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McDonagh vs Subban

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have in your top four?
P.K. Subban 229 42.25%
Ryan McDonagh 313 57.75%
Voters: 542. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-28-2012, 07:53 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
There's no point to this thread anymore. No agreement will ever be reached.

I vote we lock it up... not trying to play mod, hope people agree here.
Except you are trying to play mod. People like you are so childish and arrogant. It's a friggin thread; this isn't a junior high political science class. Good grief, just let the mods do what they necessary, mkay? Sheesh.

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03-28-2012, 07:56 AM
  #327
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I'm shocked that MCD is getting the recognition he deserves over a big name D-man. I really feel like most people aren't very aware of him, or how good he is. I guess I was wrong on both accounts.

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03-28-2012, 08:00 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Except you are trying to play mod. People like you are so childish and arrogant. It's a friggin thread; this isn't a junior high political science class. Good grief, just let the mods do what they necessary, mkay? Sheesh.
Are you always this childish? This thread is nothing more then Rangers fans patting themselves on the back, it's ran its course. Maybe Habs fans should bump it too every time Subban gets a point in a game and pretend he's Jesus Christ on skates?

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03-28-2012, 08:15 AM
  #329
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McD because he isn't a A$$ like PK, slew footing s.o.b...

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03-28-2012, 08:22 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Are you always this childish? This thread is nothing more then Rangers fans patting themselves on the back, it's ran its course. Maybe Habs fans should bump it too every time Subban gets a point in a game and pretend he's Jesus Christ on skates?
isn't that what they already do?

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03-28-2012, 08:31 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
It was in response to a Habs fan who said he was an elite offensive d-man with 80-point potential, while stating Macdonagh is not good offensively.

What Subban does isnt brain surgery....Get puck, shoot...get puck, shoot...get puck, shoot.

ES isnt a useless stat. It shows that a guy doesnt need a PP to put up points. When you consider overall PP time per game is the lowest around the NHL since the lockout, I would say ES points is certainly a meaningful stat.
No matter the fan base, if someone claims taht a d-man has a 80 points per season potential, ignore him/her.

But it's two posts of yours that I quote which clearly show that you have no clue of what you're talking about when talking about Subban. You can praize McDonagh all you want, it's fair, but the way you try downplaying Subban is ridiculous as your points are simply false and full of air.

McDonagh is a safer player, no one in their right mind would deny that. Subban is a high risk, high reward player but he does a hell of a lot more than what you're describing. He has game breaking abilities as at any point, he can rush the puck and score or set-up that winning goal and that, whether it's at even strength or on the PP. Opposing players better keep their head up when Subban is on the ice as he'll crush you. Defensively, he is sound. Yes, he will turn the puck over once in a while but most times, he'll be the one hustling and fixing his own mistakes.

In my opinion, McDonagh is a good defenseman but Subban is and will be better down the line.

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03-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
In my opinion, McDonagh is a good defenseman but Subban is and will be better down the line.
I need to watch Subban more, but man, McDonagh is showing glimpses that he could become an almost franchise level defenseman. His ability to read the play and make the right decision is extremely good, and he's jumping up into the play at the right time more and more often. In addition to that, his one on one defense is excellent, and his overall defense is very good.

Things keeping him from being top level elite at the moment would be: he could sometimes do a little better with the puck in his own end. Mainly just that he could sometimes make a better play than sling it around the boards (not that he does that all the time), but I think that's something that will come with some time. And his shot could use improvement. Not even necessarily his slap shot, which is pretty good, but just overall getting it off, making himself more of a threat when he carries the puck into the zone or makes a move at the blueline to shake a guy and get open.

Subban already has that dynamic ability McDonagh is trying to add but probably isn't as reliable. I tend to think that Subban will always be more of a scoring threat, but they should both be great players in their own way

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03-28-2012, 10:32 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I need to watch Subban more, but man, McDonagh is showing glimpses that he could become an almost franchise level defenseman. His ability to read the play and make the right decision is extremely good, and he's jumping up into the play at the right time more and more often. In addition to that, his one on one defense is excellent, and his overall defense is very good.

