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03-27-2012, 11:41 AM
  #526
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
But Bourque is the better player...at least, that's what I was told when the trade went down.

I want Gauthier so far away from this team it's not even funny.
People here are still out there trying to talk about how this was a good trade... I never use emoticons but

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03-27-2012, 11:43 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
People here are still out there trying to talk about how this was a good trade... I never use emoticons but
It was indeed a BAD trade involving two BAD players: Cammy and Bourque !

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03-27-2012, 11:44 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Not all giveaways lead to near goals. The logged stat doesn't tell the reader the degree of "danger" the giveaway really had.
Has Bourque done anything to make us even notice him? I'd almost be happy to see him give the puck away just so that I'd know he was there... He's like Snuffolupogus out there.
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
It was indeed a BAD trade involving two BAD players: Cammy and Bourque !
Except one guy is actually producing and had trade value. The other wears a Montreal Canadiens jersey. I wanted to say 'plays with us' except I haven't noticed Bourque on the ice since we sent Cammy to Calgary in that pathetic panic move.

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03-27-2012, 11:47 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Has Bourque done anything to make us even notice him? I'd almost be happy to see him give the puck away just so that I'd know he was there... He's like Snuffolupogus out there.

Except one guy is actually producing and had trade value. The other wears a Montreal Canadiens jersey. I wanted to say 'plays with us' except I haven't noticed him on the ice since we sent Cammy to Calgary in that pathetic panic move.
Liar, he did fight Hendricks but ya that was about it for Bourque. Horrible but hey look at the bright side, "we saved on the cap". Note most of the people that say that love the Kaberle trade

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03-27-2012, 12:01 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Has Bourque done anything to make us even notice him? I'd almost be happy to see him give the puck away just so that I'd know he was there... He's like Snuffolupogus out there.

Except one guy is actually producing and had trade value. The other wears a Montreal Canadiens jersey. I wanted to say 'plays with us' except I haven't noticed Bourque on the ice since we sent Cammy to Calgary in that pathetic panic move.
So, you really like Cammy's play this season in Montreal ?

He is really a team player, right ?

The only thing I regret is that Martin did not try these lines at the beginning of the season.

Cammy - Plek - Cole
MaxPac- DD - AK

Gomez should had been kicked out of this team last Summer.

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03-27-2012, 12:13 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
So, you really like Cammy's play this season in Montreal ?

He is really a team player, right ?
I get it... you hate the guy. That doesn't mean he was worth zero. And that's pretty much what we traded him for. I have no problem with trading Cammy at all but dumping him was stupid.
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The only thing I regret is that Martin did not try these lines at the beginning of the season.

Cammy - Plek - Cole
MaxPac- DD - AK

Gomez should had been kicked out of this team last Summer.
Everyone knows the Habs have had a horrible season. That doesn't mean that Cammy or Plekanec for that matter have zero value. Yes, we might not get a return as high as we normally would but dumping him for Bourque was incredibly short sighted.

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03-27-2012, 12:16 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy;46803189[B
]I get it... you hate the guy.[/B] That doesn't mean he was worth zero. And that's pretty much what we traded him for. I have no problem with trading Cammy at all but dumping him was stupid.

Everyone knows the Habs have had a horrible season. That doesn't mean that Cammy or Plekanec for that matter have zero value. Yes, we might not get a return as high as we normally would but dumping him for Bourque was incredibly short sighted.
The word "hate" is not appropriate. I never was thrilled by him, especially this season. But if you look at my lines suggestions, he was still on the 1st one with Pleks and Cole.

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03-27-2012, 12:18 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I get it... you hate the guy. That doesn't mean he was worth zero. And that's pretty much what we traded him for. I have no problem with trading Cammy at all but dumping him was stupid.
You realize, of course, that Bourque outscored Cammalleri last year and was doing it again this year prior to the trade while making half his salary, right? If you're going to portray one as a god and the other as scum, you should at least check the facts.

Regardless, I'd like to see how Bourque does with us with a real coach behind the bench before I pass my judgement.

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03-27-2012, 12:19 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I get it... you hate the guy. That doesn't mean he was worth zero. And that's pretty much what we traded him for. I have no problem with trading Cammy at all but dumping him was stupid.

Everyone knows the Habs have had a horrible season. That doesn't mean that Cammy or Plekanec for that matter have zero value. Yes, we might not get a return as high as we normally would but dumping him for Bourque was incredibly short sighted.
Was Plekanec traded ?

It's not the first and last time the habs are fleeced in a trade. Get use to it !

Anyway, we got a 2nd round pick + Holland for Cammy...And Bourque is a very tradable asset with his cap hit. I am expecting better from him next season under a new coach. Playing on a 3rd with Eller might help, or with DD for a while.

I am madder at the AK trade, when Buffalo got a 1st for ****ing gaustad, and we got only a 2nd (in 2013...)... This one I hate.

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03-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post

I am madder at the AK trade, when Buffalo got a 1st for ****ing gaustad, and we got only a 2nd (in 2013...)... This one I hate.
Players like Gaustad have much more value at the deadline than players like Kostitsyn.

Explains why we got more for Gill than Kostitsyn as well.

