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What happens to Roy in the Off-Season?

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Old
03-27-2012, 12:48 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If Ennis and Hodgson are truely ahead of Roy on the depth chart... then keeping him is pointless, better to trade him for a better 2 way center who shows up in the playoffs

Roy for Bolland+

Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Leino-Bolland-Gerbe
This is a kind of deal I could endorse.

Roy for futures: no
Roy for NHL center (with seasoning on either side if needed): yes

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03-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If Ennis and Hodgson are truely ahead of Roy on the depth chart... then keeping him is pointless, better to trade him for a better 2 way center who shows up in the playoffs
The future lineup need not fit in the rigid structure of what a roster "should" be.

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03-27-2012, 12:51 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
The future lineup need not fit in the rigid structure of what a roster "should" be.
that sentence is surprisingly coherent for having no context

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03-27-2012, 12:51 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If Ennis and Hodgson are truely ahead of Roy on the depth chart... then keeping him is pointless, better to trade him for a better 2 way center who shows up in the playoffs

Roy for Bolland+

Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Leino-Bolland-Gerbe
I'm thinking Ennis and Hodgy aren't quite ahead of him on the depth chart yet. As of right now, Roy is still Lindy's baby boy. But I predict changes...and I really like this trade.

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03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #30
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is there any way to calculate the points per 60 minutes of ice time of all the wingers who have skated with Roy over the last 2 seasons, and their points per 60 minutes of ice time for all other shifts (not with Roy)

Even Strength and PP separate

?

I'd love to see Vanek, Ennis, Stafford, Pominville

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03-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
that sentence is surprisingly coherent for having no context
Three offensively focused lines has worked before and can work again. Roy is proficient enough at defense to run a two-way third line given the proper direction.

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03-27-2012, 12:56 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
is there any way to calculate the points per 60 minutes of ice time of all the wingers who have skated with Roy over the last 2 seasons, and their points per 60 minutes of ice time for all other shifts (not with Roy)

Even Strength and PP separate

?

I'd love to see Vanek, Ennis, Stafford, Pominville
To be fair, of course, only the 35 games from last season?

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03-27-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
To be fair, of course, only the 35 games from last season?
no. i think the increased production is relevant regardless of Roy's absence

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03-27-2012, 01:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Three offensively focused lines has worked before and can work again. Roy is proficient enough at defense to run a two-way third line given the proper direction.
it worked for a year and a half in a post lockout open era of hockey...

Roy is not proficient defensively...

I don't want a line centered by Derek Roy matching up all night against a Crosby line... or a Giroux line, etc...

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03-27-2012, 01:03 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
is there any way to calculate the points per 60 minutes of ice time of all the wingers who have skated with Roy over the last 2 seasons, and their points per 60 minutes of ice time for all other shifts (not with Roy)

Even Strength and PP separate

?

I'd love to see Vanek, Ennis, Stafford, Pominville
No. But considering prior to this year Roy was consistently one of their best forwards in pts/60 mins at ES--probably the best over a significant timespan--I'd imagine you wouldn't get the information you want. Roy would have to be scoring a lot of unassisted goals (or getting many of his assists to and from defensemen) if we're going to assume that the other forwards' outputs were lower with one of the highest-scoring players, but higher with lower-scoring players.

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03-27-2012, 01:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no. i think the increased production is relevant regardless of Roy's absence
Other factors nonwithstanding, you should at the very least mark his exit as a significant point if not a border between two sets of data.

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03-27-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
No. But considering prior to this year Roy was consistently one of their best forwards in pts/60 mins at ES--probably the best over a significant timespan--I'd imagine you wouldn't get the information you want. Roy would have to be scoring a lot of unassisted goals (or getting many of his assists to and from defensemen) if we're going to assume that the other forwards' outputs were lower with one of the highest-scoring players, but higher with lower-scoring players.
i want to look at all games played in 2010-11 and 2011-12

I want to know about scoring (specifically for Vanek, Stafford, Pominville, Ennis) on a per 60 mins basis. Separated into WITH ROY and WITHOUT ROY.

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03-27-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Other factors nonwithstanding, you should at the very least mark his exit as a significant point if not a border between two sets of data.
I dont see why that's relevant?

Just because it took the grace of god to separate Roy from our scorers instead of Lindy ?

