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Old
03-28-2012, 08:32 AM
  #26
KuleminFan41
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Burke is a blow hard idiot. All bark but no bite just like this team. I get a kick knowing the other GM's getting a good laugh on old Burkey.
I'm sure the teams he beat to get his stanley cup sure are laughing quite hard huh? Lemme guess they dont count because the team was already there when he got there right?

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:43 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
I'm sure the teams he beat to get his stanley cup sure are laughing quite hard huh? Lemme guess they dont count because the team was already there when he got there right?
Who gives a rats ass what Burke did in Anaheim it has nothing to do with his job performance here for our team.

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03-28-2012, 08:44 AM
  #28
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Wait, hold on... I agree with Cox? Someone check hell for icicles.

In all seriousness, we are improved as a team over the 2008 team Burke inherited. The results are about the same, I admit, but we have a lot more upside.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but let's compare lines:

Poni - Antropov - Blake
vs.
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel

upgrades on the wings, as far as centre, I'd still take Antropov over Bozak. Overall advantage: 2012 Leafs

Kulemin - Grabo - Steen
vs.
MacCarthur - Grabo - Kulemin

Is Mac an upgrade over Steen? Perhaps. I'm gonna call it even.

Hagman - Stajan - Mitchell
vs.
Lombardi - Connolly - Armstrong/Crabb

As much of a disappointment Connolly has been, and as much as Armstrong has been injured, I'd still say that's a slight improvement over our 2008 third line

Hollweg - Moore - Mayers
vs.
Brown - Steckel - Crabb/Ashton/<insert call up here>

I don't think there's any contest here, our current 4th line is much better, if only for Steckel's faceoff prowess

D pairings:
Kaberle - Kubina
Van Ryn - Schenn
Stralman - Finger

vs.

Phaneuf - Komi
Liles - Gunnarson
Gardiner - Schenn

No contest. Our defense is much better.

This is all on paper, though. That hasn't translated into results. I think some blame can be placed at both the GM and Coaches doors for that:

1) Coaches haven't been able to get the best out of their players. Wilson had the run-and-gun approach working for a while, but other teams figured them out, and the Leafs couldn't adapt
2) This team is lacking some leadership. I have faith that Phaneuf has the potential to be that leader, but he's not there yet. Think of great team leaders on the following teams:

1993 - Gilmour, Andreychuk, Clark, Anderson
1999 - Sundin, Thomas, Joseph
2002 - Sundin, Roberts, Joseph, Corson (to a lesser extent)

I just think of the above guys as character guys. Guys who basically picked up the team and carried them through stretches... Those are the guys we need nowadays. But those are the guys that come with heavy prices.

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:46 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JesseV87 View Post
How can this moron say one week that we have to trade Kessel and then the next week say we need to stay the course?
This is exactly what I thought when I read the headline. I was just like "Are you f**ing kidding me?"

But it's Toronto, and unless something groundbreaking is happening, you just write down some meaningless words on the front of the sport section about the Leafs.


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Originally Posted by KingBuzzo View Post
Wow, I agree with Damien Cox, aside from the whole "retarded" word of choice talking about Percy and his concussion problems, but I agree with him. Trading the first rounder this year would be a mistake and would reek of desperation for a playoff stint.

His use of "retarded" is both technically and politically correct in this instance - he's just saying that Percy's development has been potentially slowed by concussions.

Though I agree, it's one of those words that you're probably better off just avoiding these days, as it's frequently misunderstood, misassociated, or just plain disliked. My advice to any writers in this instance is to stop trying to sound academic and just say "his progress has been slowed".

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:56 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CoolBlue View Post
I don't have a puppy or a parrott so i don't have any use for Damian Cox's articles.

But from what i can gather from this thread Northern Dancer is still drinking the Kool-Aid after 45 years and Damian Cox has a hardon for an aging washed up NHL GM.
Nice Burkie quote above re parrot etc. Glad to see he is having a positive affect on you.

You can call it drinking the kool-aid if that makes you all warm an fuzzy. I call it being very objective.

Its always nice to see when one is weak, they always attack the poster and not the post.

Typical response, congrats.

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Old
03-28-2012, 08:57 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post

We had it, I mean had it, we were comfortably in a playoff spot in Februrary, with hopes of jumping to home ice advantage.

Then, the wheels fell off...completely off.

I think the best course of action is looking at WHY this drought started and why it continued.
This team entered a slump which was pretty bad but other much better teams had endured similiar slumps. I believe San Jose and Chicago had some good losing streaks.

People have merged a bad slump and a coaching change into one epic failure of a slump.

It was a terrible ****** slump but one has to distinguish that from the coaching change.

A coaching cahnge can either lead to good things initially and poor things initially.

We had the later. HAd this team continued with Wilson we woudl not be in the place we are today. We likely woudl have missed the playoffs but would still be in the hunt.

