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Marc Staal is he not what we think ?

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Old
03-28-2012, 01:36 AM
  #1
Dagoon44
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Marc Staal is he not what we think ?

I know the guy is coming off a major concussion and I still think there is or was a disc injury to the neck .. He thrives on ice time and was averaging like 24 mins when he was dominate but now he has been drastically reduced to playing as the 5th guy with stu Bickel. I love Staal but it appears to me he is lagging and totally not the same person he was before the injury .. I know he needs time to return to form but I think there is either more to it or is he in torts dog house ? Dave Maloney stated he felt Marc was a step behind and looked to be behind, so my question is with all we have in system at the position do we look to move him?

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03-28-2012, 01:40 AM
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IBleedNYRBlue
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Girardi
Del Zotto
Gaborik
....

Staal

Yup.

Those are all guys this fanbase wanted to trade because they were having an off year...now look at them. Not everyone can come back that season from a concussion and return to normal. A lot of times take an offseason. I am NOT for trading Staal at all. It's like a recurring theme on this forum.

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03-28-2012, 01:50 AM
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I put this in an earlier thread about Staal:
Quote:
Staal's offseason strength training regime is nuts. I read about it a few summers ago. He goes hard with cardio compound exercises, and kettle bells. I can't remember the trainer's name, but the guy is known for increasing explosiveness along with static strength and quickness, and has worked with quite a few NFLers.

During an NHL season there is literally no time to strength train. There's only a small period in between games, and that time is used for recovery. No weeks off to strength train and recover prior to game nights.

A big part of Staal's game the passed few season's is his athleticism. He just doesn't get out muscled ever, and the guy's a really solid skater on top of that. Right now we're seeing Staal just on natural talent alone. He wasn't lifting at all during his shutdown period, nor was he skating. Imagine not skating or training basically from prior to camp until now.

He's gifted with talent, but what makes his game a whole higher level is the way the guy is able to apply his power. He's been smooth skating and jumping into the play a lot lately. You couple that with a full offseason of strength training and skating and he's poised for a real breakout.

Keep in mind, his timing is still at late November/early December hockey… playing against people that have been playing all year. That would be off-set by him being rested, but I already covered why his body won't be where he likes it anyway.

Look up youtubes of Staal over the passed 2 seasons, and almost all his manhandling highlights are against Kovalchuk, Malkin, Crosby, and Ovechkin. All players that it takes a strong mix of power, awareness, timing, AND speed to shut down. It's easy to forget he really is THAT level of defender.
By not the player we thought he was, you mean the player that dominated one-vs-one against Malkin, Crosby, and AO regularly?







While highlight vids may not mean much over a long career, look at the majority of these clips. He's not hitting and winning battles vs Tangradi or some Isles scrubs. AO, Crosby, Malkin, E. Staal, Spezza, Kovalchuk, Tavares. The biggest pts getters in our conference over and over again.

Speed, power, good instincts at both ends, good stick, steps into players at the blue-line unlike a lot of our current guys. The guy's playing pretty damn good for having one of his major tools taken away for the season.

Edit: I would recommend muting the first video if you plan on enjoying it.


Last edited by SlingshotVv: 03-28-2012 at 02:10 AM.
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Old
03-28-2012, 01:54 AM
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KingWantsCup
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Marc Staal is who we thought he was....

That's why we took the damn rink!!!

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03-28-2012, 02:07 AM
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I will not judge Staal at all until he has a full offseason of recovery.

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03-28-2012, 02:09 AM
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Marc Staal is what I think he is- our best defensive d-man.

Give him an off-season and he'll be back to doing what Girardi did for half the season, except for its entirety.

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03-28-2012, 02:10 AM
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He'll be fine in the offseason. I like the pairs the way they were tonight. He'll get between 12-17 minutes a night which is fine. He's not 100% but as long as he can help to keep Girardi and McD's minutes to the lower 20s, it's a win.

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03-28-2012, 02:11 AM
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Another thread about Marc Staal's lack of dominance this year?

As everyone has mentioned, let the kid get an off-season of workouts and training camp under his belt before we pass judgment.

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03-28-2012, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I know the guy is coming off a major concussion and I still think there is or was a disc injury to the neck .. He thrives on ice time and was averaging like 24 mins when he was dominate but now he has been drastically reduced to playing as the 5th guy with stu Bickel. I love Staal but it appears to me he is lagging and totally not the same person he was before the injury .. I know he needs time to return to form but I think there is either more to it or is he in torts dog house ? Dave Maloney stated he felt Marc was a step behind and looked to be behind, so my question is with all we have in system at the position do we look to move him?
Is he not what we think?

That depends. Do you think he can return to form magically without the offseason training regime he goes through? If so, then no, he's not going to be what you think he is.

If you think he's someone who hasn't had what is required to fully recover from his injury, and thus will not be the same until next season, then yes, he is what you think he is.

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03-28-2012, 02:25 AM
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The Lone Ranger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Marc Staal is who we thought he was....

That's why we took the damn rink!!!
And we let him off the hook.

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Old
03-28-2012, 02:32 AM
  #11
Agentsmith
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seems like staal isnt 100% sure of himself out there right now. fumbling the puck too much def not himself. however he occasionally makes a play or two that makes you say wow ... thats marc staal. he's a player i give the benefit of the doubt to. as torts said prob wont be like himself this year. but heck id rather have him at 75% then woywitka, no?

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03-28-2012, 02:35 AM
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Girardi was always better than him.

Staal is a #2 or #3 on most teams. He is NOT a #1.

If you disagree, that is because his name isn't Marc Smith, he has 'Staal' heat. If you need confirmation of this, look at the Caps playoff series last year. He was horrendous.