Things keeping him from being top level elite at the moment would be: he could sometimes do a little better with the puck in his own end. Mainly just that he could sometimes make a better play than sling it around the boards (not that he does that all the time), but I think that's something that will come with some time. And his shot could use improvement. Not even necessarily his slap shot, which is pretty good, but just overall getting it off, making himself more of a threat when he carries the puck into the zone or makes a move at the blueline to shake a guy and get open.

Subban already has that dynamic ability McDonagh is trying to add but probably isn't as reliable. I tend to think that Subban will always be more of a scoring threat, but they should both be great players in their own way
Best NYR fan post BY FAR in this thread. You bring the most level-headed assessment on this debate from a McD fan perspective. Gives a glimpse of hope of how a bickering-free poll discussion could look like.

And to think you're the only one who have admitted the part in bold... I'm almost certain you know more about Subban than most of your fellow fans in here.

And going back to Subban (with yet again another dominating performance last night on an otherwise sub-par team performance, how surprising!), it's getting ridiculous how he can simply humiliate the opposition. At some point teams will stop sending a man on the forecheck against him. His skating agility coupled with his stellar ability to protect the puck enables him to dispose of anyone who pursues him in such an astonishing way. I don't think I've seen that kind of skating & puck control from the back-end in almost 30 years of watching Habs hockey.

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03-28-2012, 01:02 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Are you always this childish? This thread is nothing more then Rangers fans patting themselves on the back, it's ran its course. Maybe Habs fans should bump it too every time Subban gets a point in a game and pretend he's Jesus Christ on skates?
I just have this absolute disdain for people that go on forums and try to play God themselves. You are not a moderator. If they see fit, I'm sure they will put the kaboosh to it when necessary.

I'm not trying to start anything at all but if people want to discuss, why don't you just "unsubscribe" or just look away and let them post their thoughts? Simple.

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03-28-2012, 01:14 PM
  #335
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I really like McDonagh,

But Subban shouldn't be losing this poll .

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03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
They play the entire powerplay because you don't have other options. Richards on the point speaks volumes about your defense. Del Zotto is the only offensive defenseman you have, the rest are mostly stay-at-home types. If I'm bad, you're terrible at this. Especially since you think Wayde Simmonds is "arguably" better than Subban. That's all I need to know about your opinion really.
As a Devils fan, this made me lol. Stop talking about that which you do not know.

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Originally Posted by habscup View Post
Subban anchor of number 1 pk in the nhl, the giveaway stats are garbage because players who control the puck like subban give it away more as a result, rather then smeone like Gorges who is similar to Mcd, has 50 more blocked shots, less giveaways and more takeaways.
Welcome to #2

Give me McD over Subban, please and thank you.

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03-28-2012, 01:27 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Best NYR fan post BY FAR in this thread. You bring the most level-headed assessment on this debate from a McD fan perspective. Gives a glimpse of hope of how a bickering-free poll discussion could look like.

And to think you're the only one who have admitted the part in bold... I'm almost certain you know more about Subban than most of your fellow fans in here.

And going back to Subban (with yet again another dominating performance last night on an otherwise sub-par team performance, how surprising!), it's getting ridiculous how he can simply humiliate the opposition. At some point teams will stop sending a man on the forecheck against him. His skating agility coupled with his stellar ability to protect the puck enables him to dispose of anyone who pursues him in such an astonishing way. I don't think I've seen that kind of skating & puck control from the back-end in almost 30 years of watching Habs hockey.
As opposed to the Montreal fans who act like they know everything about McD?

Let's not act like this is one-sided here.

In terms of value right now the players are very near each other and i think it's ridiculous for either side to argue one over the other.

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03-28-2012, 01:30 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I really like McDonagh,

But Subban shouldn't be losing this poll .
And why is that. They have both played relatively the same amount and McD has clearly been the better d-man this season.

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03-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
I just have this absolute disdain for people that go on forums and try to play God themselves. You are not a moderator. If they see fit, I'm sure they will put the kaboosh to it when necessary.

