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Here are the logistical problems with Schneider, an RFA this year and a UFA next year.
What’s in the best interests of the Vancouver Canucks and in the best interests of Schneider are mutually exclusive. I’m sure the Canucks would love to keep him as a backup who could easily step in as a #1 in case Luongo falters or get’s injured. I’m sure they would be willing to pay a premium for this kind of a back-up, say $2 million per year.
But Schneider has designs on being a starter, and getting starting goaltender $$$’s. Even if the Canucks could give him the $$$’s, they cannot give him the starts or the #1 job, unless they trade Luongo.
Schneider may not want to sign an offer sheet. The Canucks can match it, and then he faces the possibility of being a long-time back-up behind Luongo rather than a starter, which could be one season away when he hits UFA.
Teams may not be willing to trade significant assets for him if he is one year away from UFA. The RFA offer could ensure the long-term, but then Schneider risks the Canucks matching and making him a long-term back-up.
It looks like Schneider will be a Canuck for one more year only, and it will be interesting to see what kind of assets the Canucks can get for him.
Agree but if you are Vancouver I could see locking up 10 mill in net for a year but do you really want to tie up that number for the next 5 years? It would limit their ability to continue to add/keep other pieces.
Should someone offer 4.7 for 5 years with a NTC or NMC it could really tie their hands for a long time and diminish the market value of both he and Luongo.
If you can propose an offer for Schneider that is returning VALUE for Schneider lets hear it but a late 1st and a 3rd in a bad draft isn't enough to get a player like Schneider. I just don't see what else Columbus has to offer the Canucks for Schneider, this is the problem.
I can't really come up with one where Schnieder is the main piece coming back to Columbus. Goalies have never had as much value as they SHOULD have if you took them as players alone.
If you want the 1st, it'd have to be a trade like:
CBJ get Kesler, Schnieder.
VAN get #1 2012, Brassard, Calvert.
Here are the logistical problems with Schneider, an RFA this year and a UFA next year.
What’s in the best interests of the Vancouver Canucks and in the best interests of Schneider are mutually exclusive. I’m sure the Canucks would love to keep him as a backup who could easily step in as a #1 in case Luongo falters or get’s injured. I’m sure they would be willing to pay a premium for this kind of a back-up, say $2 million per year.
But Schneider has designs on being a starter, and getting starting goaltender $$$’s. Even if the Canucks could give him the $$$’s, they cannot give him the starts or the #1 job, unless they trade Luongo.
Schneider may not want to sign an offer sheet. The Canucks can match it, and then he faces the possibility of being a long-time back-up behind Luongo rather than a starter, which could be one season away when he hits UFA.
Teams may not be willing to trade significant assets for him if he is one year away from UFA. The RFA offer could ensure the long-term, but then Schneider risks the Canucks matching and making him a long-term back-up.
It looks like Schneider will be a Canuck for one more year only, and it will be interesting to see what kind of assets the Canucks can get for him.
I really wouldn't have a problem with keeping Schneider if the significant return NHL insiders say Schneider will return is just a 1st and 3rd in a bad draft. This would be the biggest trolling job by Bob Mackenzie if a late 1st and a 3rd was a significant return. Honestly I do think it's Luongo last season in Vanocuver, the guy is 3000+ milieus from his young family that he doesn't get to see and a team very very very close to his family just happens to need a goalie really bad and the GM is a fan of Luongo, I'll have no problems sending Luongo to TBL for Wings 1st and TBL 2nd and then re-sign Schneider to 5+ years and Lack as back who is ready.
I can't really come up with one where Schnieder is the main piece coming back to Columbus.
If you want the 1st, it'd have to be a trade like:
CBJ get Kesler, Schnieder.
VAN get #1 2012, Brassard, Calvert.
Vancouver won't trade Kesler come on, we're in a win now and he's the heart of the Canucks. This is the biggest issue with CBJ and VAN trading, CBJ doesn't have anything the Canucks would want and the things we do want would require a higher price we just won't pay. Vancouver needs are a right handed top 4 D man and a solid one or a legit top 6 winger to play with Kesler and Booth, a big upgrade on Raymond, CBJ doesn't have either of those things so the next thing is their 1st and if we need to send Kesler the other way then that trade hurts us a lot more then it helps us. You'll have to look for another goalie.
If Vancouver wants significant overpayment or to hang onto Schnieder as a #2 goalie and is willing to risk him going in free-agency, there is nothing anybody can do besides offersheet him to some ridiculous contract.
I highly doubt that there is any way that Columbus will use the #1 overall pick with a goalie coming back as the highlight piece. Just ain't gonna happen.
Ya goalies are worthless. They do nothing in the playoffs. I find it funny that because Chicago won a cup without a star goalie and now everybody deems goalies worthless? It's because Chicago was absolutely stacked at every position. Goalies win cups. Ask the Boston bruins.
Do you really believe that? I'm starting to think that there's a couple fishermen in this post looking to hook some Canuck fans. There's no way you can be that obtuse.
If this isn't a fishing trip, can you give me a list of the "many" goaltenders out there that are the same caliber of Schneider that are the same age or younger. Keep in mind they need to be available also.
People will be shocked when they see what the canucks get for him. This isn't an ordinary goalie. This is a goalie who will be in the miller and lundqvist bracket...... Elite. Schneider is currently on that path.
