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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 2

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Old
03-29-2012, 12:19 AM
  #226
llamapalooza
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Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
What, does missing the playoffs five years in a row meet your expectations for an NHL team in a strong hockey market? What if you were paying several thousand dollars a year for season tickets?

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03-29-2012, 12:47 AM
  #227
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What, does missing the playoffs five years in a row meet your expectations for an NHL team in a strong hockey market? What if you were paying several thousand dollars a year for season tickets?
I meant more along the lines of... What are standards?

/crappy joke

I don't know how I'd feel being a season ticket holder. Probably depressed and hesitant to buy season tickets for the upcoming year. I'll let you know one day (hopefully!).

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03-29-2012, 01:02 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Then how many years does the next GM get? And how do we base his success and competency? If he ends up actually bringing in players that help us improve, then great I guess, but if he doesn't, and all of (or most of) GMCF's draftees turn out to be good players and help us get better, do we really know anything about the new GM? It just seems weird to me.
I dont know, I just know that from a marketing standpoint this team is getting worse and worse rather than a marketing friendly better and better. Next year had damned well better be a marked improvement over this year or a lot of stuff could go down. Like I said, I agree it's not fair, but next year is going to be the first we get to see of GMCF's picks and if they dont help the team, that might seal his fate.

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03-29-2012, 01:15 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
I dont know, I just know that from a marketing standpoint this team is getting worse and worse rather than a marketing friendly better and better. Next year had damned well better be a marked improvement over this year or a lot of stuff could go down. Like I said, I agree it's not fair, but next year is going to be the first we get to see of GMCF's picks and if they dont help the team, that might seal his fate.
In all honesty tho, when GMCF took over we had an owner who believed we were playoff bound and wanted to get there, only recently did our owner realize we had utter **** for a farm system and utter **** mostly on the roster. Lets not forget Gaborik walked away for nothing thanks to a certain mastermind.

Also this year the team was more then good enough to make the playoffs, but we lost 3 top 6 guys and all our depth that could replace those guys wasn't here. this team did take a step forward until we just got side****ed by the injuries. to me this team isn't at all far away from playoff's given that next year if koivu goes down our options for replacing him would be coyle/granlund/phillips and not warren ****ing peters. or if we lost a top6 guy we can actually have a top 6 skillset to step in and not daroll ****ing kung powe.

I think we've all seen this team play with out urgency, but how many games did we see this team without koivu, butch, lats just plain do everything they can and couldn't buy a goal and the other team makes it look easy. i know we all want to say why don't they score more, but come on thing about it, when you are asking kyle brodiziak to do what koivu does you have issues big time.

as for the draft, ryan murray has been a amazing on over matched everett team, tonight he had 1g 1a in a 4-3 loss, i say if this guy is there we click our heels up to the podium and grab him.

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03-29-2012, 01:21 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
In all honesty tho, when GMCF took over we had an owner who believed we were playoff bound and wanted to get there, only recently did our owner realize we had utter **** for a farm system and utter **** mostly on the roster. Lets not forget Gaborik walked away for nothing thanks to a certain mastermind.

Also this year the team was more then good enough to make the playoffs, but we lost 3 top 6 guys and all our depth that could replace those guys wasn't here. this team did take a step forward until we just got side****ed by the injuries. to me this team isn't at all far away from playoff's given that next year if koivu goes down our options for replacing him would be coyle/granlund/phillips and not warren ****ing peters. or if we lost a top6 guy we can actually have a top 6 skillset to step in and not daroll ****ing kung powe.

I think we've all seen this team play with out urgency, but how many games did we see this team without koivu, butch, lats just plain do everything they can and couldn't buy a goal and the other team makes it look easy. i know we all want to say why don't they score more, but come on thing about it, when you are asking kyle brodiziak to do what koivu does you have issues big time.

as for the draft, ryan murray has been a amazing on over matched everett team, tonight he had 1g 1a in a 4-3 loss, i say if this guy is there we click our heels up to the podium and grab him.
Yes, the team was utter crap when GMCF took over. On that I think we can all agree.

But I dont buy pure injurues being the only excuse for this team being total crap from december 10th onward.

Like I said earlier, if the team had shown up every night and played its heart out and still lost, I could tolerate all these losses a lot more, but thats just not the case, and I think that, not the injuries, is the root of the Wilds problem right now.

