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McDonagh vs Subban

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have in your top four?
P.K. Subban 229 42.25%
Ryan McDonagh 313 57.75%
Voters: 542. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #301
capebretoncanadien
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Subban does things out there no other d-man in the league can do. Creativity galore on the offensive and defensive side of the puck.

McDonagh is solid but for lack of a better term vanilla.

Book it....Subban has a better career than McDonagh A-I-N-E-C

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03-27-2012, 10:00 PM
  #302
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Subban an 80-point player????? Maybe when he gets traded to the 1993 Penguins.

Macdonagh -- 6 goals on 114 shots
Subban -- 8 goals on 193 shots

Macdonagh -- 27 ES points
Subban -- 21 ES points

Mmmmmmmmm, yeah. I think I'll take the guy who actually knows how to defend and provide offense if necessary.

Thanks, Robert!!!!!!

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:08 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Subban an 80-point player????? Maybe when he gets traded to the 1993 Penguins.

Macdonagh -- 6 goals on 114 shots
Subban -- 8 goals on 193 shots

Macdonagh -- 27 ES points
Subban -- 21 ES points

Mmmmmmmmm, yeah. I think I'll take the guy who actually knows how to defend and provide offense if necessary.

Thanks, Robert!!!!!!
If you think for a second that Subban can't defend, you have no clue. It seems to be a huge misconception on HFBoards. He plays on the first pairing in Montreal and leads the team in TOI/G.

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03-27-2012, 10:14 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Subban an 80-point player????? Maybe when he gets traded to the 1993 Penguins.

Macdonagh -- 6 goals on 114 shots
Subban -- 8 goals on 193 shots

Macdonagh -- 27 ES points
Subban -- 21 ES points

Mmmmmmmmm, yeah. I think I'll take the guy who actually knows how to defend and provide offense if necessary.

Thanks, Robert!!!!!!
That argument is so meaningless I don't even know what to say. The number of points matter, not the number of goals/shots or the number of even strenght points. Jesus Christ, there are so many cherry pickers who are desperate to make McDonagh look better than Subban.

Here is a stat for you:

Subban: 8 goals, 35pts

McDonagh: 6 goals, 29pts

You can twist it all the ways you want. Subban has more points and is the better offensive player.

Here is a question for all you using the EV strenght pts argument. When judgin the best offensive team, do you not only look at the number of goals scored and how the team is made up? Or will you look at silly stats such as the team that scored the most EV strength goals and useless stats like that? Subban is better on offense and a step back from last year. If it wasn't for his slow start the first half of the season, he'd be close to if not above 45pts this year. Subban is better on offense, it's not that close either.

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03-27-2012, 10:19 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
That argument is so meaningless I don't even know what to say. The number of points matter, not the number of goals/shots or the number of even strenght points. Jesus Christ, there are so many cherry pickers who are desperate to make McDonagh look better than Subban.

Here is a stat for you:

Subban: 8 goals, 35pts

McDonagh: 6 goals, 29pts

You can twist it all the ways you want. Subban has more points and is the better offensive player.

Here is a question for all you using the EV strenght pts argument. When judgin the best offensive team, do you not only look at the number of goals scored and how the team is made up? Or will you look at silly stats such as the team that scored the most EV strength goals and useless stats like that? Subban is better on offense and a step back from last year. If it wasn't for his slow start the first half of the season, he'd be close to if not above 45pts this year. Subban is better on offense, it's not that close either.


If McDonagh had more points this year, he'd have more points this year!

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:21 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Bipolar View Post


If McDonagh had more points this year, he'd have more points this year!
Except Subban had 38pts in 76 games last year and had a terribly slow start. He found his game back in the second half. There is no reason to believe the first half represents his offensive talent because it obviously doesn't.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:24 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If you think for a second that Subban can't defend, you have no clue. It seems to be a huge misconception on HFBoards. He plays on the first pairing in Montreal and leads the team in TOI/G.
Thats nothing to write home about, nor does it give any indication of his defensive abilities.

The Habs havent played a meaningful game in months. Subban's picked up his play when the playoffs were pretty much an afterthought.

Macdonagh's a top-pairing dman on a team going for 50-plus wins and a President's trophy, and the 3rd lowest GAA in the league. Subban is a top-pairing d-man on the 20th best defense in the league.

Subban might have made improvements to his defensive game, but when your season is decided in February, I guess it's like having a 2nd training camp.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:26 PM
  #308
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There's no point to this thread anymore. No agreement will ever be reached.

I vote we lock it up... not trying to play mod, hope people agree here.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:31 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
That argument is so meaningless I don't even know what to say. The number of points matter, not the number of goals/shots or the number of even strenght points. Jesus Christ, there are so many cherry pickers who are desperate to make McDonagh look better than Subban.

Here is a stat for you:

Subban: 8 goals, 35pts

McDonagh: 6 goals, 29pts

You can twist it all the ways you want. Subban has more points and is the better offensive player.

Here is a question for all you using the EV strenght pts argument. When judgin the best offensive team, do you not only look at the number of goals scored and how the team is made up? Or will you look at silly stats such as the team that scored the most EV strength goals and useless stats like that? Subban is better on offense and a step back from last year. If it wasn't for his slow start the first half of the season, he'd be close to if not above 45pts this year. Subban is better on offense, it's not that close either.
It was in response to a Habs fan who said he was an elite offensive d-man with 80-point potential, while stating Macdonagh is not good offensively.

What Subban does isnt brain surgery....Get puck, shoot...get puck, shoot...get puck, shoot.

