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if he's not, Edmonton would take the deal for sure. They'd still get one of the dmen they want with the 5th overall pick and they'd add a prospect, and a young dman with top 4 potential, who struggled this year, but still possesses the tools to be a solid top 4 dman. It'd be a lot to give up for Toronto, but if they really want Grigs, it's probably gonna cost something similar. Remember, there will be other team's bidding for that pick too, so it's not going to be cheap.
Iowa lasted one single season, so either he played 14 games in that season or he didn't. You re-emphasizing what I should or shouldn't read doesn't make your numbers right, as the AHL's official numbers bear out.
Regardless, there are few things more worthless than comparing AHL scoring to NHL success. In any given year, there's a good number of young AHL players who put up numbers and yet either aren't NHL prospects or, if they are, don't make it in the NHL. I remember every year, when Justin Papineau would score in the preseason and get sent down, and he would score in bunches in the AHL. There's a few of those in every season.
My apologies the numbers came from Hockey DB and I mixed up the season Bobby Ryan played on the Portland Pirates before they became the Iowa Chops.
Either way, Ryan produced those similar numbers to what Kadri has produced this season. The only reason this was even brought up is for the simple fact that some people on HFBoards are calling Kadri a bust, when in fact he hasn't even fully played one NHL season yet. I am not saying Kadri will become a good player, all I am stating is that it is premature to be calling a prospect a bust so early.
Kadri can go either way becoming the next Bobby Ryan, or Papineau, or he can be something in between. However, the consensus amongst the hockey world is that Kadri is the Maple Leafs top prospect and he would garner interest from other NHL teams. There is no sugar coating anything here. No one knows what the future holds for any prospect that is why these players are prospects and not NHL players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog
Who give a **** what Kadri is producing in the AHL. Many players have done good in the AHL only to fall flat on their face in the NHL. Trying to compare Kadri to Ryan on what each did in the AHL is just plainly stupid.
Your just grasping at straws to make your player look better.
Than you use 1 friggin trade that happened 9 yrs ago to Try to make the OP's offer sound reasonable.What a joke of a post.
Not grasping at straws, just being objective here. By stating Kadri is a bust is just as bad as saying he will become a star. As stated above, no one knows for sure what Kadri will become, but to call him a bust is just wrong.
If Columbus has no need for Kadri than another team will, a General Manager would welcome Kadri on their team. Just ask Bryan Murray, he wanted to trade up in the draft to pick Kadri for the Senators. It's not HF Leafs fans talking up Kadri to make him "look better" it is other General Managers in the NHL that have shown interest in Kadri like Murray.
As for using the first overall trade that happened nine years ago, I was simply stating the FACTS and answering your question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog
When was the last time that you saw the 1st overall pick get traded fo next to nothing. It just don't happen.
The answer to that was in 2003 when Pittsburgh traded 3rd overall, 2nd round pick and Mikael Samuelsson to Florida for first overall plus!
To move two spots all it took was a 2nd round pick and a roster player. For the Leafs to move four spots up it doesn't seem unreasonable to trade their top prospect, plus a young defender and their 5th overall pick.
Maybe something more is required, but it would not require selling the farm. If Columbus does not want to draft a Russian player than they will move the draft pick for more assets.
However, if Scott Howson is smart he will just draft Yakupov and not even worry about entertaining any offers. That is what Columbus SHOULD do. However, if they do not than a potential deal can be had.
From a Leafs perspective, Brian Burke will not trade the 1st pick 2012, AND 1st pick 2013 ++ as some here have suggested. That would be horrible asset management, and the Leafs would be better keeping their hypothetical 5th overall pick and not trading at all.
I can't imagine Burke wants Nail, and is most interested in Galchenyuk. We need a center, and he will likely be our target, with Grigs as a back-up plan. With a few teams wanting a defenceman, Burke will be on top of who will be available at our pick.
There's no need to get to #1.
Last edited by smoke meat pete*: 03-31-2012 at 01:19 PM.
I can't imagine Burke wants Nail, and is most interested in Galchenyuk. We need a center, and he will likely be our target, with Grigs as a back-up plan. With a few teams wanting a defenceman, Burke will be on top of who will be available at our pick.
If he's happy with either one (Grigs or Galchenyuk), then there is a good chance one of them will be available at 5. Toronto could end up picking anywhere from 1st to 11th. Way too early to tell.
If he's happy with either one (Grigs or Galchenyuk), then there is a good chance one of them will be available at 5. Toronto could end up picking anywhere from 1st to 8th. Way too early to tell.
I think 7th or 8th is starting to be a stretch. But it is very possible those 3 are gone in the top 4. I think Burke will want to be top 3, but top 4 if Edmonton keeps their pick and grabs a defenceman. Minnesota is a "Wild" card. I'm interested to see how they change things.
I changed it up to a 11th, 6th and 10th are separated by only 3 points. Time is running out, but it would only take 2 wins in their last 4 games to possibly put them in 9th. They play the Sabres twice, the Bolts, and the Habs. They could win 3, or lose all 4, who knows. Very tight from 21st to 29th. Only CBJ knows where they'll end up.
I changed it up to a 11th, 6th and 10th are separated by only 3 points. Time is running out, but it would only take 2 wins in their last 4 games to possibly put them in 9th. They play the Sabres twice, the Bolts, and the Habs. They could win 3, or lose all 4, who knows. Very tight from 21st to 29th. Only CBJ knows where they'll end up.
