Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Going by many threads in this forum, it seems that Phoenix and St. Louis make good natural trading partners, given that they are desperate from some competent LH defencemen, especially on the top pairing. From the Coyotes' perspective, a legit #1 center would obviously help the team a great deal in the next few seasons; they might also want to bring in someone that will be the successor to Doan in a couple of years. So both teams have plenty of what the other have in need, so a few proposals:
1):
Yandle + 3rd in 2013
Stewart + Cole + Rattie + 1st in 2012
blues give up many valuable players, but which are also spare parts not central to the longer plan of the organisation, and get the player that will solidify their defence corps. The Coyotes get a PF that still has potential and a chance to replace Doan's place in the organization, a good D prospect to round out the D in a year or two, a long term prospect at centre with decent potential, and a pick.
2):
Gormley + Boedker + conditional 1st (if Tarasenko signs in Phx)
Backes + Tarasenko + Rattie
similar to above, but the blues give up their #1 centre, but gets a potential top 2 D for the future, and the rest is more or less moving around to keep the value even.
3):
OEL
Backes + Oshie
simple deal, potentially another franchise D to play with Pietrangelo, for two of the better physical young forwards in the game, pretty even value.
For those who didn't like the original deals, here's some revised ones:
1)
Yandle,
Stewart, Rattie, McRae, 1st
--the blues get the stud D on the left side that they need, and the Yotes get a number of players that have potential and can strengthen forward ranks within the next few years, with 1 (stewart) that can turn it around and make an impact next season.
2)
Gormley, Boedker, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Schwartz, Rattie
--the blues flip their 2nd line center for a potential top 2 D to play with Alex, and a blue chip prospect at forward. The Yotes get two potentially lethal centers in Berglund and Rattie for the future, with one of them ready to step in right away, the other pieces are just there to even out the values.
3)
OEL, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Stewart, Rattie
--the blues get another potential franchise D with sky high ceiling to form one of the most formidable top 3 Ds in the league. The Yotes get two good forwards for now that still have good potential to improve their production, and another potential top 2 center down the road; the pick is there to sweeten it a little.
Interestingly the only package I could see us MAYBE giving up is for the best player the Coyotes are giving up.
1) It's a lot to give up but Stewart is expendable and Cole can easily be moved for Yandle. Remove the 1st and you might have fair value for a great d-man.
2) I wouldn't give up Tarasenko straight up for Gormley and Backes+Rattie for Boeddker and a conditional 1st is awful. Bad deal.
3) Backes and Oshie are never going to be moved, let alone in the same trade. Either one of them would require Yandle.
Work around a Stewart for Gormley base and the Blues and Coyotes can make a deal.
Blues are giving up way too much in every one of these scenarios.
I like OEL and Boedker, but I'm damned if I tear the Blues' chemistry apart to acquire them... this reminds me too much of the Garth Butcher deal 20 years ago.
2nd and 3rd deals have no chance period. David Backes isn't going anywhere ever. They are really really awful. 2nd deal tops anything I've seen from even Leaf fans
As for the first one, I'd consider Stewart, Cole, and a 1st for Keith Yandle.
2 and 3 are non-starters. 2 is putrid beyond belief from a Blues perspective and 3 is pointless. Coyotes fans correctly see OEL as untouchable AND dealing Backes and Oshie creates two holes to fill one, which is moronic from a Blues perspective.
#1, however, is close. You take out the 3d from Phoenix and make it either Cole or a 1st, Phoenix' choice. I suspect they'd take the 1st given how many bodies are there on D.
–Yandle for
–Stewart + Rattie + choice of Cole/1st.
Well, this pretty well illustrates why Yandle won't be traded. It takes a huge overpayment to make Coyotes fans pause. When Blues fans try to even the value out, Yotes fans completely lose interest.
Personally, I see no reason why the Coyotes should trade any of Yandle, OEL, Rundblad, Schlemko, Summers, Stone, Gormley or Murphy. We've spent the assets on them, we've burnt the development time, we may as well see it through and find out what we've got. Why go making trades before we know?
Well, this pretty well illustrates why Yandle won't be traded. It takes a huge overpayment to make Coyotes fans pause. When Blues fans try to even the value out, Yotes fans completely lose interest.
Personally, I see no reason why the Coyotes should trade any of Yandle, OEL, Rundblad, Schlemko, Summers, Stone, Gormley or Murphy. We've spent the assets on them, we've burnt the development time, we may as well see it through and find out what we've got. Why go making trades before we know?