I'm not trying to start anything at all but if people want to discuss, why don't you just "unsubscribe" or just look away and let them post their thoughts? Simple.
Thing is, while I don't personally like the tone of my fellow Habs fan here, NYR fans aren't really discussing in this thread. They are praising McD, which is fine because he's really, really good. But the arguments articulated against Subban (not specifically by you) display a total lack of knowledge about his game. Therefore, it just tells me most NYR fans argue over McD's superiority based on Subban's HF discourse rather than actual level-headed observation.

McD has been in the Habs system for 3 full years, and I'm sure many Habs fans have continued watching him closely (as myself) because how highly Timmins initially advertised him when he got drafted. So basically, I think there are more Habs fans (not all, obviously) who have a far more legit assessment of McD's game than the opposite. Add to that the fact so many people hate Subban in an awkward passionate kind of way, and you have the right ingredients for a discussion that brings a very scarce amount of valid arguing.

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03-28-2012, 01:39 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
As opposed to the Montreal fans who act like they know everything about McD?

Let's not act like this is one-sided here.

In terms of value right now the players are very near each other and i think it's ridiculous for either side to argue one over the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
And why is that. They have both played relatively the same amount and McD has clearly been the better d-man this season.
Way to contradict yourself in such an obvious way.

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03-28-2012, 01:51 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Thing is, while I don't personally like the tone of my fellow Habs fan here, NYR fans aren't really discussing in this thread. They are praising McD, which is fine because he's really, really good. But the arguments articulated against Subban (not specifically by you) display a total lack of knowledge about his game. Therefore, it just tells me most NYR fans argue over McD's superiority based on Subban's HF discourse rather than actual level-headed observation.

McD has been in the Habs system for 3 full years, and I'm sure many Habs fans have continued watching him closely (as myself) because how highly Timmins initially advertised him when he got drafted. So basically, I think there are more Habs fans (not all, obviously) who have a far more legit assessment of McD's game than the opposite. Add to that the fact so many people hate Subban in an awkward passionate kind of way, and you have the right ingredients for a discussion that brings a very scarce amount of valid arguing.
I don't believe this for one second. People who might watch McD now and then probably won't be impressed, you really have to watch him every game to realize how steady and skilled he is.

He made a pass on the game winning goal last night that was commanding. And this isn't uncommon for him. Kid is not only as steady as they come but he is extremely smart as well and rarely does anything stupid.

I don't care if he was in the system, i highly doubt people are following McD on a regular basis. Maybe stat-watching but for a d-man like McD that means very little and truly shows why so many Habs fans feel the way they do.

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03-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  #342
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Way to contradict yourself in such an obvious way.
I didn't contradict myself at all. It is impossible to tell who is the better d-man because Subban had an excellent season last year and McD only played half the year.

I just find it ridiculous that anyone can say subban is so CLEARLY better when it is clear that McD has been better overall THIS season.

So no, not contradiction, in fact, they go hand in hand. But i realize selective reading may have given you the wrong idea.

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03-28-2012, 01:53 PM
  #343
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I'd take McDonagh

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03-28-2012, 01:56 PM
  #344
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"Anchors the #2 PK"

McDonagh anchors the #2 TEAM.

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03-28-2012, 02:10 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
"Anchors the #2 PK"

McDonagh anchors the #2 TEAM.
It's incredible how you took that totally out of context and decided to make an argument out of it, wow.

And McDonagh doesn't anchor anything, look up the meaning of that word and get back to me. He's got Girardi who's just as good defensively and Del Zotto carrying to load on offense.

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03-28-2012, 02:12 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
I didn't contradict myself at all. It is impossible to tell who is the better d-man because Subban had an excellent season last year and McD only played half the year.

I just find it ridiculous that anyone can say subban is so CLEARLY better when it is clear that McD has been better overall THIS season.

So no, not contradiction, in fact, they go hand in hand. But i realize selective reading may have given you the wrong idea.
How exactly am I doing selective reading? I'm basically pointing out the obvious. You said it's ridiculous to argue one is clearly better than the other, then you go on and say one is clearly better than the other.

