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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 2

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03-29-2012, 11:44 AM
  #251
nickschultzfan
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Not that this is a major consideration, but I think it is easier to sell the Wild to Parise and Suter if we drafted Galchenyuk over say Murray or Dumba.

"Hey Parise, how would you like to play with Koivu, Granlund, or Galchenyuk for the next 8 years?"

"Hey, Suter, you'll get all the minutes you want, have a decent young supporting cast behind you, and play with a really impressive group of forwards."

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03-29-2012, 11:48 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It would give a lot of options for the Wild, that's for sure.

Granlund - Koivu - Heatley
Zucker - Galchenyuk - Coyle
Larsson - Brodziak - Setoguchi
Bulmer - Powe - Clutterbuck

With guys like Phillips, Haula, Lucia waiting in the wings.

The defense would still be fairly weak though:

Brodin - Scandella
Gilbert - Stoner
Spurgeon - Prosser/Falk

On the other hand, get yourself a high end defenseman, and things look different:

Heatley - Koivu - Setoguchi
Zucker - Granlund - Coyle
Larsson - Brodziak - Clutterbuck
Bulmer - Powe - Kassian?

Brodin - Dumba
Gilbert - Scandella
Spurgeon - Stoner
Either one of those lineups looks pretty good. And with some actual top 6 depth in Houston next year, either lineup should be able to sustain a few injuries without a total collapse.

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03-29-2012, 11:49 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Not that this is a major consideration, but I think it is easier to sell the Wild to Parise and Suter if we drafted Galchenyuk over say Murray or Dumba.

"Hey Parise, how would you like to play with Koivu, Granlund, or Galchenyuk for the next 8 years?"

"Hey, Suter, you'll get all the minutes you want, have a decent young supporting cast behind you, and play with a really impressive group of forwards."
That is an excellent point.

Man I hope we can land one of them. If we somehow land both I think I'll joygasm so hard I explode.

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03-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #254
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Go hard after both and deal with the consequences later.

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03-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Not that this is a major consideration, but I think it is easier to sell the Wild to Parise and Suter if we drafted Galchenyuk over say Murray or Dumba.

"Hey Parise, how would you like to play with Koivu, Granlund, or Galchenyuk for the next 8 years?"

"Hey, Suter, you'll get all the minutes you want, have a decent young supporting cast behind you, and play with a really impressive group of forwards."
"Hey Parise, how would you like to play with Koivu, Granlund, or Galchenyuk for the next 8 years and be a minnesota hockey legend for the rest of your life?

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03-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by sioux210 View Post
"Hey Parise, how would you like to play with Koivu, Granlund, or Galchenyuk for the next 8 years and be a minnesota hockey legend for the rest of your life?
Parise could be a superstar here.

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03-29-2012, 12:47 PM
  #257
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Another reason why I want to draft Galchenyuk is I was in Chicago when Kane and Toews entered the NHL. They transformed a terrible Hawks team into Contenders in 2 seasons. If the Wild had end half that impact with Granlund and say Galchenyuk, that would be huge.

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03-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #258
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Again, back on topic:


Rumors had been leaking out that Montreal was not a fan of Grigorenko (although that could easily have been an attempt to dissuade Edmonton from picking him at #2). With Gauthier out, it's less clear the direction they could take. One of the rumored potential replacements for Gauthier is Patrick Roy...who just so happens to be a current member of the Quebec Remparts...kind of like Grigorenko...

So it's reasonable to think we could pick Galchenyuk up even if we're around 5th.

If we end up trading down a few spots, I might think we could take a look at Faksa. He's certainly not on the same level as Yak/Grig/Gal, but if we had theoretically traded down to 10th, I wouldn't mind picking him (assuming Ceci and Rielly are gone).

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03-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Parise could be a superstar here.
He seems to play really well with the young rookie Henrique centering him so I always thought maybe he could do the same with Granlund if he ever came here.

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03-29-2012, 12:51 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Again, back on topic:


Rumors had been leaking out that Montreal was not a fan of Grigorenko (although that could easily have been an attempt to dissuade Edmonton from picking him at #2). With Gauthier out, it's less clear the direction they could take. One of the rumored potential replacements for Gauthier is Patrick Roy...who just so happens to be a current member of the Quebec Remparts...kind of like Grigorenko...

