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The Hockey News "Future Watch" 2012 (Habs ranked 28th)

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02-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #126
montreal
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
You mean us, who pay for this mediocrity?
no the guy that paid 600M bucks for this crap.

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02-29-2012, 04:31 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
no the guy that paid 600M bucks for this crap.
lol, the habs are a brand...without the fans the brand is useless. we are the reason he made this business venture. Did you think the phoenix coyotes are worth 500+ million? Of course not, they have like 10 fans. With enough spinning of the wheels and us being entrenched in the mediocrity i guarantee you that brand is going to take a hit which in turn will hurt molson's bottom line. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Winning helps everyone! Long lasting major success outweighs short term gain (keeping of mediocre ufas for the HOPE of a couple playoff games). A winning brand, creates more interest, more merchandising, more attention, MORE MONEY. Forget 2010 when was the last time people took a look at the Montreal Canadiens and said "that team is a contender, they are perennial playoff performers and will be a threat for the cup for a long time"...how long ago has that been? Forget the parity and all that, we haven't built a contender in decades!
We spend to the cap limit without any idea of what we are doing, we fail to get anything in return when we realize we made a mistake and the cycle continues as we make the same misjudgments repeatedly. This is agonizing and as one of the most profitable organizations in the league is just not acceptable. Btw, didn't this dimwit of an owner throw our coach under the bus to bring more negative attention towards this brand? Yah good leadership right there. ;D

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02-29-2012, 05:27 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Is this the result of poor drafting or is it because we haven't had high draft picks?
We have a tendency to do better than most clubs in terms of drafting and we find late gems later than the average club. The list is a projection on the future. Doesn't always pan out this way of course and by the time it's over we'd probably look back and say we were actually middle of the pack or somewhere around there.

There's no doubt that not having top picks or trading for elite prospects has hurt us for a loooooong time.

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03-02-2012, 01:22 PM
  #129
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I think where a guy gets drafted carries too much weight on these rankings.

I can see Bournival ending up being a better NHLer than LeBlanc.
I can see Dietz ending up being a better NHLer than Tinordi.
I can see Bennett ending up being a better NHLer than Beaulieu.
I can see McMillan ending up being a better NHLer than Kristo.

I'm not saying they will be but when you look at their performance you would have to say there is a fair possibility.

Bournival - 19 QMJHL LeBlanc - 20 QMJHL
2012 - 33gp 25g 45pts 2011 - 51gp 26g 58pts

Dietz - 19 WHL Tinordi - 20 OHL
2012 - 63gp 14g 37pts 107pim 2011 - 63gp 1g 14pts 140pim

Bennett - 20 - college Beaulieu - 19 - QMJHL
2012 - 36gp 4g 19pts 2012 - 44gp 8g 43pts

McMillan - 20 - college Kristo - 22 - college
2012 - 33gp 3g 13pts 2010 - 41gp 15g 36pts

Bournival is having a better last season in the Q than LeBlanc plus is going to be a more rounded player.

Dietz and Tinordi are different in size but they play the same type of game. Dietz is out playing Siemens who is a 1st rounder but still not getting the love.

Bennett as a sophmore is a top pairing dman on a big time college hockey team. I'm betting he scores at about a pt a game pace next year in college. Beaulieu is still further ahead but Bennett is closing the gap.

Initially McMillan doesn't look to have Kristo's potential but Kristo has only marginally improved in two years since his freshman year. If McMillan adds the weight he needs he could easily outperform Kristo's junior numbers in two years.

I know there is more to it than stats but stats aren't biased. I wish these rankings were less biased. Bournival, Dietz and Bennett definitely need more love than they get.

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Old
03-02-2012, 01:50 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by leefuyoung View Post
I think where a guy gets drafted carries too much weight on these rankings.