Nobody is clearly above the other based on both this season and the previous one. The Rangers are lights out this year, so this can be argued in McD's favour – he's the best D on one of the League's best team – or to his disfavour – NYR have a much, much better and deeper D-corps this year, which gives McD some good reliable support.

If we agree that Gorges is Girardi's equivalent this year, albeit not as successful, then you have to realize Subban has to pretty much fill the role of both McDonagh and Del Zotto. It's fine, because it fits well with his all-around upside, but it sure is a ton of workload for such a youngster!

I don't think this debate can go anywhere until we wait and see how it unfolds in the next couple of years.

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03-28-2012, 02:18 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
How exactly am I doing selective reading? I'm basically pointing out the obvious. You said it's ridiculous to argue one is clearly better than the other, then you go on and say one is clearly better than the other.

Nobody is clearly above the other based on both this season and the previous one. The Rangers are lights out this year, so this can be argued in McD's favour – he's the best D on one of the League's best team – or to his disfavour – NYR have a much, much better and deeper D-corps this year, which gives McD some good reliable support.

If we agree that Gorges is Girardi's equivalent this year, albeit not as successful, then you have to realize Subban has to pretty much fill the role of both McDonagh and Del Zotto. It's fine, because it fits well with his all-around upside, but it sure is a ton of workload for such a youngster!

I don't think this debate can go anywhere until we wait and see how it unfolds in the next couple of years.
I'm not saying one is CLEARLY better than the other in the overall sense. I'm saying THIS SEASON, McD has been the better d-man.

Maybe you're just misunderstanding rather than choosing to selectively read. Because no, I don't think one is better than the other. But i do think McD has been better THIS YEAR. Which i think most non-biased people would agree.

Maybe Subban has more responsibility, but honestly, I find that hard to believe considering McD logs just as much ice time on a team that is MUCH more competitive.

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03-28-2012, 02:20 PM
  #348
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I don't believe this for one second. People who might watch McD now and then probably won't be impressed, you really have to watch him every game to realize how steady and skilled he is.

He made a pass on the game winning goal last night that was commanding. And this isn't uncommon for him. Kid is not only as steady as they come but he is extremely smart as well and rarely does anything stupid.

I don't care if he was in the system, i highly doubt people are following McD on a regular basis. Maybe stat-watching but for a d-man like McD that means very little and truly shows why so many Habs fans feel the way they do.
But did you yourself actually watched Subban recently? He's often the best player on both teams. He's been dominating for almost two months now. What I'd like to see is him doing this over the course of a full season, which has yet to happen in his very young career. So anybody arguing this aspect I won't oppose to it.

But the upside when he's "on", I don't think many D-men in this League, McD included, can rival with him. Whether or not he's able to translate this consistently into his game as he approaches his prime years, we'll have to see. I agree it's debatable. But that's nowhere near the type of arguing against Subban that I've seen from you or most NYR fans in this thread so far. So it just ends up transpiring as uninformed opinions. And whether you like it or not, the fact McD has been in the Habs organization longer than he's been a Ranger does give some Habs fans a slight edge in terms of comparing both talents.

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03-28-2012, 02:25 PM
  #349
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This is like comparing Josh Gorges to Subban... not the same type at all...

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03-28-2012, 02:28 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
I'm not saying one is CLEARLY better than the other in the overall sense. I'm saying THIS SEASON, McD has been the better d-man.

Maybe you're just misunderstanding rather than choosing to selectively read. Because no, I don't think one is better than the other. But i do think McD has been better THIS YEAR. Which i think most non-biased people would agree.

Maybe Subban has more responsibility, but honestly, I find that hard to believe considering McD logs just as much ice time on a team that is MUCH more competitive.
I don't think this is invalid, but when you look at the leader board for TOI/G, there is one huge discrepancy between Subban and McD: Gorges is #51 while Girardi is #4. I'm not disputing the fact the NYR are having a stellar year but to me, the team's success is not so much because of their so-called #1 anchor but rather the insane amount of quality depth and great coaching. I don't think any team in this League has a better bottom-six. Maybe McD is the one guy that glues everyone together, but I see so many other key contributors on this team that it's hard for me to allow all this merit you guys are so adamantly giving him.

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