The team has been without butch and lats so long that it should have re-developed its chemistry in some form by now. And like I said earlier, I think the problem behind that is that Yeo has completely lost the team, and if that continues into next year it could result in job losses for both him and GMCF. Not fair? Absolutely not fair. But that's how things go.

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03-29-2012, 01:29 AM
  #231
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pure speculation

we sign parise in the off season

lats and butch are not back from concussions

parise koivu heatly

granlund cullen setoguchi (granlund can center if he is ready)

clutterbuck brodiziak Coyle

AHL Power AHL/Kassian wouldn't mind warren peters here

on defense

Gilbert-Brodin

Scandella-Spurgeon

Kampfer-Prosser

Stoner

we would have

Johan Larsson, Zack Phillips, Brett Bulmer and Jason zucker to call up if we sustain injuries. Bulmer can play NHL, we will see about zucker and i know the d pairing might look like **** because i didn't put much though into them.

this is with out drafting at all, now on paper we have a far more balanced team. also our D is far more mobile and this is with out any FA signings or draft or trade.

that team on paper again is a playoff worthy team, and also a team that can lose a top 6 guy and have guys who can be called up to bring that skill set to the team.

now if we assume Lats is signed and ready to go we have something like this

Parise Koivu Heather

Lats Cullen Granlund

Clutter Brodziak Seto

Nick Johnsson Powe whatever

we can stick all our guys in the minors and let them develop down there unless they beat out some of the guys for spots above.

our callup depth is huge in this case.

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03-29-2012, 01:31 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Yes, the team was utter crap when GMCF took over. On that I think we can all agree.

But I dont buy pure injurues being the only excuse for this team being total crap from december 10th onward.

Like I said earlier, if the team had shown up every night and played its heart out and still lost, I could tolerate all these losses a lot more, but thats just not the case, and I think that, not the injuries, is the root of the Wilds problem right now.

The team has been without butch and lats so long that it should have re-developed its chemistry in some form by now. And like I said earlier, I think the problem behind that is that Yeo has completely lost the team, and if that continues into next year it could result in job losses for both him and GMCF. Not fair? Absolutely not fair. But that's how things go.
Yeah our roster is pretty epic when it's healthy, defense needs work, but we'll take care of that this FA season. I think injuries is a good reason as to why we sucked this year. When you got Brodz/Cullen/Peters/Some AHL'er as your top 4 centres for most of the year and each of your top 6 forwards besides Heatley/Cullen/Seto has played 60+ games it's a good reason.

Lats only played 16, Bouch 37?, and Koivu like 40 something, what if we had all of them for 70+games. Things would be different, not to mention the injuries ravaging our defense, Zids being a big baby, and everyone not caring halfway through the season.

Yeah when the only thing you got to look forward this spring and summer is a high draft pick and whatever third tier FA's you can get. It's going to be a long season next year. I just hope our defense improves from within with experience because I don't think we're getting anyone Suter-esque or around his skill level this summer. Don't think many people will sign onto a 27th place team.

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03-29-2012, 01:35 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Yes, the team was utter crap when GMCF took over. On that I think we can all agree.

But I dont buy pure injurues being the only excuse for this team being total crap from december 10th onward.

Like I said earlier, if the team had shown up every night and played its heart out and still lost, I could tolerate all these losses a lot more, but thats just not the case, and I think that, not the injuries, is the root of the Wilds problem right now.

The team has been without butch and lats so long that it should have re-developed its chemistry in some form by now. And like I said earlier, I think the problem behind that is that Yeo has completely lost the team, and if that continues into next year it could result in job losses for both him and GMCF. Not fair? Absolutely not fair. But that's how things go.
I think the Zidz situation was what lost Yeo some street cred with the team, thats the point where to me the team just checked out big time. I still stand by the fact that Zidz should not have seen a second of ice time after his stunt, but Yeo put him in and I think the team as a general ruse saw that and just stopped trying.

you have to take into account what we were missing from december 10th, you can have guys try all the ****ing want, Brodziak won't be a top line center, for all the ragging people dish on koivu here, he is a legit #1 NHL center. He is able to bring the offense every night even when playing vs the best other team has to offer, that makes it easier on all the other lines. We just didn't have the skill and were easy to shutdown.

