft.

And where am I finding fault in his decision? It really doesn't matter to me. I just made an obeservation AmericanDream had changed his arguement from Galchenyuk identifying as an American to Galchenyuk following whats best for his career.

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someone lights up the Galchenyuk bat signal, and here you are as usual. same boring song and dance.
Someone calls Galchenyuk something other than only American and here you are as usual. same boring song and dance.

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03-28-2012, 09:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
You know that's not true and you know it. He obviously isn't going to come out and say "Well I picked the US because it'll help my draft status and my own career, I'm really not American", that would be stupid. There is simply no chance a person who wasn't even in school when he left identifies with the country.
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. All we know is that he said it and while that doesn't make it true, you saying he's lying and doing it for the reasons you state aren't necessarily true either. We can't prove either so don't act as if you're the one unequivocally speaking the truth.

He also doesn't have to come out and say anything. He could have just said, "I'm going to play for Team USA." Or just made his decision known to USA Hockey officials and left it at that. Because, to be honest, USA Hockey doesn't care why Alex, or any other dual-citizen, wants to play for them. He does so they're happy to have him.

It's also stupid to assume you know what he chooses to identify with and why. He's lived all over the world and moved a lot. He could identify most as a Russian; Belarussian; or American. He could identify with them all in various degrees. Only he knows. Now, like you, I'd agree he most likely identifies culturally as a Russian. He was a mystery for awhile on here until he became the big fish in the OHL draft. Most didn't know he was even an American citizen (X-Sharkie was the first to break that news and that he wanted to play for Team USA way before anyone else). A lot of posters, Russian included, weren't even sure if he was a Belarussian only or not.

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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
The fact is, before Galchenyuk made his decision, AmericanDream always said Galchenyuk was American at heart and tried to argue he spend a large amount of time there (Before Russian posters came on and confirmed he had lived in Russia for the majority of his life). That's why I posted, and people that remember his post can see how much his arguement has changed.
That's actually not true. AmericanDream actually first posted that Galchenyuk wasn't American and would play for Russia. He then changed his tune when Galchenyuk was invited to the NTDP. I've been plenty critical of him over that and the posts are here to prove it.

I'm not arguing that AmericanDream is correct. Not at all. But that while he can't prove his justifications, neither can you. That's my point. Maybe Galchenyuk is telling the truth and really has wanted to play for Team USA since he realized he was good enough to have that chance? Maybe not. People make their decisions for a variety of reasons and motivations.

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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Tyler Myers is a horrible example. It wasn't a buiseness decision, it was, in his own words, to thank Canada because he wouldn't have been a hockey player if he never moved to Canada. Galchenyuk's is clearly a buisness move, because Larionov would not have told him to pick the US for any other reason.
That's not entirely true either. Myers was already a hockey player when he moved to Canada. His comment was that he probably wouldn't have stuck with hockey had he stayed in Texas (and just like you accuse Galchenyuk, he could be lying. It may be stupid to tell the truth, no?) Second, Myers never played for Canada either until he wasn't offered a spot on Team USA U-18 tournament because they send the NTDP team. He had just played for Team USA less than a year before that. Then he got his Canadian citizenship and played for Canada. All evidence there points to a business decision too. His history before that choice showed no loyalty to Canada. He was considered a raw prospect. He made Team Canada, got a lot more exposure than he ever would have for Team USA, and he made the most of it.

I have nothing against Myers' decision. He had every right. And while I don't necessarily believe him, it doesn't mean he's not telling the truth either. But to act as if Galchenyuk is possibly the first player to ever make a business (very loose term) that would be good for his career when deciding which country to choose is silly. There's just as much evidence as a guy like Myers doing it for the same reasons. Or Jason Pominiville for Team USA. Or a slew of other players.