We don't have room for Kadri unless we can trade Horcoff (which we can't), so I am not interested in this kind of deal. Change Schenn and Kadri to Gardiner and add a piece coming back from Edmonton (David Musil or Curtis Hamilton, depending on Toronto's wants).
Edmonton first, Curtis Hamilton
for
Toronto first, Jake Gardiner
Of course this would be after the lottery, if Edmonton ends up with 2nd and the Leafs 5th. The difference between Grigorenko and the 4-5 pick is significant enough that I would need a Gardiner type piece coming back to agree. Burke of course says no though.
You can't be serious? While the original offer was a lowball, this is ridiculous. Leafs pick is looking like it will be anywhere from 1-4 spots below. To move up you want our best defenceman, who happens to be 21, our 2nd, AND our 1st in a much stronger draft next year???
A big giant pass from me. I'd rather do the proposed 1st+kadri+gardiner for nash trade.... and that's saying a lot.
That's what Burke PAID for the 1st overall in 1999. Seems like using that as a guide is fair to me.
It's really pretty simple. What's totally missing in this thread is the idea that Columbus likely will have the 1st overall pick. If Toronto wants it, they have to offer something Columbus thinks is more valuable to Columbus than that pick. It's not about what's "fair" to the Leafs; it's all about what it will take for Columbus to prefer the offer to the 1st overall. If you don't offer that, you won't get the pick.
Columbus doesn't need or want Franson, Kadri or Colborne. Columbus needs a #1 Goalie, top pairing defense and lots of high picks.
Kadri can go either way becoming the next Bobby Ryan, or Papineau, or he can be something in between. However, the consensus amongst the hockey world is that Kadri is the Maple Leafs top prospect and he would garner interest from other NHL teams. There is no sugar coating anything here. No one knows what the future holds for any prospect that is why these players are prospects and not NHL players.
Not grasping at straws, just being objective here. By stating Kadri is a bust is just as bad as saying he will become a star. As stated above, no one knows for sure what Kadri will become, but to call him a bust is just wrong.
.
Except for stats, there isnt one similarity between Ryan and Kadri. Yay stats, the ultimate crutch for faulty thinking! Ryan's ceiling at draft was prototype power forward if he could improve his skating. his size and skill would make him a useful player even if he was on the 3rd line. Kadri's ceiling is Marc Savard, whose skill and savy make up for lack of size. Kadri's bust potential is much higher. If he doesnt develop, he's likely not in the NHL. He isnt going to play a bottom six role.
Overpayment by the Jackets.
Do Leaf fans really believe that if they put enough garbage together in a offer that the Jackets will bite?The OP's offer is just terrible.When was the last time that you saw the 1st overall pick get traded fo next to nothing. It just don't happen.
WTH? Garbage? Next to nothing? Hyperbole much?
Why not just say it isn't enough to interest Columbus, or better yet engage in an actual conversation that wouldn't get you punched if you spoke that way in person?
In what world is a top 5 pick, a former #7 overall who is looking good in the AHL plus a decent defender, for a top two pick that the GM is on record having interest in moving anywhere close to being nothing or garbage? Maybe it's not enough, but it's certainly in the ballpark. It's embarrassing how dumped on Kadri is getting these days, and the last time I looked there were some extremely good prospects available at the #5 selection.
The homers on this board are freaking awesome in their all their embarrassing splendor!
That's what Burke PAID for the 1st overall in 1999. Seems like using that as a guide is fair to me.
It's really pretty simple. What's totally missing in this thread is the idea that Columbus likely will have the 1st overall pick. If Toronto wants it, they have to offer something Columbus thinks is more valuable to Columbus than that pick. It's not about what's "fair" to the Leafs; it's all about what it will take for Columbus to prefer the offer to the 1st overall. If you don't offer that, you won't get the pick.
Columbus doesn't need or want Franson, Kadri or Colborne. Columbus needs a #1 Goalie, top pairing defense and lots of high picks.
And according to many of their fans they shouldn't have to pay much to get those. Funny how that works.
If I give you your assessment of the players which I disagree with, did you even bother to find out Columbus's needs?
Columbus doesn't need Kessel or Grabovski. They need top pairing defense and a #1 goaltender. I don't see those..
It wasn't a point of who they needed that I was making, more that it's the kind've value that they'd have to give up to get the 1st round pick. Also, if Columbus wants/needs a top pairing defender and a #1 goaltender, why are Nazem Kadri and Cody Franson who isn't a top defenseman being considered?
In what world is a top 5 pick, a former #7 overall who is looking good in the AHL plus a decent defender, for a top two pick that the GM is on record having interest in moving anywhere close to being nothing or garbage? Maybe it's not enough, but it's certainly in the ballpark. It's embarrassing how dumped on Kadri is getting these days, and the last time I looked there were some extremely good prospects available at the #5 selection.
In the world of NHL value? There isnt immediate help in this draft except for maybe #1. No one cares where Kadri was drafted anymore. His value is what GMs think his potential NHL career is now. Decent defenders are available on waivers
And according to many of their fans they shouldn't have to pay much to get those. Funny how that works.
Here's how it really works. They will either have the #1 or #2 pick. If someone offers Columbus more than Columbus thinks that pick is worth, they will trade it. If they don't, they will make the pick. The odds of the player picked 1st overall or even 2nd overall becoming an elite player, likely a franchise player are pretty high. They can't lose either way.
