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Why do habs lose so many good young players before they're good?

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Old
03-30-2012, 08:36 PM
  #1
Habs4ever
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Why do habs lose so many good young players before they're good?

I could list all the young players lost and are performing remarkably well; and we gave them away for almost free.

In last ten years, We have drafted very well, and found some real gem out of draft; yet, lot of young players are flourishing and making their mark with other teams

So, is this something that new management should look at and handle better? I really would like to see home grown prospects doing good with my team and not the leafs or the rangers...

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03-30-2012, 08:39 PM
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xduckiex
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The fans/media are impatient and drive them out of town before they really have a chance

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03-30-2012, 08:42 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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I think it falls on management. We've been so ready to jump toward quick fixes and making the playoffs that we've lost sight of the importance of development. We've made some really dumb decisions along the way and it's really hurt us.

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03-30-2012, 08:45 PM
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Franck
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Do you really need to have someone else tell you that it is the result of bad management?

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The fans/media are impatient and drive them out of town before they really have a chance
The fans and the media don't run the team.

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03-30-2012, 08:46 PM
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sheed36
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The management team of BG and PG were terrible for giving away young players.. Thankfully both are now out so hopefully giving away young promising players for nothing stops.

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03-30-2012, 08:47 PM
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Craig71
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If Molsons words were true then I guess those days are over. I for one will believe it when I see it.

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03-30-2012, 08:49 PM
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delete

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Old
03-30-2012, 08:51 PM
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MJG
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
The management team of BG and PG were terrible for giving away young players.. Thankfully both are now out so hopefully giving away young promising players for nothing stops.
This. Nothing wrong with trading young players but we so rarely get fair value. Too many of them were just given away. Trades like O'byrbe are okay. Trades like Sergei are not.

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03-30-2012, 08:56 PM
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Burke the Legend
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None of the players the habs have traded have gone on to win anything. Why are people so bent out of shape?

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03-30-2012, 09:02 PM
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JLP
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Management wants to make the playoffs and they've acted to short-term goals. Young players get ego problems because they're mobbed in Montreal where in other markets they could walk the streets anonymous. Fans and media have an unusually large influence in this market, some guys get run out of town, I think management decides "Okay that's it, X has to go" and then he's shipped out to whomever makes an offer, we sell low all the time, Nashville has two young top-six wingers they got from us for a total of one late 2nd that's just wrong.

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03-30-2012, 09:03 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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None of the players the habs have traded have gone on to win anything. Why are people so bent out of shape?
They miss third liners?

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03-30-2012, 09:10 PM
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Low expectations+impatience. Even Pacioretty wasn't considered by the masses as a potential 1st liner. We let McDonagh go...beacuse he wasn't doing enough on offense...and so on...

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03-30-2012, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
None of the players the habs have traded have gone on to win anything. Why are people so bent out of shape?
Because, in tonight's game as an example, we are dressing Nokelainen, Staubitz, Campoli, Bourque, Blunden, Palushaj, St-Denis and Geoffrion. Many of the players we traded away are better than the players I just listed. People are upset because we would probably be a better team if we still had some of the players we traded. The argument that they have never won is short sighted and foolish. I could name numerous players that have won Cups that aren't very good. Many of the players we traded are good players on good teams that will be playing in the playoffs this year. That's why we're pissed. It's building a winning team and we got rid of good pieces for next to nothing on more than one occasion.

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03-30-2012, 09:12 PM
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hey there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
None of the players the habs have traded have gone on to win anything. Why are people so bent out of shape?
I am not looking for 50 goal scorer or franchise defencemen; but when your team trades away good player and they do good with other teams, I do feel bad because the parts we've replaced them with obviously are not doing good.

Gainey made his mark with roster changes but I think he over did it when he took prospects that Timmins drafted and shipped them off for almost nothing.

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03-30-2012, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
They miss third liners?
Ignorant comment. It's okay to trade a player if Managemet believes it's necessary. It is not okay to give them away. Sergei Kostitsyn is a first liner on a Cup contending team. We gave him away. That's poor asset Management. It is a big reason why were at the bottom of the conference.

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03-30-2012, 09:14 PM
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Qui Gon Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think it falls on management. We've been so ready to jump toward quick fixes and making the playoffs that we've lost sight of the importance of development. We've made some really dumb decisions along the way and it's really hurt us.
This is basically what I was going to say, only more concise

It's unrealistic to expect the Stanley Cup every year these days, but the playoffs is a very achievable goal each year. Because we don't tend to have a team that powers into the playoffs comfortably, we are fighting for every point we can get to just make it in. When you are fighting for points in such a manner, you are more likely to accomplish your goal using experienced players than young guys trying to learn how to make it in the league. So the veterans on the team have more responsibility and every year we acquire a vet or two during the season who knocks a young player that one notch further down the depth list (MAB, Schneider, Wiz, Moore, Metropolit, Noke, etc). This affects the development of the guys who are borderline for us.