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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Nedved and Stastny defected to Canada, which in Statsnys case, he could not play for Czechoslovakia (He later played for Slovakia in the mid 90s after), and he obtained Canadian citizenship because he felt partially Canadian after his defection. This is also true for Nedved. Galchenyuk on the other hand has only lived 1 year in the US since he was a toddler before moving to Sarnia when he was drafted. All 3 of your examples owe their NHL careers to Canada, Galchenyuk owes none of his career to the United States beyond allowing him to bypass the import draft.
They defected for a multitude of reasons, one being hockey. Canada is the obvious location to defect in that case. Sure sounds like business (better opportunity) decisions to me. And you assume Stastny felt partially Canadian after defecting (went to less school there than Galchenyuk...which you use against Alex, and spent less time...but don't hold those facts against Peter) but conveniently dismiss Alex possibly feeling American at all either? Convenient, indeed.

The owe their NHL careers for defecting. It's not as if Canada had anything to do with their talent or training them. Again, they took advantage of the opportunity. Good for them. No more evidence they did it for patriotic reasons than Galchenyuk, especially given that both players abandoned Canada going forward. Opportunistic. And even if Alex is doing it for the same type of reasons, again, it wouldn't make him the first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
And where am I finding fault in his decision? It really doesn't matter to me. I just made an obeservation AmericanDream had changed his arguement from Galchenyuk identifying as an American to Galchenyuk following whats best for his career.
The point is while you may think he's doing it for one reason and AmericanDream another, we don't know who's right. I tend to agree that it's because Alex is choosing what he and his family considered the "best opportunity" but that doesn't mean it can't be more than that. Only their close inner circle knows. Not us.

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03-28-2012, 10:04 PM
  #120
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Nevermind, better said above.


Last edited by BeersHockey: 03-29-2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: I have no idea what I am talking about.
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03-28-2012, 10:05 PM
  #121
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Im pretty sure Brett Hull was one of the first players choose his national team based on a business decision, but it wasn't for the WJC (did that even exist back then?) so its different

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03-28-2012, 10:10 PM
  #122
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Im pretty sure Brett Hull was one of the first players choose his national team based on a business decision, but it wasn't for the WJC (did that even exist back then?) so its different
The WJC was around back then but Hull decided to play for Team USA in the 1986 World Championships.

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03-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #123
ed bruin
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
The WJC was around back then but Hull decided to play for Team USA in the 1986 World Championships.
Yeah he later played for the USA in the olympics so I guess its a big difference, but what do u think of the USA WJC team if Galchenyuk?

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03-28-2012, 10:30 PM
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William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by ed bruin View Post
Yeah he later played for the USA in the olympics so I guess its a big difference, but what do u think of the USA WJC team if Galchenyuk?
Should be pretty good. You can't ask for 3 better defensemen to build your team around than Jacob Trouba, Seth Jones, and Connor Murphy. Then you have John Gibson in goal as well. Very good building blocks. Will be nice to have a very strong defense, on paper, this WJC versus the paper thin defense we just iced.

Other than the obvious things like leadership, chemistry, and coaching that we'll have to wait and see on, I think the one question mark now would be who's going to lead the offensive. Outside of Grimaldi, Galchenyuk, and Gaudreau, there's not much else in the way of elite offensive talents to build around and two of those guys are tiny, although Grimaldi is as scrappy as anyone.

This team, on paper, actually reminds me of the Gold Medal team of 2010. Very strong defense and while there's minimal elite talent up front, there's good depth available, that will need to develop strong chemistry to provide a consistent offensive threat. The difference to me is that going into 2010, goaltending was a question mark and no one expected Campbell to be as good as he was. Gibson, at this stage, is a much more developed goalie and cornerstone for this team than you had with Mike Lee and a largely untested 17-year old Campbell heading in to 2010.

Still, it really means nothing now but I think this roster will be a lot easier to predict than the team was last year. Less depth but the good players are more evenly distributed amongst the positions this year.

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03-28-2012, 11:04 PM
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Maybe there should be also Peter Cehlárik. Ok, he is only 16, but i have such a feeling, he is "The prospect".
And what do you think about Jan Duben? 19 years old D, played in Sweden this season.
I must admit I have never seen Peter Cehlárik play. He will be 17 at the time of the tournament. It is an interesting question though of how many of the infamous 1995ers does the coach want to bring - and which ones in particular.

As for Jan Duben, any help at defence for this team would be great, especially now that Marincin and Janosik have graduated.

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