I can see Bournival ending up being a better NHLer than LeBlanc.
I can see Dietz ending up being a better NHLer than Tinordi.
I can see Bennett ending up being a better NHLer than Beaulieu.
I can see McMillan ending up being a better NHLer than Kristo.
I agree that prospect rankings can be skewed by where a player was picked in the draft, personally I try and keep that in mind whenever I do my rankings.

Bournival better then Leblanc- I need to see more of Bournival but so far I wouldn't agree.

Dietz end up better then Tinordi, it's way too early to really say that since Dietz still has another year of juniors before likely spending a few in the AHL. I need to see more of Dietz but liked what i have seen. With Tinordi what I think he'll bring to the organization goes beyond stats.

Bennett being better then Beaulieu is interesting, but Beaulieu has the size/frame that Bennett lacks. I do think Bennett's upside is very high so it will be interesting to see where both are at in a few years.

MacMillan being better then Kristo seems unlikely to me, but they are different players as MacMillan seems to be a pass first type and Kristo uses his speed to create offense. Kristo was much better in his freshman year then MacMillan has been by a lot as I get to see a ton of North Dakota games. if MacMillan can fill out it should go a long ways to help his game as you can see how easily he gets pushed off the puck now (not a big shock since he's playing against kids in their 20's) but at this point i'd be surprised if he ends up being better then Kristo.

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03-03-2012, 12:10 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Well I'm not biased, I could care less where a player if from, they could draft an entire team from Iceland and I wouldn't care as long as they were good. I want to like Avtsin, but when you watch him game after game after game and he is barely noticeable it gets frustrating. I really don't know what the future holds for him, but I also don't know what he's done to be considered a top 10 prospect in this system as I don't know how anyone could watch him all the time and not want to rip their hair out.
I trust your judgement. However, my hope is that Avtsin is one of those guys where it just clicks quite suddenly. He's still pretty young, and he's had to adjust to a new country, league and hockey culture.

Yeah I know excuses excuses.

But I say one more year, I want to see one more year from him. Will he bolt to the KHL though?

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03-03-2012, 12:25 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I think it's bad when we're all collectively holding our breath, hoping the team doesn't trade it's 1st round pick.
The people who think our 1st round pick could get traded are the same ones who think at any minute they are going to get abducted by aliens and probed. Speak for yourself.

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03-03-2012, 12:44 AM
  #133
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Currently 28th in the League...28th in future. Has to be the worst combination of present and future in the history of the franchise. Can't get much worse.

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03-03-2012, 01:34 AM
  #134
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but isn't being 28th in the league kind of helpful for, you know, the future? I'm really annoyed we are not getting our **** together and focussing on 29th. Really Price, you HAD to touch the puck? It would have slid in eventually. Perhaps with Setoguchi.

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03-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
I trust your judgement. However, my hope is that Avtsin is one of those guys where it just clicks quite suddenly. He's still pretty young, and he's had to adjust to a new country, league and hockey culture.

Yeah I know excuses excuses.

But I say one more year, I want to see one more year from him. Will he bolt to the KHL though?
It's possible that he one day just figures it out but at this point that seems a bit unlikely. Will be very interesting to see what he can do next year as he's still under contract for 2 more years. I hope he doesn't go back to the KHL but if he did I wouldn't lose sleep over it as he has been outplayed by wingers like Schultz and Nattinen of late. The fact that he does very little most nights is very concerning for a skilled player like him in his 2nd season in the AHL.

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03-14-2012, 09:04 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Failing Hands View Post
Currently 28th in the League...28th in future. Has to be the worst combination of present and future in the history of the franchise. Can't get much worse.
I think two things to consider when looking at that "ranked 28th in the NHL", it doesn't take into consideration having a young core.

1-Their measuring stick is NHLers 21 and under, well guys like Subban(22) Pacioretty(23) Eller(22) Price(24) White(23) Weber(23) Plus young NHLers like Diaz and Emelin who are still just rookies though they are older age-wise. In that sense we have a good group of 8 young players 22-25 either entering their prime or not there yet.