So it's reasonable to think we could pick Galchenyuk up even if we're around 5th.

If we end up trading down a few spots, I might think we could take a look at Faksa. He's certainly not on the same level as Yak/Grig/Gal, but if we had theoretically traded down to 10th, I wouldn't mind picking him (assuming Ceci and Rielly are gone).
If we finish #2-4, trading down would have to be very worth it.

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03-29-2012, 01:00 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
If we finish #2-4, trading down would have to be very worth it.
I absolutely agree, although if we're 4th and the picks are Yak-Grig-Gal, I think dropping from Dumba/Murray to Ceci/Rielly/Trouba could be done for a reasonable price. However, let's say Washington somehow drops to get the 10th pick and Colorado somehow makes the playoffs and wins a round (making that pick around 23rd). Would 2nd overall (Grigorenko) plus 3rd rounder for 10th (Ceci/Rielly/Faksa) + 23rd (Bystrom? Maatta? Pouliot?) make sense? What about Tampa @ 9th (Ceci/Rielly/Faksa) and Detroit's pick (probably 18-20) for 2nd overall + WSH 2nd?

We could possibly pick up Rielly + Koekkoek and completely overhaul our defensive depth.

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03-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #262
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Why the heck would we trade down? We don't need depth. We need elite players.

Rather, I expect us to use our high 1st, then package Washington's 2nd with our high 3rd to move up in the 2nd round to draft a good Dman with a decent ceiling.

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03-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #263
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Would rather have Murray or Dumba than a defenseman from the tier below and some longshot in the 2nd/3rd round.

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03-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I absolutely agree, although if we're 4th and the picks are Yak-Grig-Gal, I think dropping from Dumba/Murray to Ceci/Rielly/Trouba could be done for a reasonable price. However, let's say Washington somehow drops to get the 10th pick and Colorado somehow makes the playoffs and wins a round (making that pick around 23rd). Would 2nd overall (Grigorenko) plus 3rd rounder for 10th (Ceci/Rielly/Faksa) + 23rd (Bystrom? Maatta? Pouliot?) make sense? What about Tampa @ 9th (Ceci/Rielly/Faksa) and Detroit's pick (probably 18-20) for 2nd overall + WSH 2nd?

We could possibly pick up Rielly + Koekkoek and completely overhaul our defensive depth.
Yeah, it really depends on how large you feel the gap between Murray/Dumba and the next "tier" of defenseman is. The forward gap seems to be much bigger. It all depends on what a team is willing to pay for that pick; if you get a Godfather offer, you have to seriously consider it.

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03-29-2012, 01:19 PM
  #265
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Who has done that in recent times, though, for the 4th pick?

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03-29-2012, 01:22 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Who has done that in recent times, though, for the 4th pick?
Nobody I can think of, and I don't think anybody will. Just thinking out loud.

Edit: Washington could really like Grigorenko or something. You never know.


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 03-29-2012 at 01:24 PM. Reason: New thoughts
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03-29-2012, 01:27 PM
  #267
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Seems like Murray gets very little love around these parts. I would gladly take him if We can't get Yak, Gal, or Grigs.

Murray Scandella
Gilbert Brodin

Would be a pretty nice top 4

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03-29-2012, 01:41 PM
  #268
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I like Murray a lot, have him probably the top defender and most NHL ready. But Dumba is intriguing too, more offensive and harder hitting.

I read a profile on Murray today (check the Prospects section) where he was constantly referred to as a guy who could contribute a lot more offense but holds himself back and passes off to the forwards. He thinks defense first as that was ingrained in his head by coaches.

What worries me is that he will stagnate offensively and become another Nick Schultz. Schultz had good offensive in juniors and upside but was coached to be defensive minded, and then he didn't produce at all in the NHL. Plus Murray stalled out offensively this year, which is a little disappointing.

I'd just hate to draft another Nick Schultz at 4th overall.

