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Marc Staal is he not what we think ?

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Old
03-28-2012, 03:37 PM
  #51
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Personally, I would like to take Bickel out of the lineup. Put Del Z and Stralman back together. Put Erixon and Staal as our third pair.

Bickel and Staal together is a match made in hell. Bickel compliments nothing to Staal's game. He needs a mobile D man to play with.

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03-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I know the guy is coming off a major concussion and I still think there is or was a disc injury to the neck .. He thrives on ice time and was averaging like 24 mins when he was dominate but now he has been drastically reduced to playing as the 5th guy with stu Bickel. I love Staal but it appears to me he is lagging and totally not the same person he was before the injury .. I know he needs time to return to form but I think there is either more to it or is he in torts dog house ? Dave Maloney stated he felt Marc was a step behind and looked to be behind, so my question is with all we have in system at the position do we look to move him?
Always get a kick out of your posts. Sometimes I think you just like to stir the pot up... which is fine.

I think its safe to say he hasnt been himself, but for a top defenseman - missing camp and large part of the season really hurts. I see flashes of his old self come out now and again, but for me the biggest problems hes having is handling and passing the puck and closing off angles on forwards. Thats correctable with more time. Lets give this guy another season before throwing him out on the trade pile.

Oh, and let's not forget that he probably hasnt been off of his skates for more than a month straight over the course of his entire career. Being off your skates for such a long time takes that much longer to get it back. IMO hell be fine.

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03-28-2012, 04:28 PM
  #53
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Not another marc staal thread...this is just pathetic

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03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I will not judge Staal at all until he has a full offseason of recovery.
Spot on

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03-28-2012, 05:23 PM
  #55
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Less then 12 months ago 98% of this board was saying he's a top 3 shutdown defenseman and probably 75% thought his offensive game will eventually develop. One injury later and he's trash.

It's absolutely crazy. The guy is a top flighted shut down defenseman who's playing pretty good hockey despite not playing for a season. The fact that he's rested could mean he's gonna enter the playoffs feeling rested and by the 2nd round we could see our dominate Marc Staal back in action. I've never seen a player consistently win 1 on 2 battles in the corner like Marc Staal does. It's unreal.

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03-28-2012, 05:25 PM
  #56
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You cant use the 2011 playoffs as a barometer, since it was post concussion. Staal was very good defending a 56-goal Ovechkin in the 2009 playoffs, and his 2008 playoffs were very solid for a rookie.

His concussion was in March. Staal was cleared for contact in December, cleared for workouts in November.

If Staal is playing like crap because of his lack of conditioning, why was he rushed back? The Rangers didn't necessarily need him. MDZ, MacD and Girardi were playing their best hockey of the season. The Rangers went 8-3-1 from the Sauer injury to the last game before Staal. 23-9-4 without Staal.

Staal has played on or played like a bottom 5-6 his entire time back, give or take a few games. They brought Staal back thinking he would be 2009 Staal, and ignored the position upgrade at the deadline.

So what is it? Did the Rangers rush Staal back, or did Staal feel like he was ready and convince the Rangers he could perform at an elite level.

Either way, in retrospect, i dont think either was a good decision.

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03-28-2012, 06:27 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
Less then 12 months ago 98% of this board was saying he's a top 3 shutdown defenseman and probably 75% thought his offensive game will eventually develop. One injury later and he's trash.

It's absolutely crazy. The guy is a top flighted shut down defenseman who's playing pretty good hockey despite not playing for a season. The fact that he's rested could mean he's gonna enter the playoffs feeling rested and by the 2nd round we could see our dominate Marc Staal back in action. I've never seen a player consistently win 1 on 2 battles in the corner like Marc Staal does. It's unreal.
It wasn't just this board. Staal got a TON of love on the main board as well. Do a search and you'll find a few large main board threads praising him, and a few trade proposal threads that had some hefty returns coming to lure Staal to other teams. Not to mention every GDT for other teams that I wandered into.


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Old
03-28-2012, 07:54 PM
  #58
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A small flash of the old Staal tonight when he just stopped Kane dead and simultaneously knocked the puck away.

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03-28-2012, 07:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
You cant use the 2011 playoffs as a barometer, since it was post concussion. Staal was very good defending a 56-goal Ovechkin in the 2009 playoffs, and his 2008 playoffs were very solid for a rookie.

His concussion was in March. Staal was cleared for contact in December, cleared for workouts in November.

If Staal is playing like crap because of his lack of conditioning, why was he rushed back? The Rangers didn't necessarily need him. MDZ, MacD and Girardi were playing their best hockey of the season. The Rangers went 8-3-1 from the Sauer injury to the last game before Staal. 23-9-4 without Staal.

Staal has played on or played like a bottom 5-6 his entire time back, give or take a few games. They brought Staal back thinking he would be 2009 Staal, and ignored the position upgrade at the deadline.

So what is it? Did the Rangers rush Staal back, or did Staal feel like he was ready and convince the Rangers he could perform at an elite level.