Like i have said before, last year Penguins were with out crosby and malkin but they had a very good defense that picked up the slack, we didn't have that to fall back on.

How many times has our defense failed to clear the zone since our top 6 guys went down, they just don't have the skill try as they might they didn't have what it takes to win, and yes it is a draining feeling. I agree Yeo gets some blame, but to me the way he let Zidz run the show is what the severing point was, remember wild were in 8th when Zidz went back in with 3 wins in a row playing the way they did before the injuries, scrappy and full of heart.

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03-29-2012, 02:05 AM
  #234
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^Yeah I don't get what all the hooplah about Koivu not being a #1 center is. Want to know how many teams would trade for Koivu right now? I'm going to need my toes to count here. Not to mention know how many teams are desperately searching for a number one center.

Want to know how many centers this year have put up points higher than Koivu's average of around 65-71 points he usually gets? 11.

We don't need a top heavy line, we need three lines that can score which is why we need a second line center other than Cullen to get this going. If we get to second or third overall, I'd be happy with picking up Forsberg or the Russian center. Though we need a true top pairing D in this draft.

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03-29-2012, 02:54 AM
  #235
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This is an interesting scenario brought up on the prospect thread; if Columbus wants the 2nd pick and Minnesota is sitting there, do we move down? I suggested LA's 1st, 2nd and a prospect like Weber. We would then have 4 picks in the top 60, something Fletcher loves and as the defensemen all have question marks, who knows, maybe the guy we pick with LA's 1st could become a top 2 defenseman.

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03-29-2012, 02:58 AM
  #236
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Not sure if it's been posted before or not but here's what I think is a decent article on the Wild and the issue of us tanking or not.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/3/2...minnesota-wild

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03-29-2012, 07:33 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Not sure if it's been posted before or not but here's what I think is a decent article on the Wild and the issue of us tanking or not.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/3/2...minnesota-wild
we dont have to tank, we are shalllow and bad.

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03-29-2012, 07:40 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Not sure if it's been posted before or not but here's what I think is a decent article on the Wild and the issue of us tanking or not.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/3/2...minnesota-wild
I dont care about ticket sales at this time and the wild arent going anywhere.

I also know that I'll still be a wild fan in 3 years when the draft picks develop so rooting for a better pick is the same as rooting for the team to get better.

The article kind of hovers around the idea of tanking then concludes that it shouldn't be rooted for.

Obviously the players arent going to intentionally lose but its hard not to get excited when the wild are sitting near the bottom 5 this late in the season after the brutal collapse.

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03-29-2012, 09:35 AM
  #239
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This is so incredibly short-sighted. Anybody will tell you, you can't evaluate a draft class for at least 3 years. We now know for sure that 2004-2007 sucked, would you like to take a guess at who was running those drafts? In fact, it was one of Fletcher's moves that almost salvaged (and still might) one of the old regime's biggest blunders.
What's so short-sighted about the fact that the 2009 class didn't come from Fletcher's regime? There's no debate here. Yet the new regime gets credit for it, fairly or unfairly. If anything is short-sighted, it's saying that Fletcher deserves X amount of time because of drafts that have yet to see a player hit the pro leagues in North America. Let's evaluate the guy on what his job is really about - NHL personnel moves - instead of future maybes that other people directed.

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03-29-2012, 09:41 AM
  #240
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Nothing wrong with tanking. Short pain, long term growth. Especially with the way the Wild are currently set-up.

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03-29-2012, 09:45 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Let's evaluate the guy on what his job is really about - NHL personnel moves - instead of future maybes that other people directed.


If a GM can't draft, they can't do squat in the NHL. That's why the Wild are where they are. Almost 7 years of terrible drafting does that to an organization. You can't make those NHL personnel moves if you don't have any players to trade or replace your players with. And you start ending up with depth problems like Minnesota has.

As well, I thought I remember Tommy Thompson really not being involved in the 2009 draft. He was just there.

Moving along...

This is my concern regarding picking a forward in this year's draft is development time. We have a lot of forwards right now that could wind up needing some time in the NHL, and it could end up stunting the growth of one of our forwards. Next year we'll have a bumper crop of good forwards coming in to the AHL but with another forward in the NHL, it might push the development time for one of those forwards and might stunt their growth.