2-We had 3(LeBlanc Beaulieu Tinordi) of their top 50 prospects, that's above the average of 1.66(50 players for 30 NHL teams) and did not include Geoffrion(#4 for Nashville), Gallagher, Holland, Kristo and Bournival who are still good prospects and building blocks of a winning team.

I think with a few good moves and a bit of luck, next yaer the team should be back to a playoff one and have one of the best(top 10) group of prospects in the NHL when you add a top 5 pick to all those guys turning pro. Pateryn Dietz Ellis MacMillan Quailer were not even listed in our top 10, I think 3 of those 5 could easily end up as NHL regulars.

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03-14-2012, 01:03 PM
  #137
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if that site was accurate wed be a power house right now, for like 3 consecutive years i think we were in the top 6 iirc a while ago

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03-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Got my issue in the mail today!

Nugent-Hopkins, Hall and Eberle on the cover

Top 10:

1. Evgeny Kuznetsov
2. Mikael Granlund
3. Jonathan Huberdeau
4. Dougie Hamilton
5. Mika Zibanejad
6. Vladimir Tarasenko
7. Mark Scheifele
8. Jacob Markstrom
9. Ryan Strome
10. Brandon Gormley

Top 10 Habs (We're ranked 28th with a grade of C):

1. Nathan Beaulieu (33rd)
2. Louis Leblanc (47th)
3. Jarred Tinordi (50th)
4. Brendan Gallagher
5. Aaron Palushaj
6. Michael Bournival
7. Andreas Engqvist
8. Alexander Avtsin
9. Danny Kristo
10. Patrick Holland

*Blake Geoffrion is listed as Nashville's #4 prospect.

The main top 50 list is a result of rankings from a panel of NHL scouts. Each teams top 10 list comes from a member of the organization. This was always the case with previous issues, so while no confirmation, I'm assuming it was the same again this year.
I luv these rankings...

Ellis is better than Gormley in Shawinigan...

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Old
03-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #139
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You don't trade UFA's when you are going to play in the playoffs. Not sure what's so hard to understand.
What is so difficult to understand and you're the one having the problem understanding this is that a GM should survey his options and decide on a plan of attack before the season starts. If in August team A has 5 UFAs pending at the end of the upcoming season the GM should decide which of the 5 he wants to keep, give himself a deadline and go after them. The ones who don't want to sign you make a hockey trade during the year.

I can understand a GM losing 1, maybe 2 of those 5 pending UFAs thru free agency. But a GM that loses all 5 is asleep at the wheel and you can dress it up any way you want but that bus being driven by a sleeping GM will eventually run off the road.

Gainey didn't lose 5 he lost 8, maybe 10 if I remember correctly. Excusing terrible asset management with the playoff revenue excuse is just plain wrong. A GM doesn't have to wait till the end of the year to make up his mind about a player. And that's what Gainey did 3 years ago and was left with half a team and put together a mishmash of smurfs.

yeah he got lucky that a goalie he never wanted to use (Halak) caught fire and carried the team to the Conference finals but that doesn't excuse his terrible management skills.

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03-14-2012, 05:58 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Cdizzle View Post
if that site was accurate wed be a power house right now, for like 3 consecutive years i think we were in the top 6 iirc a while ago
That site is fairly accurate. Between 03 and 07 we drafted 18 NHL calibre players. twice more than our closest rival.

The reason we're not a power house is that the braintrust (and I use that word very loosely) shipped out 11 of those 18 players and got back next to nothing.

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03-14-2012, 06:29 PM
  #141
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I think two things to consider when looking at that "ranked 28th in the NHL", it doesn't take into consideration having a young core.

1-Their measuring stick is NHLers 21 and under, well guys like Subban(22) Pacioretty(23) Eller(22) Price(24) White(23) Weber(23) Plus young NHLers like Diaz and Emelin who are still just rookies though they are older age-wise. In that sense we have a good group of 8 young players 22-25 either entering their prime or not there yet.