He cribbed #1 from a specific idea I advanced in the contemporaneous value of Yandle thread and then balanced it much more in Phoenix' favor (adding a Blues 1st and a Coyotes 3d) and all I did was return it back to what it was when he first saw it. That proposal wasn't an opener, it was a carefully considered final offer that addresses Phoenix' system needs. It's neither overpayment or underpayment. You guys are overloaded on D. You listed eight names and didn't mention Klesla, who's been strong this year and healthy finally, and is under contract for two more seasons. You've got tons of bodies (which is also why Cole going back in a Yandle trade doesn't seem to make much sense and why I made it "at Phoenix' option") on D.
Look, I love Keith Yandle, I've watched a lot of Coyotes games this year and you'll get no quarrel from me when you say you love him too. If I were you guys I'd keep Yandle since he's ripe now and deal Gormley. Gormley won't return as much as Yandle but he'll still get you some good stuff. I'd do Gormley and a 2d for Stewart and Rattie. Doan and Whitney are old and the forward prospect cupboard is pretty bare. That's why you need to trade before you test drive every last D. The Blues were high on Rundblad but traded him to get Tarasenko because they were loaded at RD organizationally and needed more system strength on the wings. It's not giving up, it's just balancing the organization.
For us, despite his down year, Stewart is totally serviceable and still plenty young but when Tarasenko signs we have a forward overload the way you have an LD overload. Not having Gormley still leaves you loaded on LD without losing anyone off the roster.
He cribbed #1 from a specific idea I advanced in the contemporaneous value of Yandle thread and then balanced it much more in Phoenix' favor (adding a Blues 1st and a Coyotes 3d) and all I did was return it back to what it was when he first saw it. That proposal wasn't an opener, it was a carefully considered final offer that addresses Phoenix' system needs. It's neither overpayment or underpayment. You guys are overloaded on D. You listed eight names and didn't mention Klesla, who's been strong this year and healthy finally, and is under contract for two more seasons. You've got tons of bodies (which is also why Cole going back in a Yandle trade doesn't seem to make much sense and why I made it "at Phoenix' option") on D.
Look, I love Keith Yandle, I've watched a lot of Coyotes games this year and you'll get no quarrel from me when you say you love him too. If I were you guys I'd keep Yandle since he's ripe now and deal Gormley. Gormley won't return as much as Yandle but he'll still get you some good stuff. I'd do Gormley and a 2d for Stewart and Rattie. Doan and Whitney are old and the forward prospect cupboard is pretty bare. That's why you need to trade before you test drive every last D. The Blues were high on Rundblad but traded him to get Tarasenko because they were loaded at RD organizationally and needed more system strength on the wings. It's not giving up, it's just balancing the organization.
For us, despite his down year, Stewart is totally serviceable and still plenty young but when Tarasenko signs we have a forward overload the way you have an LD overload. Not having Gormley still leaves you loaded on LD without losing anyone off the roster.
That's true, I got the idea about the Blues and Yotes being good partners from other threads, as I said in the first post; that includes your previous proposals as well.
Yes, as you said, the Yotes are very heavy on D right now, both at the professional levels, as well as lower in the organisational chart in long-term prospects. It seems that some of them are needed to maintain this as an organisational strength in the long run; which will probably mean 3 out of 4 of the blue chip players/prospects: Yandle, OEL, Gormley, Rundblad; and at least two of the next tier of prospects graduate to solidify their status as NHL regulars, from among: Schlemko, Murphy, Summers, Goncharov, etc....
The key here is that allowing the one(s) that we trade to mature enough on the development curve to garner some decent returns according to their potentials, as I said in the other thread. This means to assume some risks in development, which is not a huge issue since our system is so replete with them. This means that the most logical ones to try to move within the next season is either Yandle or OEL, each of which should command a significant package coming back, and can really jump start our forward ranks, and balance the team out more. At the same time, hopefully one of Gormley or Rundblad would be able to step in to anchor the other pairing.
Yeah, I think Cole is not a critical part of any package, being another LHD, although I think the value of the first deal that I proposed is still closer than yours, given that each of Stewart, Cole is on the outs with coach Hitchcock, and Rattie while talented, is far from a sure thing to even making it in the big league. So if you want to take out Cole, them maybe something a little more of a sure thing than Stewart, someone like Backes or Steen would be required, something like:
OK, for those of you complaining about the 2nd and 3rd proposals, how about these revised deals:
1)
Yandle,
Stewart, Rattie, McRae, 1st
--the blues get the stud D on the left side that they need, and the Yotes get a number of players that have potential and can strengthen forward ranks within the next few years, with 1 (stewart) that can turn it around and make an impact next season.