I rather move down a bit and focus on a defenseman.

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03-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #242
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Hey, maybe we could get back on topic? The Yeo/Fletcher/Playoffs/Voodoo talk can go back in the 2011-2012 Wild thread.

In regards to the Galchenyuk/Granlund comparison, Granlund has never been a natural goal scorer. He can pot goals, and make pretty plays, but he's a playmaker first, second, and third. Galchenyuk gets a lot of assists, and maybe he's even slightly pass first, but he's been playing with Yakupov. From what I've heard and seen, Granlund scores goals because no one else on his team will. Galchenyuk nets assists because he's playing with Yakupov. Here are some selected stats (picked from times there's enough GP to take a look):

Galchenyuk:
MWEHL: 38GP 44G 43A 87Pts
OHL: 70GP 31G 52A 83Pts

Granlund:
Int-Jr: 61GP 30G 58A 88Pts
Jr. A: 35GP 21G 36A 57Pts
SM-Liiga: 129GP 41G 86A 127Pts

Granlund's highest G:A ratio was just equal to Galchenyuk's lowest, and Granlund did that at the junior level (where individual play usually inflates goal totals). Galchenyuk actually has play where he's tallied more goals than assists.

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03-29-2012, 09:54 AM
  #243
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What's so short-sighted about the fact that the 2009 class didn't come from Fletcher's regime? There's no debate here. Yet the new regime gets credit for it, fairly or unfairly. If anything is short-sighted, it's saying that Fletcher deserves X amount of time because of drafts that have yet to see a player hit the pro leagues in North America. Let's evaluate the guy on what his job is really about - NHL personnel moves - instead of future maybes that other people directed.
Taking your argument at face value, ignoring the massive improvement in the prospect pool, the Wild team on the ice has treaded water under Fletcher.

Honestly, that's an accomplishment in the state Risenbough left it, which was on a huge decline. Demitra gone, replaced by nobody. Rolston gone, replaced by nobody. Parrish bought-out. Belanger a bust. Our 3rd line was Veilleux and Radio, one of which isn't even in the NHL and the other shouldn't be. Gillies and Sheppard were being ruined on the 4th line and in the pressbox. And Gaborik was leaving.. And there was nobody coming from the farm to help the offense.

Somehow, Fletcher managed to stop the free-fall. He signed Havlat, the largest free agent in Wild history, who became Heatley. Brodziak has been a huge pick-up. Zanon was decent. Cullen, while mostly bust, is still an upgrade over Belanger. And now we are on the upswing with our prospects.

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03-29-2012, 10:08 AM
  #244
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Dropping Pythagorean as it's probably not much of an issue at this point.

Ranked based on actual points per game, Wild are at 4th.

Draft Position
DraftTeamPtsGRProjOddsHighest
1stCOLUMBUS57560.7025.0%1st
2ndEDMONTON71575.6118.8%1st
3rdMONTREAL72576.6814.2%1st
4thMINNESOTA72677.6810.7%1st
5thTORONTO75579.878.1%1st
6thNY ISLANDERS75680.926.2%2nd
7thCAROLINA77582.004.7%3rd
8thANAHEIM77582.003.6%4th
9thWINNIPEG78583.062.7%5th
10thTAMPA BAY77683.082.1%6th
11thCOLORADO86389.271.5%7th
12thCALGARY85489.361.1%8th
13thWASHINGTON84589.450.8%9th
14thBUFFALO86591.580.5%10th
15thPHOENIX87592.650.0%15th
16thOTTAWA88593.710.0%16th
17thSAN JOSE88593.710.0%17th
18thLOS ANGELES88593.710.0%18th
19thDALLAS89594.780.0%19th
20thFLORIDA89696.030.0%20th
21stNEW JERSEY92597.970.0%21st
22ndCHICAGO93599.040.0%22nd
23rdBOSTON936100.340.0%23rd
24thNASHVILLE965102.230.0%24th
25thDETROIT975103.300.0%25th
26thPHILADELPHIA966103.580.0%26th
27thPITTSBURGH1006107.890.0%27th
28thVANCOUVER1035109.690.0%28th
29thNY RANGERS1055111.820.0%29th
30thST LOUIS1055111.820.0%30th

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03-29-2012, 10:19 AM
  #245
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I think the Zidz situation was what lost Yeo some street cred with the team, thats the point where to me the team just checked out big time. I still stand by the fact that Zidz should not have seen a second of ice time after his stunt, but Yeo put him in and I think the team as a general ruse saw that and just stopped trying.