And 2013 picks are shaping up to be much more valuable than 2012 picks, incidentally.

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03-27-2012, 12:24 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Players like Gaustad have much more value at the deadline than players like Kostitsyn.

Explains why we got more for Gill than Kostitsyn as well.
Gaustad is also a UFA, like AK. I'm sorry, but this guy is not worthing a 1st round pick.

Same for Gill.


Habs have done everything to lower AK's value, and finally, Nashville became the only trade partner.

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03-27-2012, 12:27 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You realize, of course, that Bourque outscored Cammalleri last year and was doing it again this year prior to the trade while making half his salary, right? If you're going to portray one as a god and the other as scum, you should at least check the facts.

Regardless, I'd like to see how Bourque does with us with a real coach behind the bench before I pass my judgement.
A lot of credit goes to Iginla and Jokinen for getting him on the scoresheet as often as he did. Because, despite managing to get points (which is all the scoreboard checkers have the chance to see), those of us who actually watch lots of out of town games year in, year out, have heard and seen a LOT about Bourque's ability to disappear for long stretches, and display little intensity/effort for 16 of his ~18 mins/game. Came as a shock to some who saw those stats and started to hope, but it is what it is, and some of us told ya so from the start.

If the goal was to make some cap space, then fait accomplit. If the goal was to make the Habs harder to play against, then epic fail.

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03-27-2012, 12:35 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Players like Gaustad have much more value at the deadline than players like Kostitsyn.

Explains why we got more for Gill than Kostitsyn as well.

And 2013 picks are shaping up to be much more valuable than 2012 picks, incidentally.
Not sure why you are saying that we got more. Slaney will never play for the Habs. Geoffrion is still a totaly question mark to play for us. So we got a 2nd rounder in 2012. Something you are saying is less valuable than 2013. And we did add at first in 5th in 2013.

While for Kosty, we got a 2nd in 2013, more valuable like you said and gain back the 5th in 2013, again.

All that, while Gill had a prett good value 'cause he was playing good for us and doing some important work, while in the meantime, we did everything we could so that Kostitsyn had the lowest of value ever.

In the end, we got more for Kosty. Not a whole lot you'll say. But we did. And especially when you consider the values that both had with us.

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03-27-2012, 12:39 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You realize, of course, that Bourque outscored Cammalleri last year and was doing it again this year prior to the trade while making half his salary, right? If you're going to portray one as a god and the other as scum, you should at least check the facts.
I know the facts. I wouldn't portray Cammy as God either...
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Regardless, I'd like to see how Bourque does with us with a real coach behind the bench before I pass my judgement.
The whole premise was wrongheaded. Even if say Bourque was as good as Cammy... who cares? I mean seriously why are we trading for this guy? He's a 30 year old problem child who isn't going to help us 'win it now' so why are we trading for him when we were so far out of a playoff spot? It was a horrific misallocation of assets.

If you're not getting a good prospect or at least a 1st rounder, don't trade the guy. And definitely don't do it for another vet with a bad reputation for not caring about anything. Esp when this clown has a longer contract.
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Was Plekanec traded ?

It's not the first and last time the habs are fleeced in a trade. Get use to it !
Get used to it? Seriously? That might be what Bubba says to his slave up in Cell Block 6B and maybe that guy doesn't have a choice but we can fire our GM. PGs the common slave of the entire cell block and we're getting rag dolled all the time. Enough with the brutality already, somebody put him in solitary confinement.
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Anyway, we got a 2nd round pick + Holland for Cammy...And Bourque is a very tradable asset with his cap hit. I am expecting better from him next season under a new coach. Playing on a 3rd with Eller might help, or with DD for a while.

I am madder at the AK trade, when Buffalo got a 1st for ****ing gaustad, and we got only a 2nd (in 2013...)... This one I hate.
Both were dumb and nobody wants Bourque. We could've packaged Cammy AND AK together to get something good. But then Bubba would be upset so...


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Old
03-27-2012, 12:47 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
But Bourque is the better player...at least, that's what I was told when the trade went down.
Yeah, that's why along wit Bourque they got a 2nd, prospect and cap relief.

Nobody ever said Bourque was the better player, stop with that straw man. Do you really think Cammalleri look any better under this awful coach?

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03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #541
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Not sure why you are saying that we got more. Slaney will never play for the Habs. Geoffrion is still a totaly question mark to play for us. So we got a 2nd rounder in 2012. Something you are saying is less valuable than 2013. And we did add at first in 5th in 2013.

While for Kosty, we got a 2nd in 2013, more valuable like you said and gain back the 5th in 2013, again.

All that, while Gill had a prett good value 'cause he was playing good for us and doing some important work, while in the meantime, we did everything we could so that Kostitsyn had the lowest of value ever.

In the end, we got more for Kosty. Not a whole lot you'll say. But we did. And especially when you consider the values that both had with us.
A 1st pick from Nashville this season instead of next means drafting maybe a very good goalie like Subban or Vasiliev. I am not that convinced that Price gonna spend the next 6-10 years with us.