2)
Gormley, Boedker, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Schwartz, Rattie
--the blues flip their 2nd line center for a potential top 2 D to play with Alex, and a blue chip prospect at forward. The Yotes get two potentially lethal centers in Berglund and Rattie for the future, with one of them ready to step in right away, the other pieces are just there to even out the values.
3)
OEL, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Stewart, Rattie
--the blues get another potential franchise D with sky high ceiling to form one of the most formidable top 3 Ds in the league. The Yotes get two good forwards for now that still have good potential to improve their production, and another potential top 2 center down the road; the pick is there to sweeten it a little.
OK, for those of you complaining about the 2nd and 3rd proposals, how about these revised deals:
1)
Yandle,
Stewart, Rattie, McRae, 1st
--the blues get the stud D on the left side that they need, and the Yotes get a number of players that have potential and can strengthen forward ranks within the next few years, with 1 (stewart) that can turn it around and make an impact next season.
This isn't bad. Curious how others feel about it. I would probably say yes
1)
Yandle,
Stewart, Rattie, McRae, 1st
--the blues get the stud D on the left side that they need, and the Yotes get a number of players that have potential and can strengthen forward ranks within the next few years, with 1 (stewart) that can turn it around and make an impact next season.
Not awful but too much offense to give up. Rattie-McRae-Stewart could almost be our 3rd line next year if we really needed Rattie to play, but we don't.
Replace Rattie with Cole and I'd have no problem with it. With us getting Yandle, parting with Cole wouldn't hurt. He is good but Yandle and Jackman could eat 45 minutes a night on the top 2 pairings.
This would leave Cade Fairchild to play with Roman Polak on the 3rd pairing. I like that match for 15-18 minutes a night. Fairchild has been great in Peoria this year and didn't look out of place in St. Louis.
2)
Gormley, Boedker, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Schwartz, Rattie
--the blues flip their 2nd line center for a potential top 2 D to play with Alex, and a blue chip prospect at forward. The Yotes get two potentially lethal centers in Berglund and Rattie for the future, with one of them ready to step in right away, the other pieces are just there to even out the values.
Gormley for Schwartz would make a nice 1 for 1 swap.
That leaves Berglund and Rattie for Boedker and a 2nd in 2013. Awful. Pass. That also leaves Jason Arnott as our #2 center for next year. Berglund just can't be moved without a center coming back.
Quote:
3)
OEL, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Stewart, Rattie
--the blues get another potential franchise D with sky high ceiling to form one of the most formidable top 3 Ds in the league. The Yotes get two good forwards for now that still have good potential to improve their production, and another potential top 2 center down the road; the pick is there to sweeten it a little.
Way too much to give up for one defenseman. You may think that Berglund and Stewart have terrible value because they are having down years but Berglund has been great in the 2nd half for us as a 2 way center and Stewart was a 28 goal scorer one year ago at the age of 23. We aren't going to package them with our #3-4 prospect for one up and coming d-man.
Berglund really has grown into his role nicely in Hitchcock's system. He'll remain the Blues #2 center for awhile and I look for him to come back with a 50 point season next year now that he has gotten used to what Hitch wants from him. He has 17 points in 29 games since the All-Star break. Not an amazing pace but much better than 20 points in 49 games before the break.
I still think Berglund is just too slow and doesn't have the vision to ever be the 65-70 point #1 center people thought he could be. But he could easily be around a 50 point #2 center for a long time.
OK, for those of you complaining about the 2nd and 3rd proposals, how about these revised deals:
1)
Yandle,
Stewart, Rattie, McRae, 1st
--the blues get the stud D on the left side that they need, and the Yotes get a number of players that have potential and can strengthen forward ranks within the next few years, with 1 (stewart) that can turn it around and make an impact next season.
2)
Gormley, Boedker, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Schwartz, Rattie
--the blues flip their 2nd line center for a potential top 2 D to play with Alex, and a blue chip prospect at forward. The Yotes get two potentially lethal centers in Berglund and Rattie for the future, with one of them ready to step in right away, the other pieces are just there to even out the values.
3)
OEL, 2nd in 2013
Berglund, Stewart, Rattie
--the blues get another potential franchise D with sky high ceiling to form one of the most formidable top 3 Ds in the league. The Yotes get two good forwards for now that still have good potential to improve their production, and another potential top 2 center down the road; the pick is there to sweeten it a little.
2 & 3 are really bad trades for the Blues to make. The value isn't fair and they both create big holes in our roster.
1 is a lot better, but still looks like it needs a little evening out.