ES isnt a useless stat. It shows that a guy doesnt need a PP to put up points. When you consider overall PP time per game is the lowest around the NHL since the lockout, I would say ES points is certainly a meaningful stat.

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03-27-2012, 10:31 PM
  #310
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Only played 21 mins tonight, but he was controlling pace of the game. I suspect that the gap will widen between the two as both players mature.

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03-27-2012, 10:31 PM
  #311
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Love PK, but I have to go with McDonaugh

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:34 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capebretoncanadien View Post
Subban does things out there no other d-man in the league can do. Creativity galore on the offensive and defensive side of the puck.

McDonagh is solid but for lack of a better term vanilla.

Book it....Subban has a better career than McDonagh A-I-N-E-C
So McDonagh isn't as flashy stylistically. To say that makes Subban way better is ridiculous.

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Old
03-27-2012, 10:41 PM
  #313
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I still believe swithcing one for the other would have barely made a difference in the standings for either team. The Habs would still be 28th and the Rangers would still be 1st.

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03-27-2012, 10:42 PM
  #314
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I'd much rather have my boy PK. Love that fine young man.

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03-27-2012, 10:47 PM
  #315
capebretoncanadien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
So McDonagh isn't as flashy stylistically. To say that makes Subban way better is ridiculous.
I'm not saying it makes him way better right now though I do think he is better.

It's that extra style, hands, whatever you want to call it that in IMO will take Subban to a level that McDonagh cannot reach. He's really been stepping up his level in the last 20-30 games.

He might even hit level 9000 like Jaro Halak did one fine fine spring.

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03-27-2012, 10:53 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
So McDonagh isn't as flashy stylistically. To say that makes Subban way better is ridiculous.
Macdonagh is a tremendous open ice skater. He uses his speed when he needs to. That;s my whole point...Macdonagh can do both well...he just chooses to focus on his defense. That's why he's become one of the better defensive defensemen in the game.

Here are some more "cherry picked stats"

Macdonagh 174 blocked shots
Subban 104 blocked shots

Macdonagh 48 giveaways
Subban 80 giveaways

Macdonagh 43 takeaways
Subban 23 takeaways

Rangers 6th in the NHL in shots allowed
Montreal 13th in the NHL in shots allowed

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03-27-2012, 10:54 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
I still believe swithcing one for the other would have barely made a difference in the standings for either team. The Habs would still be 28th and the Rangers would still be 1st.
Of course not, this Rangers team is all about chemistry. I'm not going to act like I'm an expert or anything, but from what I hear, Subban isn't a very mature guy yet, so IDK if he'd work for the Rangers.

Remember, McDonagh is the top defenseman for arguably the best team in the NHL.

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03-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Macdonagh is a tremendous open ice skater. He uses his speed when he needs to. That;s my whole point...Macdonagh can do both well...he just chooses to focus on his defense. That's why he's become one of the better defensive defensemen in the game.

Here are some more "cherry picked stats"

Macdonagh 174 blocked shots
Subban 104 blocked shots

Macdonagh 48 giveaways
Subban 80 giveaways

Macdonagh 43 takeaways
Subban 23 takeaways

Rangers 6th in the NHL in shots allowed
Montreal 13th in the NHL in shots allowed
Subban anchor of number 1 pk in the nhl, the giveaway stats are garbage because players who control the puck like subban give it away more as a result, rather then smeone like Gorges who is similar to Mcd, has 50 more blocked shots, less giveaways and more takeaways.

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03-27-2012, 11:01 PM
  #319
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In five years I'll dig this up and laugh at the Habs fans. Just like I did at the "We won the Gomez trade" thread they had.

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03-27-2012, 11:02 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Victory View Post
In five years I'll dig this up and laugh at the Habs fans. Just like I did at the "We won the Gomez trade" thread they had.
Subban is was and always will be better. You could laugh if that makes you feel better though.

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Old
03-27-2012, 11:12 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Subban anchor of number 1 pk in the nhl, the giveaway stats are garbage because players who control the puck like subban give it away more as a result, rather then smeone like Gorges who is similar to Mcd, has 50 more blocked shots, less giveaways and more takeaways.
Yeah. No.

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03-27-2012, 11:15 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Subban anchor of number 1 pk in the nhl, the giveaway stats are garbage because players who control the puck like subban give it away more as a result, rather then smeone like Gorges who is similar to Mcd, has 50 more blocked shots, less giveaways and more takeaways.
Montreal is No. 2


www.nhl.com

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03-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Subban is was and always will be better. You could laugh if that makes you feel better though.
He certainly hasn't been this season. And i don't even know how that's a debate. The future, who knows, but this season, it's clearly McD and only a homer will argue otherwise.

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03-27-2012, 11:27 PM
  #324
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Why argue with Habs fans? They can be last by 40 points and still argue they're a good team.

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03-28-2012, 01:47 AM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Macdonagh is a tremendous open ice skater. He uses his speed when he needs to. That;s my whole point...Macdonagh can do both well...he just chooses to focus on his defense. That's why he's become one of the better defensive defensemen in the game.

Here are some more "cherry picked stats"

Macdonagh 174 blocked shots
Subban 104 blocked shots

Macdonagh 48 giveaways
Subban 80 giveaways

Macdonagh 43 takeaways
Subban 23 takeaways

Rangers 6th in the NHL in shots allowed
Montreal 13th in the NHL in shots allowed
As you can see McDonagh is only -5 in giveaway/takeaway ratio, which is absolutely remarkable for a defenseman who logs his kind of minutes.

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