2-We had 3(LeBlanc Beaulieu Tinordi) of their top 50 prospects, that's above the average of 1.66(50 players for 30 NHL teams) and did not include Geoffrion(#4 for Nashville), Gallagher, Holland, Kristo and Bournival who are still good prospects and building blocks of a winning team.

I think with a few good moves and a bit of luck, next yaer the team should be back to a playoff one and have one of the best(top 10) group of prospects in the NHL when you add a top 5 pick to all those guys turning pro. Pateryn Dietz Ellis MacMillan Quailer were not even listed in our top 10, I think 3 of those 5 could easily end up as NHL regulars.
You are including weber and Diaz in your young core? You've got to be kidding.

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03-14-2012, 06:45 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think two things to consider when looking at that "ranked 28th in the NHL", it doesn't take into consideration having a young core.

1-Their measuring stick is NHLers 21 and under, well guys like Subban(22) Pacioretty(23) Eller(22) Price(24) White(23) Weber(23) Plus young NHLers like Diaz and Emelin who are still just rookies though they are older age-wise. In that sense we have a good group of 8 young players 22-25 either entering their prime or not there yet.

2-We had 3(LeBlanc Beaulieu Tinordi) of their top 50 prospects, that's above the average of 1.66(50 players for 30 NHL teams) and did not include Geoffrion(#4 for Nashville), Gallagher, Holland, Kristo and Bournival who are still good prospects and building blocks of a winning team.

I think with a few good moves and a bit of luck, next yaer the team should be back to a playoff one and have one of the best(top 10) group of prospects in the NHL when you add a top 5 pick to all those guys turning pro. Pateryn Dietz Ellis MacMillan Quailer were not even listed in our top 10, I think 3 of those 5 could easily end up as NHL regulars.
I hope you don't mind if I keep this message and on the next few anniversary's of it's birth replay it back to you.

The Habs prospect pool is as bad as its roster. You would know this if you knew what you were talking about.

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03-14-2012, 11:24 PM
  #143
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Tinordi is going to be a bottom 4 guy at best he is not progressing well at all which is telling especially in an organization like London that seems to turn out some pretty decent NHLers.
What? Tinordi is having a great season with London. He is never going to be an offensive threat but he will bring something that Montreal definetly need, physical defenseman with underrated mobility.

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03-14-2012, 11:28 PM
  #144
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What? Tinordi is having a great season with London. He is never going to be an offensive threat but he will bring something that Montreal definetly need, physical defenseman with underrated mobility.
Don't bother. He hates Tino with a passion. Nothing will change his mind.

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03-15-2012, 08:54 AM
  #145
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Habs traded away many top draft choices for virtually nil in return. They traded away 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks and a third for Gomez, Tanguay and Schneider from '07 to '09. Hard for any club to not be ranked near the bottom when that happens.

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03-15-2012, 09:55 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I hope you don't mind if I keep this message and on the next few anniversary's of it's birth replay it back to you.

The Habs prospect pool is as bad as its roster. You would know this if you knew what you were talking about.
How is the prospect pool bad, we have about 8 guys better than the Flyers top prospect, if you want to see bad look at them.

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03-15-2012, 09:56 AM
  #147
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You are including weber and Diaz in your young core? You've got to be kidding.
I didn't say they were core players but they will be solid NHLers.

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03-15-2012, 10:00 AM
  #148
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How is the prospect pool bad, we have about 8 guys better than the Flyers top prospect, if you want to see bad look at them.
They're 7th in the NHL in points though. Our prospect pool isn't the worst in the NHL, but bottom half pretty easily imo.

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03-15-2012, 10:02 AM
  #149
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I didn't say they were core players but they will be solid NHLers.
That remains to be seen. They aren't right now.

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03-31-2012, 06:56 PM
  #150
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After buying magazine think the rankings are out of whack! How can Habs be ranked 28th with 3 prospects rated in top overall 50 when teams like the Devils are ranked 18th without a player rated in the 50?

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