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Burke Stay The Course

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Old
03-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #76
moosehead81
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I generally comment on another page but have followed the Leafs for more years than I care to remember. Mr Cox shouldn't talk about trading Kessel one week and then suggesting staying the course the next, unless it's just to sell newspapers. Who knows what the impetus is for something like this. However, I truly don't think there's many options for the Leafs except for staying the course. I would have thought they'd make a play for Jeff Carter who might have made a number one centre, at least in the short term. He played with Joffrey Lupul at Philly and he, Lupul and Kessel may have been a difference maker from the trade deadline to now, assuming Lupul didn't get hurt. Unless they re-build the team through some major trades by moving Phaneuf and Kessel and/or others (and there's no guarantee that the players you'll get will be any better), there's really no other option except to stay with essentially what you have. You might twick things through free agency but there's not much out there. The difficulty is that I don't think a Randy Carlyle team looks anything like who's on the current roster so I would expect that Mr Burke will really be earning his money this summer to put a roster together for next season that will seriously challenge for a playoff spot. Just look at the teams in the conference and thoughtfully position them thru next year vis-a vis the Leafs position. It's a major problem.

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03-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I believe that is what I said. You don't undo 3 years of coaching in a month.

Perhaps Burke was attempting to be competitive while rebuilding the prospects depth, trying to serve two masters, win now and win later. Results are the results, not a good NHL team and not a cupboard full of bluechippers.
Burke made the mistake once already through his own impatience in the Kessel trade, so lets hope he has learned from his mistake.

Burke has delivered the 7th overall in 2008-09, 2nd overall in 2009-10, 9th overall in 2010-11 and currently 5th overall in 2011-12, and those last 3 draft results include 30+ goal and leading scorer Kessel. If Burke could simply undo that one deal those picks would likely even be higher and have more bluechippers and we would have the perfect draft rebuild underway at present. We would be no worse off than now as far as on ice success goes.

"Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Hopefully Burke keeps the pick this year, has learned from his mistakes and continues to build up the prospect pool through drafting and development. While I believe that to be in the best interest of the team going forward, I'm still very nervous that Burke is itching to trade this pick and bring in instant help instead for next year.

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03-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
There is no course to begin with. By all means, if there is one -- please share what exactly it is, and how it will be achieved so that one can see exactly how it is possible to 'stay the course'.

1) Is the course to develop legitimate NHL players that can make an meaningful impact? Haven't seen much of this considering the fact that 'bonafide scrubs' are playing over more talented, and youthful players. If a team is truly giving young players a chance, then they would be playing. The article sites the Rangers and Blues -- I don't see those teams blocking their talented young players with purposeless NHL players on a consistent basis.

2) Is the course to win the Stanley Cup? Well, this is only possible by making the playoffs, which has not been accomplished in 7 years. Can anyone say this current roster is close to that?

3) Is the course to make the playoffs? See above.

4) Is the course to do 1) and accomplish 3)? Well if it is then, this is at least 2-3 years away and how can Burke do it exactly, if his future will surely be at stake. If it's being questioned now, I can't imagine it lasting that long into the future when his contract is up.
The 7 year thing is has to be forgotten! Only half that time is attributed to Burke so bringing it up is pointless!

Burke's job is in no way in jeoprady and noone of any substance is questioning him. The only one;s questioning him are some clueless people here and some irrelevant rating-****** in the media! No oneof any say-so or intelligence believes his job is being questioned or in jeoprady!

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03-28-2012, 11:53 AM
  #79
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Wasn't an article by the same title (and content) published by another author several weeks ago? It never ceases to amaze me the things that some people get paid for.

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03-28-2012, 11:58 AM
  #80
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Getting rid of LACK is not as easy as everyone make it seem. Doing so would make Burke admit he made a mistake. Yeah, like THAT'S ever gonna happen.
Dude can do no wrong, just ask him.

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03-28-2012, 12:00 PM
  #81
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You only have to look at Bryan Murray in Ottawa to see that sense of public support can be quickly regained
Can't wait for this day for everybody to jump back aboard on Burke's bandwagon.