We had a coaching change and entire hockey philosophy change which magnified the hardships and now it has fallen onto a improperly built team rather than a team in the midst of a serious change!

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:03 AM
  #32
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Good read.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:05 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
The problem with staying the course is that Burke never set course for a rebuild. That's why most fans including myself are confused as to what the actual course is. I'm all for the tank but you don't trade your first round picks if you are. Burke strayed from the course almost immediately when he made the Kessel deal. Now four years later he's going to get back on course?
I never did understand how trading for a 22 year old with three seasons of experience constituted going away from a rebuild.

And if the confusion existed because of that, last season's trades getting two first round picks and specifically targeting Gardiner in a trade should have made it pretty clear what Burke's intentions were.

And Burke won't trade his first round pick. I don't get how anyone thinks he would. There have only been three times when he traded his first round picks. For Linden, Pronger and Kessel. There is nothing to suggest that he's going to trade it away now, when the team has arguably the biggest need for it.

It's actually sort of moronic to think he would trade away th epick.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:07 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Burkie doesn't need to do too much this offseason. Leafs were a playoff team for 90% of the season.
90% of 82 = 74. So the Leafs were a playoff team up until they faced New Jersey last Friday?

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:09 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Burkie doesn't need to do too much this offseason. Leafs were a playoff team for 90% of the season. So the 2nd youngest team in the NHL collapsed in a market with the highest pressure? Big surprise.

All he needs to do is solidify his goaltending. Get rid of as many members of LACK as he can. and add some toughness to the forward group.

We'll be fine.
I agree. I think BB needs to do two main things this summer:

1. Get rid of Lombardi, Komo and Armstrong. Free's up 11 million in cap space and allows him to promote some youngsters from the Marlies. Marlies have 7-8 potential new players coming from junior this fall.

2. Add some grit and toughness to the lineup. Doesnt have to spend a ton of money, but needs to go and get some bottom six forwards who will make this team tougher to play against.

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03-28-2012, 09:11 AM
  #36
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I agree completely with his point.

But the reality is that guys like Cox will write an article like this one, and then write about how the Leafs are not making the playoffs, could have made changes but didn't.

So really, guys like him are a dime a dozen.

But to the point about the draft pick, I'm about 95% positive that at the season ending presser, Burke is going to say the pick is in play - and Burke won't make it to the draft table this year.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:12 AM
  #37
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March 14 - http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...on-phil-kessel

March 28 - http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...tay-the-course

Am I going crazy? Or is Cox? What kind of idiot doesn't see exactly what is going on here?

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:12 AM
  #38
dirk41
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
There was this assumption, apparently, that when Brian Burke arrived three years and four months ago, not only would he make it happen, he would make it happen with dazzling speed and without making some pretty messy errors along the way.?
Burke is to blame for both his words and actions here. He claimed he was doing a "re-tool" and not a five-year rebuild. He traded two first round draft picks for immediate help and boldly proclaimed, after a few months on the job, that the Leafs had one of the three or four defenses (as in defense men) in the league.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:12 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Cox is rediculous. He plays the feild whichever way gets people reading. He appeals to the masses. One week the team is in shambles and is a disaster. The next week we need to trade Phill Kessel. Then once all is said and done and hes milked all he can out of this teams fans personally driving them through the roller coaster, he says "BURKE NEEDS TO STAY THE COURSE".
He is flippant & this was his message last week.

If Cox was in charge no chance he'd be staying the course.

Just hope the media & the fan base doesn't run Burkie out of town.

I think he still has a lot to offer, despite his imperfections, his state of the union address at season end press conference will be very very interesting to say the least.

This will illustrate just how accountable he really is.

Personally, the only thing about this team that really worries me now is the leadership.

Phaneuf's dressing room deadpan has me really concerned... dunno if he's the guy.

He seems a bit thick in the head - anyone else or just me?

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:15 AM
  #40
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I agree with the article and it makes some very good points(especially the Sather comparison) but I think Cox accidently submitted it 4 days early.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:15 AM
  #41
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He might be thick in the head, but I doubt he thinks every single sentences deserves to be its own paragraph.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:18 AM
  #42
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AMAZING! well said, i can agree with 100% of this article. Stop jumping on the "fire burke" wagon. Burke is hear to stay.
Its not like the person that comes after burke will be any better then him, hes the best!

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:19 AM
  #43
Stringer Bell
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That article reads like he thinks Leaf fans were expecting the Cup or to be Cup contenders this season. That's not true. We expected to make the playoffs. And in a league where over 50% of the teams make the playoffs every single year, it's hardly foolish to expect that after three years of him being GM.