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03-27-2012, 01:19 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by kaSHian View Post
I'm thinking Ennis and Hodgy aren't quite ahead of him on the depth chart yet. As of right now, Roy is still Lindy's baby boy. But I predict changes...and I really like this trade.
They're not even close to being ahead of him at this point.

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03-27-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it worked for a year and a half in a post lockout open era of hockey...

Roy is not proficient defensively...

I don't want a line centered by Derek Roy matching up all night against a Crosby line... or a Giroux line, etc...
1) I wasn't referring to this franchise specifically.
2) He's capable enough if not spectacular
3) Nobody stops Crosby. You contain him, in this case with the Roy line, Sekera-Myers, and a high-level Miller.

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03-27-2012, 01:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I dont see why that's relevant?

Just because it took the grace of god to separate Roy from our scorers instead of Lindy ?
It completely ignores the shifts made to the roster/style etc. to compensate for practically the only capable forward getting injured. Unless you think Lindy looked at his leading scorer (by a fair margin) go down and said to himself "all according to plan, the system works, any day now" and changed nothing.

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03-27-2012, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
They're not even close to being ahead of him at this point.
Ennis has had what, a month of good play at center? Hodgson three games or so?

Fans love to get ahead of themselves, I'll say that much.

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03-27-2012, 01:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
It completely ignores the shifts made to the roster/style etc. to compensate for practically the only capable forward getting injured. Unless you think Lindy looked at his leading scorer (by a fair margin) go down and said to himself "all according to plan, the system works, any day now" and changed nothing.
it ignores the shifts that made the team better?

hardly... in fact, that's exactly the correlation i am looking for, subjective or not.

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03-27-2012, 01:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
Ennis has had what, a month of good play at center? Hodgson three games or so?

Fans love to get ahead of themselves, I'll say that much.
That they do.




As for the thread question I would say keep him. If we trade him and try to rely on Hodsgon/Ennis as our top 2 centers next season we will be in for a long year. Posters know the importance of centers and center depth. Yet they can't seem to keep themselves from proposing to move one.

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03-27-2012, 01:35 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it ignores the shifts that made the team better?

hardly... in fact, that's exactly the correlation i am looking for, subjective or not.
Your narrative suggests Roy was a negative influence that caused his wingers' poor play. It ignores, however, the possibility that the wingers' improvement is due not to the removal of Roy himself but rather Ruff's changes/self-motivation/etc.

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03-27-2012, 02:35 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
That they do.




As for the thread question I would say keep him. If we trade him and try to rely on Hodsgon/Ennis as our top 2 centers next season we will be in for a long year. Posters know the importance of centers and center depth. Yet they can't seem to keep themselves from proposing to move one.
Roy's impact is not that great on this team, when we were slumping hard, he was not producing anything, I think we would be fine without Roy. His PKing would be missed, but everything else not really.

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03-27-2012, 02:43 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Roy's impact is not that great on this team, when we were slumping hard, he was not producing anything, I think we would be fine without Roy. His PKing would be missed, but everything else not really.
When he was playing poorly we were slumping. Thats actually proof that he does matter and not the other way around.

Not to mention Hodgson and Ennis are completely unproven as top 6 centers. It would be utter stupidity to hand the team over to them.

Having Roy/Ennis/Hodgson means we don't have to rely on any one center to carry the load and can ride out offensive slumps by one or two of them.

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03-27-2012, 02:52 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Your narrative suggests Roy was a negative influence that caused his wingers' poor play. It ignores, however, the possibility that the wingers' improvement is due not to the removal of Roy himself but rather Ruff's changes/self-motivation/etc.
i want to see the raw data... then we can put those numbers up and scrutinize whether the results are due more to Roy abscence, Ruff magic wand, or newfound player self motivation ...

i just want to see the numbers...

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03-27-2012, 02:54 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
When he was playing poorly we were slumping. Thats actually proof that he does matter and not the other way around.

Not to mention Hodgson and Ennis are completely unproven as top 6 centers. It would be utter stupidity to hand the team over to them.

Having Roy/Ennis/Hodgson means we don't have to rely on any one center to carry the load and can ride out offensive slumps by one or two of them.
We have, however, been winning while one of our more, um, highly-compensated forwards has been largely invisible. I wonder how many people think that forward "doesn't matter."

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03-27-2012, 02:56 PM
  #50
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Eh, Mr. Invisible has 5 in his last 4, and he's playing injured. I wouldn't castigate him so.

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