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Visors/Cages/Fishbowls/Nothing

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Old
03-23-2012, 02:08 PM
  #226
hockeymass
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
The odds are irrelevant when it happens to you. At that point all that matters is the one, just ask Berard or pronger or laperierre.
...that's exactly what I said. But a lot of people feel fine taking the cage off, because they're not constantly getting hit there like a goalie is. That was the point I was making.

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03-23-2012, 03:00 PM
  #227
Dustin Peener
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I remember playing a game of pick up hockey in the summer and one of my buddies wore his visor for the first time, and he got hit in the mouth, it was pretty ironic.

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03-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I don't know what the rule is in Canada but in the IIHF rules women have to wear a cage or fishbowl unless they were born before December 31st 1974, in which case they can wear a half visor.
and really that rule is crap. as much as I believe in the safety of wearing full facial protection I believe that if you're an adult MALE OR FEMALE you should be able to make the decision yourself. there shouldn't be different equipment rules for men and women.

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03-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #229
Dustin Peener
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They have different playing rules so why not?

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03-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
Well I used a visor until tonight's game where i took a shot to the mouth. 7 stitches and two teeth angled inward so I'll need to get tthat fixed tomorrow. Cage for the rest of my life
Sorry to hear of the misfortune.

A lot of guys only upgrade to a visor or cage after getting injured once. Those guys should just get the cages before they get hurt, instead of after, and save themself the money and agony.

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Old
03-27-2012, 09:25 AM
  #231
shoeshine boy
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
They have different playing rules so why not?
because they're all adults. it's pretty much just that simple.

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03-27-2012, 09:45 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by ean View Post
Sorry to hear of the misfortune.

A lot of guys only upgrade to a visor or cage after getting injured once. Those guys should just get the cages before they get hurt, instead of after, and save themself the money and agony.
They should, but they don't because everyone always looks at the odds of getting hurt and are sure that they won't be in the minority. As I posted before, the odds are irrelevant when you are the one getting hurt.

Most call me nuts for being a goalie, but I think anyone who doesn't wear a full cage is nuts. Freak accidents happen and it's mind boggling that anyone would risk major facial injuries while playing pickup or beer league hockey.

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03-27-2012, 10:52 AM
  #233
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The problem with cages that people don't think about is that it's an everyone or no one type situation - which is why cages are against the rules unless you have a medical reason at the NHL level.

The reason for this is that your cage is metal. And therefore it's hard. And if you run into another person you're going to really mess up their face if they're not wearing a cage. So basically, either everyone has to wear one, or no one should wear one...

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03-27-2012, 10:54 AM
  #234
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since we are talking about beer league hockey, how many of you have a few beers after a game and then drive home? I'd say that's way more risky then playing hockey without facial protection. ever have unprotected sex with someone you barely knew? again very dangerous. see where I'm going with this. many things in life are preventable. I personally do not enjoy playing hockey with a cage on. I realize the chance I may get hit in the mouth. But for me if I had to wear a cage because it was required, I probably would only play pond hockey. That's my choice. Have I been hit in the face? yup? is it the end of the world? nope. do what feels right for you as a player, but please stop with the criticism of those that choose not too.
end of rant.

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Old
03-27-2012, 12:38 PM
  #235
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It is not required in our league but a majority of the guys in the league wear full cages. I do as well. I used to play lacrosse so I was kind of used to the whole cage thing. I would say there is on average one guy on each team that doesn't wear some sort of cage. Hardly anyone wears visors its either cage or nothing.

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03-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #236
Dr Van Nostrand
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As for the cage-on-face hits,

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03-27-2012, 01:08 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
The problem with cages that people don't think about is that it's an everyone or no one type situation - which is why cages are against the rules unless you have a medical reason at the NHL level.
I haven't seen anything in the NHL rulebook that says full face shields are not permitted. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as far as I know there is no such rule.

Quote:
The reason for this is that your cage is metal. And therefore it's hard. And if you run into another person you're going to really mess up their face if they're not wearing a cage. So basically, either everyone has to wear one, or no one should wear one...
I've heard this argument before but I'm not sure I buy it.

Sticks are hard. Helmets are hard. Visors are hard. End caps on pads are hard. Pucks are hard. We've seen plenty of faces get messed up by all of those things.

The threat of a facial injury from someone else's cage isn't much more than the threat of injury from their helmet or visor.

