it was noted on the main board that Wang could only insure the first 6 years of DP's contract, and if he was healthy after that, he could insure the rest.
Well this happens to be the sixth year. I'd be curious what the standard for "healthy" is. If he can still play, does that insurance kick in? If so, is DP hanging around until that point to help Wang?
This has always been my understanding of the situation:
If Ricky goes on the DL, insurance kicks in. If Ricky retires insurance is unnecessary as he voids the contract (whether its caused by injury or otherwise).
Wang had to insure 5 years (I believe, although it may be 6) because the NHL wouldn't insure a contract past 10 years (or 9). Not sure whether Wang's insurance has the buttend or the front end of the contract (I would suspect it would be the last 5 years that's on Wang and not the first 5).
I believe that you both are partially right / wrong. If I remember correctly, Wang had to insure the entire contract himself, because no company would touch it. The whole point of signing a long term contract for less money is that the ENTIRE contract is guaranteed (at least in the NHL anyway), so if a player, ie DP, gets hurt he can retire and still collect the full value of the contract.
The reason he hasent retired is most likely 2 fold. 1) He still wants to play, and 2) he is helping the Islanders meet the cap floor, which is why he was not placed on long term IR (the salary then comes off the books, but is still paid to the player)
2) he is helping the Islanders meet the cap floor, which is why he was not placed on long term IR (the salary then comes off the books, but is still paid to the player)
I don't think being on IR makes any difference to the Cap. the only difference would be that if the Islanders were up against the cap max, they could get somebody to cover the time he was away but in terms of the cap min IR or not it counts.
I believe that you both are partially right / wrong. If I remember correctly, Wang had to insure the entire contract himself, because no company would touch it. The whole point of signing a long term contract for less money is that the ENTIRE contract is guaranteed (at least in the NHL anyway), so if a player, ie DP, gets hurt he can retire and still collect the full value of the contract.
The reason he hasent retired is most likely 2 fold. 1) He still wants to play, and 2) he is helping the Islanders meet the cap floor, which is why he was not placed on long term IR (the salary then comes off the books, but is still paid to the player)
If this is correct, we shouldn't expect to see him and his 4.5 cap hit gone until at least 2015, buyout clauses or not.
At what point does the league step in and pull the plug on these shenanigans? Maybe in return for revenue sharing?
Grasping at straws...
I believe that you both are partially right / wrong. If I remember correctly, Wang had to insure the entire contract himself, because no company would touch it. The whole point of signing a long term contract for less money is that the ENTIRE contract is guaranteed (at least in the NHL anyway), so if a player, ie DP, gets hurt he can retire and still collect the full value of the contract.
The reason he hasent retired is most likely 2 fold. 1) He still wants to play, and 2) he is helping the Islanders meet the cap floor, which is why he was not placed on long term IR (the salary then comes off the books, but is still paid to the player)
An NHL contract is guaranteed if a player doesn't retire. This is why someone like Marc Savard hasn't officially retired (due to injury, or otherwise), if he does he can no longer collect.
I am almost certain that the Islanders are completely in the clear if DiPietro retires for any reason.
This is what Cicarelli said in Boston regarding Savard:
“If Savvy retires, he would not be entitled to the benefits of the contract,’’ Chiarelli told Shinzawa.
Insurance kicks in if/when someone is not able to perform his end of the contract (although the other party is still liable for his share), so in hockey this would be the DL.
When people are saying Wang "self-insured" the contract, its not that he himself is the insurance carrier (which would be illogical), he simply had to find insurance outside the NHL's policy carrier. Think about it, the CBA requires every contract to be insured so as to not screw the player over. If the owner is paying the player and "self-insuring" that wouldn't be acceptable for the PA as its not really insurance.
I don't think being on IR makes any difference to the Cap. the only difference would be that if the Islanders were up against the cap max, they could get somebody to cover the time he was away but in terms of the cap min IR or not it counts.
im pretty sure youre right. i wouldnt swear to it in court, but i think thats how it works.
its something really stupid........the players salary doesnt come off the books--even if its long term--its that the team can go that much ( that players salary ) over the cap. they dont give you your cap room back, they give you extra cap room. or something goofy like that.
also, i think the contract is insured through the league or players association for the first 7 years and wang had to insure the rest. again, i would not swear to it in court.
An NHL contract is guaranteed if a player doesn't retire. This is why someone like Marc Savard hasn't officially retired (due to injury, or otherwise), if he does he can no longer collect.
I am almost certain that the Islanders are completely in the clear if DiPietro retires for any reason.
This is what Cicarelli said in Boston regarding Savard:
Insurance kicks in if/when someone is not able to perform his end of the contract (although the other party is still liable for his share), so in hockey this would be the DL.
When people are saying Wang "self-insured" the contract, its not that he himself is the insurance carrier (which would be illogical), he simply had to find insurance outside the NHL's policy carrier. Think about it, the CBA requires every contract to be insured so as to not screw the player over. If the owner is paying the player and "self-insuring" that wouldn't be acceptable for the PA as its not really insurance.