The quality youth we have will find a spot to call their own (Pleks, Patches, Price, Subban for example) and the guys who aren't good enough won't last long. But the borderline guys, who need time and some responsibility to develop, get less and less. And we reach the point that they aren't the player we need them to be, so we trade them (usually for future assests) or let them go and they land on a team that gives them that time and opportunity to develop into what they are capable of becoming. The one year we did power into the playoffs (07-08), we had the youngest team in the playoffs and we were excited about all the quality youth we had making it into the team. In the following years, we were, for the most part, battling to get in.

There's obviously more to it that just that, but I think that outlines a familiar issue with the Habs in recent years.

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Old
03-30-2012, 09:14 PM
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**** I miss Streit.

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Old
03-30-2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Ignorant comment. It's okay to trade a player if Managemet believes it's necessary. It is not okay to give them away. Sergei Kostitsyn is a first liner on a Cup contending team. We gave him away. That's poor asset Management. It is a big reason why were at the bottom of the conference.
SK has 43 points with a week left, that's not 1st line production on any team.

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03-30-2012, 09:17 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Ignorant comment. It's okay to trade a player if Managemet believes it's necessary. It is not okay to give them away. Sergei Kostitsyn is a first liner on a Cup contending team. We gave him away. That's poor asset Management. It is a big reason why were at the bottom of the conference.

Sure thing muffin.

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Old
03-30-2012, 09:20 PM
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This is a myth. Seriously give me names. Who really left and became a star elsewhere? Leclair is the last one I can think of. Grabovski might be considered as well but we didn't need him and we have better centers now.

Ryder was already a 30 goals scorer here, carbo ruined him
Ribeiro was already good he was just a headcase and trading him was necessary
Latendresse is more injured than often
D'agostini is a 3rd liner at best
Pouliot proved that he's a bust
Akost is had plenty of chances here and he'll be the Akost that we know wherever he goes
Sergei was an unfortunate loss, we knew he'd be good but he was stupid here. And it's not like he's destroying the league. He's a decent 2nd line winger.

Who else?

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03-30-2012, 09:23 PM
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Craig71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Ignorant comment. It's okay to trade a player if Managemet believes it's necessary. It is not okay to give them away. Sergei Kostitsyn is a first liner on a Cup contending team. We gave him away. That's poor asset Management. It is a big reason why were at the bottom of the conference.
Correction....Sergei Kostitsyn is a first line player on an offensively challenged playoff team that has the two best defenseman in the world on it.

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03-30-2012, 09:23 PM
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hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
This is a myth. Seriously give me names. Who really left and became a star elsewhere? Leclair is the last one I can think of. Grabovski might be considered as well but we didn't need him and we have better centers now.

Ryder was already a 30 goals scorer here, carbo ruined him
Ribeiro was already good he was just a headcase and trading him was necessary
Latendresse is more injured than often
D'agostini is a 3rd liner at best
Pouliot proved that he's a bust
Akost is had plenty of chances here and he'll be the Akost that we know wherever he goes
Sergei was an unfortunate loss, we knew he'd be good but he was stupid here. And it's not like he's destroying the league. He's a decent 2nd line winger.

Who else?
What do we have to show for any of these players?

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03-30-2012, 09:24 PM
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Qui Gon Dave
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Sergei is one of the 4th highest point scoring forwards on Nashville's team. He plays on a line with two of the three forwards ahead of him in point scoring. Around the league, that might not be 1st line numbers, but within the structure of the Preds, he is very much on the 1st line. Just cos it doesn't sound impressive doesn't make it any less true that he is playing on the 1st line in Nashville. The Preds have a score by committee approach, which the Habs seemed to be aiming for, but failed to acheive. It does work for Nashville though. Nobody puts up huge numbers, but their scoring depth gets the job done.

Around the rest of the league, SK wouldn't be a 1st liner on a lot of teams, but he doesn't play in the rest of the league, he plays in Nashville. And in Nashville, he plays on what can easily be considered as the #1 line on a team that is doing very well this year.

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03-30-2012, 09:25 PM
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Shaby23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
This is a myth. Seriously give me names. Who really left and became a star elsewhere? Leclair is the last one I can think of. Grabovski might be considered as well but we didn't need him and we have better centers now.

Ryder was already a 30 goals scorer here, carbo ruined him
Ribeiro was already good he was just a headcase and trading him was necessary
Latendresse is more injured than often
D'agostini is a 3rd liner at best
Pouliot proved that he's a bust
Akost is had plenty of chances here and he'll be the Akost that we know wherever he goes
Sergei was an unfortunate loss, we knew he'd be good but he was stupid here. And it's not like he's destroying the league. He's a decent 2nd line winger.

Who else?
Ryan Mcdonagh

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Old
03-30-2012, 09:27 PM
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MoldyCakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Ignorant comment. It's okay to trade a player if Managemet believes it's necessary. It is not okay to give them away. Sergei Kostitsyn is a first liner on a Cup contending team. We gave him away. That's poor asset Management. It is a big reason why were at the bottom of the conference.
Nashville's listed first line is usually Legwand's line...SK is usually on Fisher's line. First line production usually is 60 or more points....

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