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Visors/Cages/Fishbowls/Nothing

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03-28-2012, 09:56 AM
  #251
Stories
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
And therein lies the flaw in your logic. You think we wear the half shield for looks. Looks have absolutely nothing to do with it. We do it because it is a huge difference in vision. Period. Some of us can't adjust to a cage.

And again, the risk is so minimal, it's ridiculous to even discuss. I've seen zero facial injuries on the ice but a number of blown knees. Should we all wear knee braces?

You guys seem to protest so much, I'm beginning to wonder if the hate stems from a little jealousy. Keep in mind, we don't care what you guys think or wear. Not sure why you guys care what we do.
I've always wondered about the visor vs. cage. vs. fishbowl debate. I want to switch to a visor because I'm always annoyed by the wire mesh cage. But at the same time, I'm afraid of fogging (I sweat a lot and when I sit on the bench I can see the sweat evaporating off my face). I'm less concerned with getting my teeth knocked in, I don't play in a league where there's real worry of that happening.

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03-28-2012, 09:59 AM
  #252
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I absolutely couldn't do fishbowl. Tried twice with the Itech Deluxe and within 30 seconds it was pure white, couldn't see anything at all.

With the visor I was constantly wiping on the bench and it would fog it by the end of the shift. And I did try the anti-fog, baby shampoo, etc.

That's just my experience though. I'm probably unique as I see lots of guys using the bowl without issues.

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03-28-2012, 10:07 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
And therein lies the flaw in your logic. You think we wear the half shield for looks. Looks have absolutely nothing to do with it. We do it because it is a huge difference in vision. Period. Some of us can't adjust to a cage.

And again, the risk is so minimal, it's ridiculous to even discuss. I've seen zero facial injuries on the ice but a number of blown knees. Should we all wear knee braces?

You guys seem to protest so much, I'm beginning to wonder if the hate stems from a little jealousy. Keep in mind, we don't care what you guys think or wear. Not sure why you guys care what we do.
It has nothing to do with hate or jealousy. I just don't understand why anyone would take the risk of getting caught with a puck or stick in the face over a recreational activity/hobby.

That's great that you haven't seen any facial injuries on the ice and I agree that it's a rare occurance that it happens. However, if you become that rare occurance the odds become meaningless.

I liken it to people getting Lasik eye surgery. The odds are in your favor that the surgery will be successful. However, if you are the one that develops complications from it, do you really care that the odds were in favor of not developing complications.

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03-28-2012, 10:12 AM
  #254
Jarick
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Hey I used two forms of birth control that should have been 99.5% effective and I still managed to have a kid. I'm pretty familiar with "beating the odds"

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03-28-2012, 10:21 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
It has nothing to do with hate or jealousy. I just don't understand why anyone would take the risk of getting caught with a puck or stick in the face over a recreational activity/hobby.

That's great that you haven't seen any facial injuries on the ice and I agree that it's a rare occurance that it happens. However, if you become that rare occurance the odds become meaningless.

I liken it to people getting Lasik eye surgery. The odds are in your favor that the surgery will be successful. However, if you are the one that develops complications from it, do you really care that the odds were in favor of not developing complications.
So nobody should get Lasik? Not really understanding your point. I could also die from playing hockey. I haven't yet, though. Risks are a part of life.

Again, it would be sweet if we could cut the judgemental garbage.

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03-28-2012, 10:26 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Hey I used two forms of birth control that should have been 99.5% effective and I still managed to have a kid. I'm pretty familiar with "beating the odds"
Jarick, play the lotto

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03-28-2012, 10:53 AM
  #257
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At my company quarterly drawings, we put our name on a piece of paper and put in a bowl to try and win gift cards or sports tickets. I think I won six times in the last two years, so now everyone gives me crap about it, even though I haven't won the last couple times

Tried the lotto but no dice, although the first scratch ticket I ever bought was $50. Never won after that. At the casino I usually either lost $20 or won $20. Not a big gambler, haven't been in almost 10 years.

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03-28-2012, 11:00 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
At my company quarterly drawings, we put our name on a piece of paper and put in a bowl to try and win gift cards or sports tickets. I think I won six times in the last two years, so now everyone gives me crap about it, even though I haven't won the last couple times

Tried the lotto but no dice, although the first scratch ticket I ever bought was $50. Never won after that. At the casino I usually either lost $20 or won $20. Not a big gambler, haven't been in almost 10 years.
Time to try again? Mega Millions is $470 million right now!