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03-27-2012, 01:55 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by neksys View Post
I haven't seen anything in the NHL rulebook that says full face shields are not permitted. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as far as I know there is no such rule.
2011-12 Official NHL Rulebook

9.6 Dangerous Equipment - The use of pads or protectors made of metal, or of any other material likely to cause injury to a player, is prohibited. Referees have the authority to prohibit any equipment they feel may cause injury to any participants in the game. Failure to comply to the Refereesí instructions shall result in the assessment of a minor penalty for delay of game.
A mask or protector of a design approved by the League may be worn by a player who has sustained a facial injury.

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03-27-2012, 01:56 PM
  #239
Cowbell232
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Originally Posted by neksys View Post
I haven't seen anything in the NHL rulebook that says full face shields are not permitted. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as far as I know there is no such rule.



I've heard this argument before but I'm not sure I buy it.

Sticks are hard. Helmets are hard. Visors are hard. End caps on pads are hard. Pucks are hard. We've seen plenty of faces get messed up by all of those things.

The threat of a facial injury from someone else's cage isn't much more than the threat of injury from their helmet or visor.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26285

Section 5 (Equipment), Rule 9.6 (Dangerous Equipment):

"The use of pads or protectors made of metal, or of any other material likely to cause injury to a player, is prohibited." Blah, blah, blah... "A mask or protector of a design approved by the League may be worn by a player who has sustained a facial injury."

And there's some more bits and pieces in there. You cannot wear pad or protection made out of metal...You can only wear full face protection if you have a facial injury, or it's prescribed by a Club doctor and the opposing club then has the right to object.

And the threat of injury from a cage, which sticks out substantially further in more areas then a half-shield, and is made of less flexible metals, is much higher then visors, especially when incidental head-to-head contact is very common.

So, there ya have it

Edit: Nbr-17 got me by a minute while I was typing up my longer response! Nice.

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Old
03-27-2012, 02:25 PM
  #240
neksys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26285

Section 5 (Equipment), Rule 9.6 (Dangerous Equipment):
Huh, there you have it.

Still, I don't see the risk of injury as substantially (or even slightly) higher. I've never seen any real injuries from cages at the rec/beer league level, for example, where there is a mix of face protection. I do, however, see plenty of sticks, pucks and elbows in faces and eyes.

To be fair, its non-contact, but the number of accidental impacts is likely much higher than in the NHL as well.

Whenever I run into anything with my full cage, my head just turns.

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Old
03-27-2012, 02:39 PM
  #241
Stories
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Originally Posted by wwmcd24 View Post
As for the cage-on-face hits,
OMG. That looks like it'd be so painful.

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03-27-2012, 03:54 PM
  #242
Stickmata
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Most call me nuts for being a goalie, but I think anyone who doesn't wear a full cage is nuts. Freak accidents happen and it's mind boggling that anyone would risk major facial injuries while playing pickup or beer league hockey.
Please. You could say that about just about any sporting activity outside of competitive eating. The probability of having a major facial injury playing beer league hockey is ridiculously low. Yes it happens, but so do compound fractures on a football field or destroyed dental work from bad hops on a baseball infield or from elbows on a basketball court.

I've gone without a cage my whole life, ice and roller, and I've played with teams full of guys in half shields and I've yet to experience or even witness an incident even as serious as the loss of a tooth. It's a risk, but some of you guys seem to liken it to stepping in front of a speeding train.

You guys do know there's a country north of us that's been playing this game, largely without cages, for about a hundred years right? All the Canadian guys I've played with, most of whom are very good, life long players, play with a half shield and they still have all their teeth.

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03-27-2012, 04:22 PM
  #243
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I've seen a guy lose a tooth but for the most part it's been relatively injury free. See a lot more lower than upper body injuries.

At the NHL level, so many of those big time facial injuries come from blocking shots or deflecting shots into the face. In beer league, nobody drops to block and nobody has a hard enough shot to cause issues. So yeah the odds are much, much smaller.

I wouldn't call anyone names who chooses to wear a visor over cage. Or vice versa. It's personal preference. I prefer the cage not just for protection but I don't like the "bubble" effect of the visor and every time I HATE the fogging.

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03-27-2012, 09:51 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I've seen a guy lose a tooth but for the most part it's been relatively injury free. See a lot more lower than upper body injuries.

At the NHL level, so many of those big time facial injuries come from blocking shots or deflecting shots into the face. In beer league, nobody drops to block and nobody has a hard enough shot to cause issues. So yeah the odds are much, much smaller.

I wouldn't call anyone names who chooses to wear a visor over cage. Or vice versa. It's personal preference. I prefer the cage not just for protection but I don't like the "bubble" effect of the visor and every time I HATE the fogging.