Either way, in retrospect, i dont think either was a good decision.
There's no way to get back into the game except to play. That's normally what happens in training camp and the beginning of the season. Unfortunately, there's no replacement for a full offseason of training. They brought Staal back because he was physically recovered from his concussion. They likely didn't expect him to step right back in as an All Star defenseman again. A lesser Marc Staal is better than many other defenseman, and it's giving him a chance to get his timing back.

Would you rather he was just not doing anything right now? Would you rather have Eminger, Stralman, and Bickel playing every night?

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03-28-2012, 08:51 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
There's no way to get back into the game except to play. That's normally what happens in training camp and the beginning of the season. Unfortunately, there's no replacement for a full offseason of training. They brought Staal back because he was physically recovered from his concussion. They likely didn't expect him to step right back in as an All Star defenseman again. A lesser Marc Staal is better than many other defenseman, and it's giving him a chance to get his timing back.

Would you rather he was just not doing anything right now? Would you rather have Eminger, Stralman, and Bickel playing every night?
Of course not. If Staal was kept on the shelf, they would have added a piece or two at the deadline or earlier.

If Staal plays 95 pct of his games like he played tonight, I want nothing to do with moving him.

Thats why I dont believe the conditioning or camp excuse. He's had games where he was close to dominant in his own end. He just doesnt do it enough. Maybe once every 3 or 4 games. 40-plus games into a season, he should not have any conditioning or consistency issues IMO.

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03-28-2012, 09:18 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Of course not. If Staal was kept on the shelf, they would have added a piece or two at the deadline or earlier.

If Staal plays 95 pct of his games like he played tonight, I want nothing to do with moving him.

Thats why I dont believe the conditioning or camp excuse. He's had games where he was close to dominant in his own end. He just doesnt do it enough. Maybe once every 3 or 4 games. 40-plus games into a season, he should not have any conditioning or consistency issues IMO.
I don't see how you could say that. Do you think that the months of work and preparation that NHL players do before the season starts is pointless? The lack of that practice and preparation is likely why Marc has been so inconsistent. Problems don't always manifest themselves in poor play during every single game, sometimes they result in up and down play.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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03-28-2012, 11:39 PM
  #62
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No its hes been playing like 3 months and you want to get rid of him. Give me a break hes a number 1 shutdown D man on most teams, guess what we have 2 or 3 in Mcd Stall and Girardi, not to mention Sauer who is injured. But ya we have depth on D that doesent mean we should ruin it, that is a big reason we can win 1 goal games not just Lundy .

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03-28-2012, 11:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Of course not. If Staal was kept on the shelf, they would have added a piece or two at the deadline or earlier.

If Staal plays 95 pct of his games like he played tonight, I want nothing to do with moving him.

Thats why I dont believe the conditioning or camp excuse. He's had games where he was close to dominant in his own end. He just doesnt do it enough. Maybe once every 3 or 4 games. 40-plus games into a season, he should not have any conditioning or consistency issues IMO.
You wouldint know how much not starting the season can affect his stride. Especially a guy like Stall who just gets better the more he plays and the more minutes he gets.

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03-29-2012, 10:14 AM
  #64
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If you can't hold some semblance of a mature debate, feel free to shut up. First and final warning before I start infracting people. Slinging insults isn't acceptable, no matter how much you disagree with someone.

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03-29-2012, 10:19 AM
  #65
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my bad deathdealer , wasn't trying to insult you or anything, we just have conflicting views on what a good d man is

Beuks was better IMO

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03-29-2012, 10:22 AM
  #66
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my bad deathdealer , wasn't trying to insult you or anything, we just have conflicting views on what a good d man is
and thats fine, i love a good debate, i hate however haveing my posts deleted for no reason at all. if someone has something to say to me its all good, i will respond as best i can, but to have a post deleted after i take the time to look up so im not talking out of my ***, kinda rubs my rhubarb

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03-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #67
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Girardi
Del Zotto
Gaborik
....

Staal

Yup.

Those are all guys this fanbase wanted to trade because they were having an off year...now look at them. Not everyone can come back that season from a concussion and return to normal. A lot of times take an offseason. I am NOT for trading Staal at all. It's like a recurring theme on this forum.
Totally agree. Lets give him an offseason and see what he's got next year. For now, any team would love to have a bottom pairing guy as good as Staal.

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03-29-2012, 11:01 AM
  #68
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Totally agree. Lets give him an offseason and see what he's got next year. For now, any team would love to have a bottom pairing guy as good as Staal.
I enjoy that people talk about him being a bottom pair defenseman right now when he's playing more than 20 minutes most nights.

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03-29-2012, 11:26 AM
  #69
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You can sell Staal right now but why would you? His value is at an all-time low. He's just returning from a concussion (no GM wants any part of that), give him some time... it's not like he's -25 this season. He was a stud before, he will be again. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he's our best Dman in the play-offs.

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03-29-2012, 11:42 AM
  #70
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All I am going to say is getting rid of Marc Staal would be horrible HORRIBLE mistake. All Star Dmen do not grow on trees. He has struggled as of late, but the lack of proper strength training in the off season has hurt him.

I think the organization is not even close to trading Staal.