Meanwhile Dumba doubled his offense this year while being a physical force. I just think if you combine that kind of player with Brodin, an agile and efficient puck mover who thinks the game very well, you have a great versatile top pairing. And we do have Gilbert and Scandella to play the second pair.

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03-29-2012, 01:54 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Who has done that in recent times, though, for the 4th pick?
It was for the 2nd pick (plus later pick).

As for an example of 2nd overall's value: 4th overall + 2x 3rd rounders is approximately what the Canucks paid. Extrapolating values downward a late top 10 + 2nd half of 1st round pick would be approximately equivalent.

If Tampa does that, they take a huge step towards replacing an aging St. Louis or Lecavlier. It would also be a big statement move for Washington's new GM (because let's be honest, GMGM isn't going to keep his job if they miss the playoffs) that makes his mark on the franchise immediately.

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03-29-2012, 01:57 PM
  #270
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I love all this talk about Murray's "lack" of an offensive game. It's a joke.

First, doesn't anybody remember Murray putting up 10 points at the U18 tourney in 2011? He was second on the team behind Murphy! He was better than the forwards on the Canadian team! He put up more points than Zibanejad, McNeil, and Mr. Filip Forsberg in that tournament!

Second, this year at the WJC, he was in the middle of the pack on that blueline, and he was with guys older than him.

Finally, in the WHL playoffs, he just put up 3 goals, 5 points, in 4 games.

I've said this before, if the guy didn't get hurt this year, he would have put up 55 points in the WHL, and we would all be magically taking about how great is "offensive" ability is and how great it will project onto the NHL.

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03-29-2012, 01:57 PM
  #271
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I like how Dumba would look next to Brodin, but don't really like him as a player. I think he's a perfect fit, but just don't care for him. Also, his size terrifies me (unless he's grown a bit). I'm not a fan of Murray. He's way too defense first, and I don't want to just assume he'll suddenly "get over that" if we bring him in.

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03-29-2012, 02:00 PM
  #272
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He's probably closer to 180 now than 165 listed at the start of the year. I'm sure he'll end up 6' or a little taller and 180-190.

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03-29-2012, 02:01 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I love all this talk about Murray's "lack" of an offensive game. It's a joke.

First, doesn't anybody remember Murray putting up 10 points at the U18 tourney in 2011? He was second on the team behind Murphy! He was better than the forwards on the Canadian team! He put up more points than Zibanejad, McNeil, and Mr. Filip Forsberg in that tournament!

Second, this year at the WJC, he was in the middle of the pack on that blueline, and he was with guys older than him.

Finally, in the WHL playoffs, he just put up 3 goals, 5 points, in 4 games.

I've said this before, if the guy didn't get hurt this year, he would have put up 55 points in the WHL, and we would all be magically taking about how great is "offensive" ability is and how great it will project onto the NHL.
Murray was on pace for 47 points this year. He was on pace for almost identical stats to last year. That's what discourages me most about him is, injury excuses aside, he hasn't improved his offensive numbers at all. Some players hit their ceiling early, and I see a threat that Murray has done just that offensively.

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03-29-2012, 02:04 PM
  #274
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He's probably closer to 180 now than 165 listed at the start of the year. I'm sure he'll end up 6' or a little taller and 180-190.
I guess he's not really any smaller than Kronwall, so maybe my fears are misplaced. I still don't like it.

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03-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #275
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Murray was on pace for 47 points this year. He was on pace for almost identical stats to last year. That's what discourages me most about him is, injury excuses aside, he hasn't improved his offensive numbers at all. Some players hit their ceiling early, and I see a threat that Murray has done just that offensively.
murray was injured for a good bit there and his team is beyond ****ing bad, you know unless you are bobby ****ing orr you need a good group for forwards to help you as a defenseman.

his is the best dman available and the one with the highest ceiling and the one who is most likely to reach his ceiling. i see him going number 2 to eddy, but if he is there when we pick we take him with a grin on our face.

he is smart, moves the puck, has offense him and brodin in 3 years could be hanging 25 min a game making sure the other team is shut down, you have that with the forward group we could have and we could be a dangerous team to play against.

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