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03-28-2012, 09:20 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
Burke is to blame for both his words and actions here. He claimed he was doing a "re-tool" and not a five-year rebuild. He traded two first round draft picks for immediate help and boldly proclaimed, after a few months on the job, that the Leafs had one of the three or four defenses (as in defense men) in the league.
Yes Burke has a big mouth and has said a lot of things that will haunt him. Having said that i agree with Cox's article and I am as most know not a Cox fan. I am very aware he last week suggested trading Kessel. I just think he put together a pretty good read this time. I am sure this time next week he will be writing about wanting to trade for Nash. But lets just dwell on this while it lasts.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:22 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Stringer Bell View Post
That article reads like he thinks Leaf fans were expecting the Cup or to be Cup contenders this season. That's not true. We expected to make the playoffs. And in a league where over 50% of the teams make the playoffs every single year, it's hardly foolish to expect that after three years of him being GM.
YOU expected! Not WE! I didn't expect playoffs as a certainty!

Not everyone bought into the hype and believed this team was an easy playoff team! I expected to battle all season and be in a playoff run just like we were! I figured playoffs at best were 50/50

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:27 AM
  #46
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We need 2 more years to see everything we have.

Look at some forecaster potentials....

Joe Colborne... Big, versatile forward with good upside.
Nazem Kadri... Skilled scoring forward with good upside.
Ben Scrivens... Big goaltender with some upside.
Jussi Rynnas... [Nothing written yet]
Jesse Blacker... [Nothing written yet]
Stuart Percy... [Nothing written yet]
Simon Gysbers... [Nothing written yet]
Juraj Mikus.... Depth defenseman. Can be a factor on the power play.
Korbinian Holzer... Physical defenseman with some upside.
Jake Gardiner... Mobile puck-moving defenseman with good upside.
Greg Mckegg... [Nothing written yet]
Tyler Biggs... [Nothing written yet]
Matt Frattin.... Speedy winger with some upside.
Brad Ross... [Nothing written yet]
Marcel Mueller... Big winger with some upside.
Jerry D'Amigo... Speedy winger with upside.
Carter Ashton... Power forward with good upside.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:28 AM
  #47
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This article rings true to me...

This failure does not mean the ultimate goal is impossible...

Leafs need to cash in on this draft!

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:30 AM
  #48
Stringer Bell
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
YOU expected! Not WE! I didn't expect playoffs as a certainty!

Not everyone bought into the hype and believed this team was an easy playoff team! I expected to battle all season and be in a playoff run just like we were! I figured playoffs at best were 50/50
Fair enough. That's how I felt too, that's not exactly what I meant. Disregarding what's on paper, three years into his GM tenure, in a league where 16 teams make it every year - Burke should have put something together to have been one of 16 teams. Anything else is a collossal failure.

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Old
03-28-2012, 09:33 AM
  #49
Leafsman
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Originally Posted by Stringer Bell View Post
Fair enough. That's how I felt too, that's not exactly what I meant. Disregarding what's on paper, three years into his GM tenure, in a league where 16 teams make it every year - Burke should have put something together to have been one of 16 teams. Anything else is a collossal failure.
I also never considered not making the playoffs a failure either! I consider it part of the process! Things were always going to get worse before they got better! I was on board for the restructuring of this team and ain't going to start *****ing and moaning now cause things got tough!

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03-28-2012, 09:36 AM
  #50
Stringer Bell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
We need 2 more years to see everything we have.

Look at some forecaster potentials....

Joe Colborne... Big, versatile forward with good upside.
Nazem Kadri... Skilled scoring forward with good upside.
Ben Scrivens... Big goaltender with some upside.
Jussi Rynnas... [Nothing written yet]
Jesse Blacker... [Nothing written yet]
Stuart Percy... [Nothing written yet]
Simon Gysbers... [Nothing written yet]
Juraj Mikus.... Depth defenseman. Can be a factor on the power play.
Korbinian Holzer... Physical defenseman with some upside.
Jake Gardiner... Mobile puck-moving defenseman with good upside.
Greg Mckegg... [Nothing written yet]
Tyler Biggs... [Nothing written yet]
Matt Frattin.... Speedy winger with some upside.
Brad Ross... [Nothing written yet]
Marcel Mueller... Big winger with some upside.
Jerry D'Amigo... Speedy winger with upside.
Carter Ashton... Power forward with good upside.

I've grown out of intense prospect watching and hoping, and fantasy. Odds are almost everyone of those players will not even be in the organization in 5 years, and the best of the best, of the best, of the best, of that group will turn into solid players who can play a regular NHL shift but who we will always dismiss as expendable, stop-gaps, scape goats, players we want off our team, players not part of our future, players responsibile for why we might not be winning 5 years down the road, like Stajan, Wellwood, Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Tlusty, Stralman, Colaiacovo, Kronwall, etc.

Hell, we'd be striking gold if one of them turned into a MacArthur, or a Stempniak, but in the end all we do is complain about guys like those.

I know this is a hockeyfutures website, but this isn't two years after the lock out anymore, the honey moon with projecting prospects and using them for hope is over for me.

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