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03-29-2012, 11:46 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If you can't hold some semblance of a mature debate, feel free to shut up. First and final warning before I start infracting people. Slinging insults isn't acceptable, no matter how much you disagree with someone.
as a fan of battlestar galactica, that sounds dirty

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03-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #72
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I don't see how you could say that. Do you think that the months of work and preparation that NHL players do before the season starts is pointless? The lack of that practice and preparation is likely why Marc has been so inconsistent. Problems don't always manifest themselves in poor play during every single game, sometimes they result in up and down play.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
People are making it sound like Staal was on his couch from April to the night before the Winter Classic.

Not the case at all.

Stall did work out this summer. He worked out a lot. The problems began when he was sufferring from headaches after his workouts. He was cleared by neurologists after the hit, after the playoffs and before the 2011 camp.

By all reports, he showed up to camp in shape. He wasnt in peak shape, but he wasnt out of shape. He showed up ready to go, then after a week of camp, he complained about headaches again.

On Sept 18, almost a week after camp opened, Staal was held out of scrimmages and told he wasnt playing in exhibition games. But he still worked out and practiced.

Here's what Torts said on 18 Sep:

Quote:
My thoughts, and Ive talked to Marc, is he wont be playing any exhibition games early on. Id like to get him a couple out overseas. Skated really well today, worked out hard yesterday, felt good in the morning, felt good in the evening, skated again today. I saw him before he left the building felt really good.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ran...ussion-headach
In reality, Staal was only told to not work out for a month and a half. He shut himself down for a few weeks during the summer.

Cantu shut him down in early October. He shut him down again in November.

On 17 November, Cantu cleared Staal for light workouts. That meant he was allowed to run 10 miles, do shuttle runs, skate etc.

Staal had an inconsistent offseason of workouts, but he still worked out:

Quote:
I worked hard in the summer. Like I said, I was kind of improving. Id have a good day, and then not great the next. At that point, I knew I still wasnt healthy, and (the Rangers) knew that too when I came in (for training camp). It was more see how you do. I wasnt going to get hit or anything like that. Maybe I just needed to get through it and work through it. It never went that way, so I just shut it down.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...#ixzz1qWl5ecST
In summation, a summer of partial workouts, a month and a half of NHL practices and scrimmages with contact, and 20 mid-season NHL games should be more than enough time for a player to regain his form. IMO, there's no exuse for some of the plays he was making the last two weeks, and noen of it had to do with conditioning or headaches.

But, he's starting to turn the corner and we're seeing good signs. I still think the Rangers will have to trade one of the Big 4 in the next two years. I can almost guarantee it.

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03-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #73
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I know the guy is coming off a major concussion and I still think there is or was a disc injury to the neck .. He thrives on ice time and was averaging like 24 mins when he was dominate but now he has been drastically reduced to playing as the 5th guy with stu Bickel. I love Staal but it appears to me he is lagging and totally not the same person he was before the injury .. I know he needs time to return to form but I think there is either more to it or is he in torts dog house ? Dave Maloney stated he felt Marc was a step behind and looked to be behind, so my question is with all we have in system at the position do we look to move him?
He looks a step behind, a little tentative at times and seems to be thinking instead of using his instincts...BUT

The guy missed a lot of time and you never judge a player when he comes back mid-season from an injury I'll be concerned if he still doesn't have his game back next season.

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03-29-2012, 01:32 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
You cant use the 2011 playoffs as a barometer, since it was post concussion. Staal was very good defending a 56-goal Ovechkin in the 2009 playoffs, and his 2008 playoffs were very solid for a rookie.

His concussion was in March. Staal was cleared for contact in December, cleared for workouts in November.

If Staal is playing like crap because of his lack of conditioning, why was he rushed back? The Rangers didn't necessarily need him. MDZ, MacD and Girardi were playing their best hockey of the season. The Rangers went 8-3-1 from the Sauer injury to the last game before Staal. 23-9-4 without Staal.

Staal has played on or played like a bottom 5-6 his entire time back, give or take a few games. They brought Staal back thinking he would be 2009 Staal, and ignored the position upgrade at the deadline.

So what is it? Did the Rangers rush Staal back, or did Staal feel like he was ready and convince the Rangers he could perform at an elite level.

Either way, in retrospect, i dont think either was a good decision.
Staal right now is better than Bickel and just as good as Stralman. Every few games he looks like a very good second pairing d-man.

I take Marc back now if it helps him get back in shape to be the 1st pairing d-man he is next season.

Not to mention with how bad our defense has been the past two months, it really takes an AWFUL game (the one he had a week~ ago?) to really stick out as a negative. Most nights, I think he's a net positive to the team. Staal has made his name playing like a moose against the elite scorers in the league- give him an off-season and a Torts camp and I have no doubt he'll be back to where he was.

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Old
03-30-2012, 07:36 PM
  #75
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Despite having one of the best defensive corps in the league, not to mention a fairly young group, we have this same conversation every season.

Two years ago it was Girardi.

Last year it was Del Zotto.

Next year it will be someone else.

There's always going to be hiccups and off years. But I concur with the majority here, let's give this poor guy an offseason to recover.

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