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03-28-2012, 12:06 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by supermann_98 View Post
Getting rid of LACK is not as easy as everyone make it seem. Doing so would make Burke admit he made a mistake. Yeah, like THAT'S ever gonna happen.
Dude can do no wrong, just ask him.
he admitted trading for Versteeg was a mistake and traded Versteeg only after being here for half a season.

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03-28-2012, 12:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by supermann_98 View Post
Getting rid of LACK is not as easy as everyone make it seem. Doing so would make Burke admit he made a mistake. Yeah, like THAT'S ever gonna happen.
Dude can do no wrong, just ask him.
Burke has a team that's set to pick top 5 in the draft and you think his ego is going to get in the way of him making moves to better the team? I doubt it.

He's already traded players he's signed as free agents, so I don't see that as a big issue.

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03-28-2012, 12:16 PM
  #84
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If the pick is not in the top 4 i would like to see it packaged for a proven young player like Nash or Getzlaf.

F Cox he is 100% wrong again!

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03-28-2012, 12:17 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by supermann_98 View Post
Getting rid of LACK is not as easy as everyone make it seem. Doing so would make Burke admit he made a mistake. Yeah, like THAT'S ever gonna happen.
Dude can do no wrong, just ask him.
People need to get over this notion that Burke refuses to take blame. He has never pinned anything on anyone else and has suggested his responsibility on many occasions!

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03-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #86
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So who is this college guy Spencer Abbott that Leafs are going after? Our new saviour?

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03-28-2012, 12:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
So who is this college guy Spencer Abbott that Leafs are going after? Our new saviour?


He's a college player that nobody is expecting to save anything. He's good at his current level and would add some more depth to the prospect pool, but I don't see anyone claiming he'll be a star.

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03-28-2012, 12:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
I loved the Phaneuf deal when it was made, and I still think we came out ahead, considering what Burke gave up. That said, Phaneuf makes McCabe-like bonehead plays on a alarming basis. He even has McCabe's stupid faces to go along with the screwups.

He needs to take this team by the throat and prove he is capable of handling that pressure. Right now, this team is seriously lacking leadership. And, you're right, Phaneuf has to be held accountable for his own shortcomings. Perhaps by taking that responsibility in public will rub off on his teammates.

Honestly, on some nights, if Phaneuf and Connolly ever went to change a lightbuib together, you might want to have a camera close by. Something worth recording is bound to happen.

Brilliant stuff: yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!

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03-28-2012, 12:33 PM
  #89
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And how do you know this? Please share.
Watch last years draft and they alluded that other GM's are having a good time watching Burke squirm.

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Stop reading Steve Simmons -- if you do, and take what he says as gospel, then you ARE NO Leafs fan. Simmons pulls stuff out of his you know where in order to come across as a viable journalist.
I don't read Steve Simmons. I have watched the Leafs for over forty years, I make my own judgments. When you have watched that long give me a ring.

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Pot meet kettle!!!

In what fantasy land did you come up with the idea of other GM's laughing at Burke! There's a couple in Calgary and Anaheim that are likely not laughing too hard!
I don't make profound statements to the media, I don't even do that with my significant other unless I know I can follow through with it. Burke has done it from day one, from his first press conference to his last statement. All smoke but nothing to back it up. You think differently......than you are a naive individual.

He made a good deal with Ana, hell of players in Lupul an Gardiner.....Phaneuf is not bad for spare parts but where has the captain been all year? Where was he last night? Wow! That was such a great deal wasn't it?! Set us up to be contenders forever.....God some of you are blind.

Let's talk about the UFA signings he has made or throwing two first and a second, one which is a lottery pic at a perimeter player that will never be a franchise player.

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I'm sure the teams he beat to get his stanley cup sure are laughing quite hard huh? Lemme guess they dont count because the team was already there when he got there right?
Maybe. I'm sure the GM that put all the pieces there before he arrived had a lot to do with that but perhaps you don't know that. Who was the person that drafted Getzlaf, Perry, Gigurre signed Rob Niedermeyer and the whole cast of others. Burke brought Pronger, good on him. Rob talked Scott to play there, it was a dream the two shared to play together. Maybe if you been watching the Leafs backwards moves for the last few decades you might think differently.