This ^. I could never do the visor or fishbowl because fogging would drive me insane, plus the Bauer 9900 cage is not even noticeable when actually playing IMO. I actually notice that, since i started wearing a cage, i play more aggressively and am more willing to battle it out in the corners without fear of my face getting messed up.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:07 PM
  #245
Renbarg
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Please. You could say that about just about any sporting activity outside of competitive eating. The probability of having a major facial injury playing beer league hockey is ridiculously low. Yes it happens, but so do compound fractures on a football field or destroyed dental work from bad hops on a baseball infield or from elbows on a basketball court.

I've gone without a cage my whole life, ice and roller, and I've played with teams full of guys in half shields and I've yet to experience or even witness an incident even as serious as the loss of a tooth. It's a risk, but some of you guys seem to liken it to stepping in front of a speeding train.

You guys do know there's a country north of us that's been playing this game, largely without cages, for about a hundred years right? All the Canadian guys I've played with, most of whom are very good, life long players, play with a half shield and they still have all their teeth.
Just because someone has done it for a while doesn't make it smart. How long was hockey played before the first goalie wore a cage? How many years did it take for players to wear helmets?

The risk/reward ratio is terribly skewed for those choosing to not wear a cage for rec league. Whats the reward of going cage-less? You have better vision (I'd argue you get used to a cage mighty quick), and you look like a tough guy.

Nobody cares how tough you look and nobody cares how many goals or passes you make during a rec league game. You risk your teeth, eyes, nose for that? Come on.

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:08 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
In beer league, nobody drops to block and nobody has a hard enough shot to cause issues.
In this very thread I told the story of an acquaintance of mine who took a tipped shot up underneath his visor, which left him with a broken orbital bone and nose plus injury to his eyeball. He had surgery, and luckily regained the use of his eye.

And that was just in a pickup game, not even beer league.

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:56 PM
  #247
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I wear a cage because I don't trust others. Just with pickup, I have taken enough lackadaisical sticks to the cage from visor to not wear one. Add it the elbows in beer league and errant pucks and I am good with a cage.

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Old
03-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #248
Lonny Bohonos
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As someone who works in Health, Safety and Quality:

Risk is calculated as consequence x likelihood.

The consequence of eye damage is catastrophic.

The consequence of getting hit in the mouth is major/moderate.

The consequence of getting a skate cut to the neck is catastrophic.

And so on and so on.

For I can't understand the acceptance of risk in regards to your eyes. This goes for wearing eye protection when doing work around the house.

Many a player has been hit in the mouth and gone on to live normal lives and playing as they had before.

Few have been hit in the eye without some sort of long term consequence often impacting their playing.

Ask Malhotra.

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03-28-2012, 09:49 AM
  #249
Stickmata
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Just because someone has done it for a while doesn't make it smart. How long was hockey played before the first goalie wore a cage? How many years did it take for players to wear helmets?

The risk/reward ratio is terribly skewed for those choosing to not wear a cage for rec league. Whats the reward of going cage-less? You have better vision (I'd argue you get used to a cage mighty quick), and you look like a tough guy.

Nobody cares how tough you look and nobody cares how many goals or passes you make during a rec league game. You risk your teeth, eyes, nose for that? Come on.
And therein lies the flaw in your logic. You think we wear the half shield for looks. Looks have absolutely nothing to do with it. We do it because it is a huge difference in vision. Period. Some of us can't adjust to a cage.

And again, the risk is so minimal, it's ridiculous to even discuss. I've seen zero facial injuries on the ice but a number of blown knees. Should we all wear knee braces?

You guys seem to protest so much, I'm beginning to wonder if the hate stems from a little jealousy. Keep in mind, we don't care what you guys think or wear. Not sure why you guys care what we do.

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03-28-2012, 09:50 AM
  #250
Stickmata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
As someone who works in Health, Safety and Quality:

Risk is calculated as consequence x likelihood.

The consequence of eye damage is catastrophic.

The consequence of getting hit in the mouth is major/moderate.

The consequence of getting a skate cut to the neck is catastrophic.

And so on and so on.

For I can't understand the acceptance of risk in regards to your eyes. This goes for wearing eye protection when doing work around the house.

Many a player has been hit in the mouth and gone on to live normal lives and playing as they had before.

Few have been hit in the eye without some sort of long term consequence often impacting their playing.

Ask Malhotra.
You really might want to think twice about getting in your car this morning.

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