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03-28-2012, 12:41 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by hockeymass View Post
So nobody should get Lasik? Not really understanding your point. I could also die from playing hockey. I haven't yet, though. Risks are a part of life.

Again, it would be sweet if we could cut the judgemental garbage.
Not sure who's judging. I just don't understand why you would take the risk of major injury to your face when the technology exists to completely protect it.

I'm not saying that nobody should get Lasik. All I am saying is that even if the odds are 99% that you won't have any complications, if you are the 1% the odds are meaningless. If you want to take the risk to get Lasik or play without a cage, feel free. Personally I'm not willing to take those risks.

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03-28-2012, 12:49 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Not sure who's judging. I just don't understand why you would take the risk of major injury to your face when the technology exists to completely protect it.

I'm not saying that nobody should get Lasik. All I am saying is that even if the odds are 99% that you won't have any complications, if you are the 1% the odds are meaningless. If you want to take the risk to get Lasik or play without a cage, feel free. Personally I'm not willing to take those risks.
Pretty much all the people that are saying "herp derp if you don't wear a cage you're dumb for taking risks" are judging and really getting annoying.

Everyone takes risks every day. Personally, I wear a plastic bubble when I leave the house so I don't get exposed to ebola and die. What, you DON'T wear a bubble? Why not?

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03-28-2012, 12:53 PM
  #261
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People are allowed to say you're taking risks. If they are calling you dumb, it will be marked as flaming and dealt with appropriately.

Let's not go down the semantics route...if you want to list why you wear what you wear, that's great. There are pros and cons. Anything that attacks the so-called "other group" is not necessary.

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03-28-2012, 01:09 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
You really might want to think twice about getting in your car this morning.
This statement is very true. Everyone should think before they get in their car. Sadly few do and it's this complacency that leads to the majority of accidents. Hence the reason why most accidents happen within a few kilometers from a persons home.

If you'd like to dicuss risk in term of health and safety in more detail you can PM me.

Now on to your response and my original post.

It seems the point was missed and maybe I was not clear.

Nowhere did I say risk doesn't exist in life and nowhere did I say people can't choose what they accept as risk.

What I was getting at is risk is a function of consequence and likelihood.

I also was getting at the point that everyone has a different acceptable level of risk.

Sadly people get injured unnecessarily all the time because they do a poor job of assessing risk. Namely through the mentality that it's unlikely to happen to them and do not consider the consequence.

For me I where a visor. Namely because I could care less if I lose teeth. The consequence of getting hit in the mouth is not life changing.

The eyes are a whole other story. I personally would not be ok with the consequence of something happening to my eyes as generally it's severe and it is life changing.

I also find it funny that people will talk about wearing a full face shield/cage to reduce risk of consequences of getting hit in the mouth but do not consider wearing cut proof neck protection in which the consequences are infinitely higher.

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03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
People are allowed to say you're taking risks. If they are calling you dumb, it will be marked as flaming and dealt with appropriately.

Let's not go down the semantics route...if you want to list why you wear what you wear, that's great. There are pros and cons. Anything that attacks the so-called "other group" is not necessary.
It's just really annoying because this discussion is basically a bunch of people that don't understand the concept of acceptable risk and keep beating a dead horse.

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03-28-2012, 01:35 PM
  #264
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I agree with the personal choice argument, the only variable I would throw in is would league fees drop down if cages were mandatory? Less insurance costs for the rink? I switched to a cage after having mouth surgery last May, deciding I'd like to know there is a greater chance of me leaving the rink without getting injured and seeing various injuries during 18 years of rec league play. The worst one I saw was a guy with a visor running into my goalie full speed and his bottom lip was cut in 2 straight down the middle. We've all done stitches, not that big of a deal but having stitches from outside in had to be a long, painful process. I'd rather be annoyed by a cage or called a wuss than go through any sort of major injury again-and the helmet comes right off if you really want to go with me.

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03-28-2012, 02:06 PM
  #265
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I doubt it because in most leagues they require USA Hockey membership which covers the insurance aspect.