If we're going on pure conjecture, I'd guess the Wild players probably have more respect for Zidlicky than you do. I don't think the team ever checked out. Their lack of talent was just exposed more and more as the games became more important. Rosters as thin as the Wild's don't cut it at crunch time.

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03-29-2012, 10:32 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
What's so short-sighted about the fact that the 2009 class didn't come from Fletcher's regime? There's no debate here. Yet the new regime gets credit for it, fairly or unfairly. If anything is short-sighted, it's saying that Fletcher deserves X amount of time because of drafts that have yet to see a player hit the pro leagues in North America. Let's evaluate the guy on what his job is really about - NHL personnel moves - instead of future maybes that other people directed.
No, actually, some if it did. Without Fletcher, there is no Hackett and no Haula. You're hanging your entire hat on Thompson picking Leddy. That's it. But yeah, go ahead and continue to completely ignore the prior five (FIVE!!) drafts. In the NHL as it is today, the easiest way to get young, cheap talent is through the draft. Riseborough and Thompson utterly failed at that for 4 straight years. I'm willing to see if Fletcher's first 3-4 years can be an improvement. If not, then he deserves your criticism, and mine. Tell me another way to get cheap, 21-25 year old talent on the roster. Please tell me. Do you know what you do when you fail in the draft like we did? You're forced to sign the Cullen's and the Nystroms of the NHL to make up for it.

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03-29-2012, 10:46 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Hey, maybe we could get back on topic? The Yeo/Fletcher/Playoffs/Voodoo talk can go back in the 2011-2012 Wild thread.

In regards to the Galchenyuk/Granlund comparison, Granlund has never been a natural goal scorer. He can pot goals, and make pretty plays, but he's a playmaker first, second, and third. Galchenyuk gets a lot of assists, and maybe he's even slightly pass first, but he's been playing with Yakupov. From what I've heard and seen, Granlund scores goals because no one else on his team will. Galchenyuk nets assists because he's playing with Yakupov. Here are some selected stats (picked from times there's enough GP to take a look):

Galchenyuk:
MWEHL: 38GP 44G 43A 87Pts
OHL: 70GP 31G 52A 83Pts

Granlund:
Int-Jr: 61GP 30G 58A 88Pts
Jr. A: 35GP 21G 36A 57Pts
SM-Liiga: 129GP 41G 86A 127Pts

Granlund's highest G:A ratio was just equal to Galchenyuk's lowest, and Granlund did that at the junior level (where individual play usually inflates goal totals). Galchenyuk actually has play where he's tallied more goals than assists.
There is nothing wrong with having a lot of good centers on a team. Get three of them and you are automatically a playoff team. Have a half-decent D and goalie corp, and you're a contender.

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03-29-2012, 12:10 PM
  #248
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If we were to select Galchenyuk, who would you want to be that center: Granlund or Galchenyuk?

E: And at the moment Galchenyuk is # 2 on my list and I really would love to have him to Wild!

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03-29-2012, 12:12 PM
  #249
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It would give a lot of options for the Wild, that's for sure.

Granlund - Koivu - Heatley
Zucker - Galchenyuk - Coyle
Larsson - Brodziak - Setoguchi
Bulmer - Powe - Clutterbuck

With guys like Phillips, Haula, Lucia waiting in the wings.

The defense would still be fairly weak though:

Brodin - Scandella
Gilbert - Stoner
Spurgeon - Prosser/Falk

On the other hand, get yourself a high end defenseman, and things look different:

Heatley - Koivu - Setoguchi
Zucker - Granlund - Coyle
Larsson - Brodziak - Clutterbuck
Bulmer - Powe - Kassian?

Brodin - Dumba
Gilbert - Scandella
Spurgeon - Stoner

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03-29-2012, 12:18 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Brodin - Dumba
Gilbert - Scandella
Spurgeon - Stoner
Providing everyone stays healthy () and performs up to expectations (), that looks formidable.

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