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03-28-2012, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post



This just made me sad. Where is this guy???

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03-28-2012, 02:58 AM
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he's really batman???

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03-28-2012, 02:58 AM
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The part I miss most, aside from the fact that top players had so much difficulty with him, was where he made his hits. Girardi is excellent in the defensive zone, and McD shuts players into the boards all the time, but Staal stepped into players right at the blue-line. You didn't walk into our zone easily at all. There was no free offensive zone time for opposing top units. They had to actually make a good play to gain the zone at all. That's the one place that our current defense really could use improvement. His skating is so strong and he's so confident in his physical game that he would crush offense before it even got started.

Tonight was good, but far too many times we back too deep into our zone when we could be challenging at the line still.

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03-28-2012, 03:29 AM
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Zil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Girardi was always better than him.

Staal is a #2 or #3 on most teams. He is NOT a #1.

If you disagree, that is because his name isn't Marc Smith, he has 'Staal' heat. If you need confirmation of this, look at the Caps playoff series last year. He was horrendous.
Way to make a definitive statement, not back it up, and then insult the intelligence of anyone who might think otherwise. That settles it. I'm convinced.

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03-28-2012, 03:31 AM
  #17
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I expect Marc to rebound next year. He's not where he was and to insist he's our best d-man is off. To be honest I think McD is going to turn into our best defenseman--basically I see him and Marc when he's on the top of his game as equals in the defensive end but Ryan is better offensively right now and has some untapped potential still in that area. Girardi is close but all things being equal he's our 3rd guy but 1st pairing because he's our best right side guy.

For the balance of this season and the playoffs--Staal depending on how he's going is either 2nd pair or 3rd pair. Barring a major injury I don't see that changing and I'd think it would be nuts to give him the kind of ice time that Girardi and McDonagh have been seeing all year. i don't think he could handle it right now.

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03-28-2012, 03:53 AM
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mrjimmyg89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
This just made me sad. Where is this guy???
He's still there, just not on his game and with good reason. Missing the amount of time he did will make a player less likely to play as well as he can. I want to see Staal getting his normal offseason workout plan and see how he plays going into next season.

Obviously we know he couldn't do that this offseason and it could be showing in his play. He had a nice stretch but now he's just not playing where he can and it's likely we might not see that guy who was even playing well early this season in the playoffs. Let's back off the guy, be happy he's been playing healthy and gaining confidence that he won't get hurt again. Every time he steps onto the ice this season he's getting more and more confident in himself being able to stay healthy.

If he can come back next season and be like his old self, this team can and will be scary good on defense.

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03-28-2012, 03:54 AM
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BlueshirtBlitz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Girardi was always better than him.

Staal is a #2 or #3 on most teams. He is NOT a #1.

If you disagree, that is because his name isn't Marc Smith, he has 'Staal' heat. If you need confirmation of this, look at the Caps playoff series last year. He was horrendous.
The worst part is you don't even know how off base you are.

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03-28-2012, 05:53 AM
  #20
Cynical TyranT
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Anybody actually questioning.... well.. ANYTHING about him... be it his skill, talent, determination... whatever... the fact this is being brought up at ALL is a total load of crap. Guy's been the clear cut number one on a damn fine defensive team for years now... and the ONE time he gets his god damn brain mushed in and people have the balls to question anything other than his HEALTH???????

- well that makes it a pretty sad day... either a sad day for the intelligence of this board... of rangers fans... of NHL fans... or of people altogether.

Get a grip.

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Old
03-28-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I will not judge Staal at all until he has a full offseason of recovery.
I'm with this guy.

The fact is, while he has come back to play this year, with that significant gap in training on all levels, most players games fall off a bit.

You have the odd ones like a Sid that can come back and still do the things he was doing pre-injury, but when you make your bones based on hard work and overall strength, missing the amount of time Staal missed saps a player of his strength.

After playing this season from 01/01/12 on, and getting a full off season fo training everything this summer, I will expect last years Staal to start the 2012-13 season.

He will be fine.

THAT said.

Ducks come to me with Ryan for Staal straight up? Buh-bye Staalsy

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Old
03-28-2012, 06:53 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Girardi was always better than him.

Staal is a #2 or #3 on most teams. He is NOT a #1.

If you disagree, that is because his name isn't Marc Smith, he has 'Staal' heat. If you need confirmation of this, look at the Caps playoff series last year. He was horrendous.
You do realize he was playing through a concussion from late February through, right?

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Old
03-28-2012, 07:31 AM
  #23
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It would be pretty dumb to make a "final" judgment about him before next April. He needs a full off-season of strength and conditioning, as most profesional athletes do.

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Old
03-28-2012, 07:40 AM
  #24
SupersonicMonkey*
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He had:

-No summer training.
-No training camp.
-Been inactive for more than 6 months.
-One month of workouts and practice before playing mid-season.
-No time to build muscle strength.
-No time, no pre-season to get into game shape.
-No time to add the weight he'd inevitably lose during the season.

No duh he's not what he was last year. He WILL be next season when he has a full summer to train, has a full training camp, and a full pre-season to get into game shape.

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03-28-2012, 07:56 AM
  #25
KingWantsCup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJUMPER View Post
Girardi was always better than him.

Staal is a #2 or #3 on most teams. He is NOT a #1.

If you disagree, that is because his name isn't Marc Smith, he has 'Staal' heat. If you need confirmation of this, look at the Caps playoff series last year. He was horrendous.
Girardi was nowhere near this good ever before. Staal played pretty well in that series considering he was concussed at the time. Staal has been getting attacked since January because he isn't 100% back to form, which is absurd and unfair.

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