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03-28-2012, 02:10 PM
  #266
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Just a heads up to people trying to find the CCM FM480. They just released the FM580 to replace it and it is in stock at hockeymonkey.com and will probably start showing up other places as well in the near future.

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03-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
This statement is very true. Everyone should think before they get in their car. Sadly few do and it's this complacency that leads to the majority of accidents. Hence the reason why most accidents happen within a few kilometers from a persons home.

If you'd like to dicuss risk in term of health and safety in more detail you can PM me.

Now on to your response and my original post.

It seems the point was missed and maybe I was not clear.

Nowhere did I say risk doesn't exist in life and nowhere did I say people can't choose what they accept as risk.

What I was getting at is risk is a function of consequence and likelihood.

I also was getting at the point that everyone has a different acceptable level of risk.

Sadly people get injured unnecessarily all the time because they do a poor job of assessing risk. Namely through the mentality that it's unlikely to happen to them and do not consider the consequence.

For me I where a visor. Namely because I could care less if I lose teeth. The consequence of getting hit in the mouth is not life changing.

The eyes are a whole other story. I personally would not be ok with the consequence of something happening to my eyes as generally it's severe and it is life changing.

I also find it funny that people will talk about wearing a full face shield/cage to reduce risk of consequences of getting hit in the mouth but do not consider wearing cut proof neck protection in which the consequences are infinitely higher.
when it came to me and a cage, i started with one as an adult and i hated it. not only could i not get really used to looking through it, i would always get a friction rash on my chin. when i had the chance i switched to a itech visor (think malking like). since then i have started to use a DX100 visor. covers my upper face and most of my nose. i love the unrestricted vision. i only use a cage when i am playing in my school league, as it is mandated. i currently have not had a puck or stick to the face and i am going on 4 years with a shield

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03-28-2012, 02:33 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by hockeymass View Post
It's just really annoying because this discussion is basically a bunch of people that don't understand the concept of acceptable risk and keep beating a dead horse.
Acceptable risk is in the eye of the beholder.

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03-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Acceptable risk is in the eye of the beholder.
Which is exactly my point.

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03-28-2012, 02:44 PM
  #270
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There. Everyone agrees.

When we don't have to make it personal, we're making the same point. Risk vs reward.

Like I said, let's keep it to your personal choices, any tips you have, humorous anecdotes, etc. No need to go after each other.

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03-28-2012, 02:52 PM
  #271
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I have always played with a cage. Its black. I don't see the wires when I play, you just look through them.

I have played a few games with no cage at all, and I wasn't comfortable. I play defence though and I'd rather have the extra protection.

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03-28-2012, 03:23 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I doubt it because in most leagues they require USA Hockey membership which covers the insurance aspect.
Rink owners pay insurance and I'd have to believe those costs would drop if they made cages mandatory. Does anybody play at a rink that went to cages mandatory and did league fees drop? I'd have to guess that most injuries in hockey are facial but I could be wrong, obviously.

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03-28-2012, 03:29 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Rink owners pay insurance and I'd have to believe those costs would drop if they made cages mandatory. Does anybody play at a rink that went to cages mandatory and did league fees drop? I'd have to guess that most injuries in hockey are facial but I could be wrong, obviously.
i have found with a few full cage games that people are a little more reckless

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03-28-2012, 04:40 PM
  #274
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Well my league plays at probably 15-20 different rinks so I think that's why we went USA hockey.

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03-28-2012, 04:49 PM
  #275
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Almost every league player in the UK wears a half visor, the attitude towards cages is terrible. Kids can play for an adult team when they are 16, and can't take their visor off until they are 18. I've reffed so many games where an adult player has said to a kid "take your cage off you ****ing *****" when they only wear it because they aren't old enough to wear a visor cage players get a really bad rep though because people seem to think they just run round being annoying little ***** in them, even my coach once said to a kid on our team who was playing up from the U18's "you see this? (pointing at his cage) It means you can be a ****" It's funny a couple of years ago there was a U18 Slovak kid who played up for the adult team and everyone hated him and all the opposing fans said he hides behind his cage, then when he turned 18 he went back to Slovakia and they were all like "hurr durr he's scared that he has to take the cage off and all the players will go after him now"

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