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03-28-2012, 12:35 PM
  #90
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Wow, I agree with Damien Cox, aside from the whole "retarded" word of choice talking about Percy and his concussion problems, but I agree with him. Trading the first rounder this year would be a mistake and would reek of desperation for a playoff stint.
I think that Hell just froze over as I also agree with Cox in this article. He actually sounds an awful lot like me when I am discussing the Leafs with my friends. I feel dirty somehow...

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03-28-2012, 12:36 PM
  #91
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The sad part is other GMs know Burke is desperate to make a change and make the playoffs next year so they will ask for more in trade negotiations.
Negotiation 101 don't be surprised if we give up a lot next year in a trade

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03-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #92
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Definitely not just you. I 100% agree. A good leader not only creates accountability among his teammates, he also must hold himself accountable. Phaneuf has a lot of holes in his game. He is not perfect to say the least; but is anyone really? The true testament of a good leader is the person who embraces and believes in everything you and management want to implement on the team. You need to be the most willing to learn, the player with the most heart, the player teammates look to for guidance, the player who steps up in the key moments in every game, the player that is able to come to the defense of those he leads. Somewhat like a captain in a feild of battle or the captain of a ship. The go down with the ship mentality, rather then jump on a life boat and head to safety ( as we have seen from him to end this season). Phaneuf lacks almost all of these traits. Its not that hes not a good player, he has the pottential to be a key peice of this team. However he is not captain material. I by no means want him traded, but i by no means want him being the leader and voice of this team for the coming years. He is just not believable.

In the game against the bruins Phaneuf turned the puck over at the blue line. Instead of skating as hard as he could to the puck, take a hit and make the play, he lamely attempted to create an interferance on the winger busting towards the puck and ended up getting cleanly beat. After this instead of pedaling down and busting his ass back to the net he coasted. This exact turnover lead to the bruins 8th goal of the game. A very telling play as to who he is as a player. Gave up on the game, ultimately giving up on the team. They zoomed in on his face and he was clearly seen mouthing the words " that was your F***in fault". Even though he was talking to the ref, it shows that he is not willing to be held accountable for his actions. This was and is a huge indication of the type of person and leader he is.
Well said mate.

This is then a true dilemma for this team.

Management + Coach Carlyle have to either A: acknowledge these facts & realise they ain't fooling no one & IF they do B: do something about it.

How can you take the captaincy away from Dion & keep him on this team? Can't have it both ways. If he had he captaincy stripped, man would that dressing room become ever more awkward. He has 2 more years after this on his existing deal. Basically, I reckon, major pep talk in the off-season, he comes back as captain...Either that or he gets dealt.

Hey if we sign Shultz & Suter ( ) why the hell not?

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03-28-2012, 12:40 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
Burke has a team that's set to pick top 5 in the draft and you think his ego is going to get in the way of him making moves to better the team? I doubt it.

He's already traded players he's signed as free agents, so I don't see that as a big issue.
The team is set to pick top 5, because of Burke's failures as a GM to ice a competitive team, not his successes.

His true agenda and intentions/beliefs were that he was building a team capable of making the playoffs, and not one finishing in the draft lottery bottom 5.

Its Burke's ego that will directly effect what happens from this point forward, as its taking a personal beating through the teams struggles and exposing his mistakes. Having Komisarek and Armstrong as healthy scratches putting $8.5 mil in the pressbox in real $$ are evidence of glaring UFA signing mistakes.

How he corrects these mistakes made, will be a big factor in Leafs future success. Keeping this pick and remaining patient is a long-term key factor, and not more quick fixes that have failed.

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03-28-2012, 12:42 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
People need to get over this notion that Burke refuses to take blame. He has never pinned anything on anyone else and has suggested his responsibility on many occasions!
Wait for the state of the union address at the end of the season.

Burke will tip his hand & heads have to roll.

HEADS HAVE TO ROLL!!!!!

I think he will take accountability but there's every chance that he won't so it'll be pretty interesting to say the least.

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03-28-2012, 12:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The team is set to pick top 5, because of Burke's failures as a GM to ice a competitive team, not his successes.

His true agenda and intentions/beliefs were that he was building a team capable of making the playoffs, and not one finishing in the draft lottery bottom 5.