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03-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Has Bourque done anything to make us even notice him? I'd almost be happy to see him give the puck away just so that I'd know he was there... He's like Snuffolupogus out there.
I find that mediocre to bad players who are capable of performing much better leave a sour taste in my mouth. Both Bourque and Cammalleri fit that bill, in their own way.

Bourque has been awful and he is a pathetic excuse for a hockey player. He's got the physical attitbutes, but he is one lazy sonnnofa....

Cammalleri was, for us, a mediocre winger being paid big bucks to play like a big-time winger. He required a position change to get back into "form", a position in which we have enough capable players.

Point is, neither are pleasant to my hockey senses.

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03-27-2012, 01:05 PM
  #543
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I find that mediocre to bad players who are capable of performing much better leave a sour taste in my mouth. Both Bourque and Cammalleri fit that bill, in their own way.

Bourque has been awful and he is a pathetic excuse for a hockey player. He's got the physical attitbutes, but he is one lazy sonnnofa....

Cammalleri was, for us, a mediocre winger being paid big bucks to play like a big-time winger. He required a position change to get back into "form", a position in which we have enough capable players.

Point is, neither are pleasant to my hockey senses.
At this point Cammalleri was in the same league as Kostitsyn as far as I'm concerned. If anything Kostitsyn was more valuable because he could play physical; post-season clutch factor is irrelevant when your team can't even make the playoffs. Add in the contracts (No way will Kostitsyn make much more after this year), and I seriously would take AK back before Cammy without a second thought.

And we got more for Cammy than Kostitsyn. So if there's a trade people should be talking about firing Gauthier for, it's not the Cammalleri one.

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03-27-2012, 01:59 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
I find that mediocre to bad players who are capable of performing much better leave a sour taste in my mouth. Both Bourque and Cammalleri fit that bill, in their own way.

Bourque has been awful and he is a pathetic excuse for a hockey player. He's got the physical attitbutes, but he is one lazy sonnnofa....

Cammalleri was, for us, a mediocre winger being paid big bucks to play like a big-time winger. He required a position change to get back into "form", a position in which we have enough capable players.

Point is, neither are pleasant to my hockey senses.
Like I said, I have no problem with dealing Cammy. I have a problem with the return and the wrongheadedness of dealing him for another vet. Even if Bourque panned out better than he did, it still doesn't do anything for us from a cup standpoint.

No excuse for giving away Gill, Cammy, Kosti and Spacek and not getting a single first round pick out of it. Moreover, sticking us with Bourque and Kaberle in the process is inexcusable. All PG has done is made the rebuild more painful than it had to be.
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At this point Cammalleri was in the same league as Kostitsyn as far as I'm concerned. If anything Kostitsyn was more valuable because he could play physical; post-season clutch factor is irrelevant when your team can't even make the playoffs. Add in the contracts (No way will Kostitsyn make much more after this year), and I seriously would take AK back before Cammy without a second thought.

And we got more for Cammy than Kostitsyn. So if there's a trade people should be talking about firing Gauthier for, it's not the Cammalleri one.
Both moves were stupid but I wouldn't fire him solely for either one. On their own they aren't bad enough to fire somebody. But when you look at PG's work as a whole, it adds up to us being better off without him.

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03-27-2012, 02:08 PM
  #545
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Both moves were stupid but I wouldn't fire him solely for either one. On their own they aren't bad enough to fire somebody. But when you look at PG's work as a whole, it adds up to us being better off without him.
This I definitely agree with. Too many panic moves this season and a terribly constructed defense doomed us this year, and for that Gauthier has failed.

Any problem I have with the Cammalleri trade, as well as the AK one is more to do with the context than anything else; rushing to trade Cammy in the middle of a game, leaving us with no second line wingers, etc.

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03-27-2012, 02:16 PM
  #546
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Yeah, that's why along wit Bourque they got a 2nd, prospect and cap relief.

Nobody ever said Bourque was the better player, stop with that straw man. Do you really think Cammalleri look any better under this awful coach?
That's no straw man.. based only on their play with us, Bourque has been far better than Cammy. (this year, only games played for Montreal)

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03-27-2012, 02:31 PM
  #547
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Cammy scored but he almost cost his team the game at the end with a horrible turnover. Thankfully for him, Kipper was there. As horrible as he has been, I'll take Bourque over Cammy defensively.
I would not. Cammalleri was alright defensively the other seasons he played here mainly with Plekanec. He is such a much better player than Bourque but most people here said they would take Bourque over Cammalleri easily as a player. Since our GM seems to be as smart as them, no wonder this team is in the basement.

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03-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #548
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That's no straw man.. based only on their play with us, Bourque has been far better than Cammy. (this year, only games played for Montreal)
What???

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03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
  #549
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What???
it's truth, cammy was absolutely horrible, bourque is just invisible.

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03-27-2012, 03:33 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Coach Brisebois View Post
it's truth, cammy was absolutely horrible, bourque is just invisible.
I wouldnt go that far, but the obvious part for this season is, production wise :

Bourque in Cal : decent
Bourque in Mtl : bad
Cammy in Cal : decent
Cammy in Mtl : bad


and we could add
AK in Nash : decent
AK in Mtl (this season) : bad

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