You are only partially correct. A comment left (by user Domonic) on a news article states
"What Fluto fails to mention is the type of retirement. While its true if Savard retires he is not entitled to collect his salary, it is not true that if he is forced to retire because of his concussion (and a team of Doctors will have to come to that conclusion) the CBA ensures under section 23.4 page 107 http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf that he will be paid by either the team, or in this case insurance.
It’s misleading to say that if he retires he won’t collect without saying if he retires on Doctors orders that he will collect."
I looked at the CBA and he is EXACTLY right. It all depends on what kind of retirement. So the fact that the Rick keeps trying to play, and the doctors clear him to, means he wont collect if he retires. He needs to be told by doctors that he cannot play, and then he would collect. Check out the CBA for yourself.
You are only partially correct. A comment left (by user Domonic) on a news article states
"What Fluto fails to mention is the type of retirement. While its true if Savard retires he is not entitled to collect his salary, it is not true that if he is forced to retire because of his concussion (and a team of Doctors will have to come to that conclusion) the CBA ensures under section 23.4 page 107 http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf that he will be paid by either the team, or in this case insurance.
It’s misleading to say that if he retires he won’t collect without saying if he retires on Doctors orders that he will collect."
I looked at the CBA and he is EXACTLY right. It all depends on what kind of retirement. So the fact that the Rick keeps trying to play, and the doctors clear him to, means he wont collect if he retires. He needs to be told by doctors that he cannot play, and then he would collect. Check out the CBA for yourself.
one caveat: if he can play, is cleared and can't play well but instead looks like Brendan Witt out there and thus can't keep a job, he's gonna have a battle to have insurance pay for him, I believe. I think he has to retire when his injury re-occurs to get leverage because there will be parties sure to fight any payout.
NHL Insurance Plan Covers Player Contracts For Seven Years
The NHL's insurance plan insures player contracts for seven years, and "beyond that, if the player gets hurt, the team is on the hook for the full amount of his contract," according to Luke DeCock of the Raleigh NEWS & OBSERVER. As part of the plan, which the NHL purchases through New York-based insurance broker BWD Group, NHL teams are "required to insure a handful of players through a 'temporary total disability' program administered by the league." Each team "pays a premium based on the salaries of its five highest-paid players, but is free to allocate that coverage how it wishes." NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said that "typically, a team will extend coverage to as many as seven players."
...
DeCock noted individual teams "are free to pursue additional coverage, but the heavy premiums make it a losing proposition." Rutherford said that "seeking private insurance to cover a longer deal is prohibitively expensive."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
After the maximum period covered by NHL disability insurance for example the Isles on the Dipietro contract would have to buy supplementary insurance for the remaining eight years which can be prohibitive or self-insure.
Also it does not cover all the players on the roster. This was written during Eric Staal's contract negotiations and focuses on contract length and insurance issues:
Quote:
The league purchases its disability insurance through the BWD Group, a Long Island, N.Y., insurance broker that also obtains coverage for the NBA, WNBA and Major League Baseball. (One underwriter, the Chubb Corporation, touted its relationship with the NHL in its 2001 annual report.)
Each team pays a premium based on the salaries of its five highest-paid players, but is free to allocate that coverage how it wishes. Typically, a team will extend coverage to as many as seven players, Daly said. Coverage kicks in when a player misses at least 30 games.
Beyond that, individual teams are free to pursue additional coverage, but the heavy premiums make it a losing proposition. To insure a player under the league program, it costs about 5 percent of his salary. To insure additional players, it would cost substantially more.
“Usually it works out that we have five players under the league program,” Rutherford said. “When you get to a certain dollar amount, the premiums keep skyrocketing. I wish it was easier to get each [player] insured, but we can’t do that. …
“If you wanted, you could insure all the contracts, but it would be very expensive.”
It has one comment on DP's contract - but no comment on whether the Isles were able to get add'l 3rd party coverage.
Quote:
In September 2006, the Islanders signed DiPietro to a 15-year contract worth $67.5 million. The deal was held up for more than a year, in part by insurance issues, according to reports at the time.
The league policy, at that point, would only insure six years of the contract, leaving the Islanders potentially responsible for more than $40 million in the case of a catastrophic injury -- and in the first two years of the deal, DiPietro has suffered two concussions and undergone two hip surgeries.
An Islanders spokesman declined to comment on the insurance issues surrounding DiPietro's contract.
Also note, that even if DP is ever cleared to play and the Isles try to get extended coverage, the insurer (BWD) could make exclusions in coverage related to previous injuries.
Quote:
This season, the Hurricanes will pay almost $1 million for $19 million of coverage through the league program, but even that process isn't simple. Insurers may balk at something as specific as an individual body part.
The Hurricanes were able to insure Justin Williams last season despite a previous injury to his right knee, Rutherford said. They received insurance payments when he missed more than three months with a serious injury to the same knee, but they wouldn't be able to insure that knee again this season.
,