Its Burke's ego that will directly effect what happens from this point forward, as its taking a personal beating through the teams struggles and exposing his mistakes. Having Komisarek and Armstrong as healthy scratches putting $8.5 mil in the pressbox in real $$ are evidence of glaring UFA signing mistakes.

How he corrects these mistakes made, will be a big factor in Leafs future success. Keeping this pick and remaining patient is a long-term key factor, and not more quick fixes that have failed.
My point exactly. The team has finished at the bottom numerous times because it's stunk (for the most part), I find it highly unlikely he wouldn't dump any player if he felt it would make the team better. Crazy to think his ego would have him thinking 'I signed Armstrong, therefore I'm not dealing him'.

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03-28-2012, 12:46 PM
  #96
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The sad part is other GMs know Burke is desperate to make a change and make the playoffs next year so they will ask for more in trade negotiations.
Negotiation 101 don't be surprised if we give up a lot next year in a trade
When has Burke ever been bullied in trade negotiations? Last thing you have to worry about

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03-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #97
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Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. Burke does come across as arrogant and does talk down to people from time to time; he has made unwarranted predictions that have come back to bite him. Brian should shut up and do his job! I think we can all agree on that.

That said, life is not a straight line for anyone; things don't always work out, we all make mistakes; we all have 20/20 hindsight. The day Brian signed Mike Komiserek did anyone here think it was a bad signing? It hasn't worked out, to date, as we all hoped it would. I remember when Beauchamin signed with us; Dregger tweeted that the Leafs defense just got alot better. Things don't always work out. Just ask Sather about Wade Redden!

I like Cox's comparison to Sather; the Rangers we not good for years after he went there; now look at them. Sather made mistakes and recovered. The Leafs, the fans, and the GM should settle down and build on what we have; I'd rather have this team than the team that Junior left for Burke. Could have done without Cliff giving Steen and Coliaccovo to St. Louis for free though. (I know I butchered the spelling of Carlo's name)

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03-28-2012, 12:49 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The team is set to pick top 5, because of Burke's failures as a GM to ice a competitive team, not his successes.

His true agenda and intentions/beliefs were that he was building a team capable of making the playoffs, and not one finishing in the draft lottery bottom 5.

Its Burke's ego that will directly effect what happens from this point forward, as its taking a personal beating through the teams struggles and exposing his mistakes. Having Komisarek and Armstrong as healthy scratches putting $8.5 mil in the pressbox in real $$ are evidence of glaring UFA signing mistakes.

How he corrects these mistakes made, will be a big factor in Leafs future success. Keeping this pick and remaining patient is a long-term key factor, and not more quick fixes that have failed.
Maybe his real agenda was to tell everyone we are going to make the playoffs (like all GM's do) and this was really a plan to get a bunch of lottery picks and high 1st's since we are going through a rebuild.

He could have easily signed/traded for a veteran goalie or retained Giguere and finished in the middle of the pack again but opted to ride on two young unproven goalies instead, seems fishy.

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03-28-2012, 12:51 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I believe that is what I said. You don't undo 3 years of coaching in a month.

Perhaps Burke was attempting to be competitive while rebuilding the prospects depth, trying to serve two masters, win now and win later. Results are the results, not a good NHL team and not a cupboard full of bluechippers.
Burke made the mistake once already through his own impatience in the Kessel trade, so lets hope he has learned from his mistake.

Burke has delivered the 7th overall in 2008-09, 2nd overall in 2009-10, 9th overall in 2010-11 and currently 5th overall in 2011-12, and those last 3 draft results include 30+ goal and leading scorer Kessel. If Burke could simply undo that one deal those picks would likely even be higher and have more bluechippers and we would have the perfect draft rebuild underway at present. We would be no worse off than now as far as on ice success goes.

"Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Hopefully Burke keeps the pick this year, has learned from his mistakes and continues to build up the prospect pool through drafting and development. While I believe that to be in the best interest of the team going forward, I'm still very nervous that Burke is itching to trade this pick and bring in instant help instead for next year.

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03-28-2012, 12:53 PM
  #100
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He's a college player that nobody is expecting to save anything. He's good at his current level and would add some more depth to the prospect pool, but I don't see anyone claiming he'll be a star.

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