If Vancouver wants significant overpayment or to hang onto Schnieder as a #2 goalie and is willing to risk him going in free-agency, there is nothing anybody can do besides offersheet him to some ridiculous contract.
If we're going forward with Luongo/Lack and Schneider is to be traded it's not a significant over payment that would be needed but value, no one has offered value but late picks and just crap for an elite young goalie. We have two holes that we would want to upgrade a right side top 6 wing to play with Kesler and is a big upgrade on Raymond or a Salo replacement a right handed top 4 D man to play with Edler, this is what we'll preferably would want in return for Schneider.
Ya goalies are worthless. They do nothing in the playoffs. I find it funny that because Chicago won a cup without a star goalie and now everybody deems goalies worthless? It's because Chicago was absolutely stacked at every position. Goalies win cups. Ask the Boston bruins.
I never said that goalies were worthless. And, I should have qualified my statement. Unless it's one of the top few goalies in the league, the #1 overall won't be traded for a goalie. As good as Schneider may be, he is not proven enough for a team to spend their first overall on.
Columbus is more than a few pieces away from the playoffs. I don't think filling the goalie spot first is the way to go. Even if your goalie
works out and saves you 5 or 6 more wins, that just takes you farther away from a strong draft pick next year.
I think Columbus would be better off filling other holes in their lineup first. After they get closer to a playoff caliber team, would be a better time to look at getting a solid #1 goalie. And not at the cost of your 1st overall. Just my opinion.
Here are the logistical problems with Schneider, an RFA this year and a UFA next year.
What’s in the best interests of the Vancouver Canucks and in the best interests of Schneider are mutually exclusive. I’m sure the Canucks would love to keep him as a backup who could easily step in as a #1 in case Luongo falters or get’s injured. I’m sure they would be willing to pay a premium for this kind of a back-up, say $2 million per year.
But Schneider has designs on being a starter, and getting starting goaltender $$$’s. Even if the Canucks could give him the $$$’s, they cannot give him the starts or the #1 job, unless they trade Luongo.
Schneider may not want to sign an offer sheet. The Canucks can match it, and then he faces the possibility of being a long-time back-up behind Luongo rather than a starter, which could be one season away when he hits UFA.
Teams may not be willing to trade significant assets for him if he is one year away from UFA. The RFA offer could ensure the long-term, but then Schneider risks the Canucks matching and making him a long-term back-up.
It looks like Schneider will be a Canuck for one more year only, and it will be interesting to see what kind of assets the Canucks can get for him.
This isn`t true. If the Canucks keep Schneider I see no reason why they couldn`t make him the starter. After a month of backing him up I`m sure Luongo would want out anyway. The same is true with an offersheet. If someone makes him an offer for less than 4.7 million then the Canucks could match and trade Luongo for a lesser return. Regardless of what idiots like Garrioch and hfers think someone will happily take his contract.
This isn`t true. If the Canucks keep Schneider I see no reason why they couldn`t make him the starter. After a month of backing him up I`m sure Luongo would want out anyway. The same is true with an offersheet. If someone makes him an offer for less than 4.7 million then the Canucks could match and trade Luongo for a lesser return. Regardless of what idiots like Garrioch and hfers think someone will happily take his contract.
Yeah, but VAN will return very little in a forced Luongo trade. Opposing GMs will have VAN over a barrel. VAN might be able to afford to match a 4.7 x 5 year Schneider deal and Luongo for one year, but not five.
Yeah, but VAN will return very little in a forced Luongo trade. Opposing GMs will have VAN over a barrel. VAN might be able to afford to match a 4.7 x 5 year Schneider deal and Luongo for one year, but not five.
That`s fine. I`d rather have Schneider and a 2nd than Luongo and a 1st + 3rd. If Luongo gets traded then the return is secondary in value to having Schneider over Luongo for the next 10 years.
Based on many posts in this thread, it's clear the Canucks should keep Schneider and trade Luongo. Canucks fans seem pretty sure Schneider is at least as good as Lunqvist, maybe Hasek or Brodeur in their prime.
Perhaps they need to make Schneider the #1 and tell Luongo he can give them a list of 10-15 teams he'll waive his NTC for or expect to be a 15 game backup going forward. If they don't there is no way to keep Schneider more than 1-2 seasons.
Ryan Kesler is no longer " the same anymore", because some guy watched 6-7 games where he didn't play all that well still recovering from post season surgery, to say nothing of having to deal with losing in game seven of the SC finals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier
Watch a canuck game this season, Kesler hasn't changed at all. You are assuming that Kesler is declining because of a down year due to an injury. Just watch Kesler dominate in the playoffs, and you will see that he is still the same. Besides, there is no way Kesler would be traded for the 1st ov or Nash. The Canucks' second line center would be Pahlsson...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA
Kesler has been fine this season we're one point behind the Blues for the best team in the league and this is a year the team has slept all season long. Kesler would be the last guy Vancouver would move unless we went into a full rebuild, which isn't happening anytime soon.
Yet, i remember another Vancouver fan telling me if i was actually watching Vancouver games i would realize Kesler is playing nowhere last year level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO
sorry, you can present all the correlations from one season to another, but the simple fact remains, if you have actually seen every one or even most of the Canucks games this year, you'll see very clearly how sub-par the team has been defensively.
....Anyone who's watched them play would know that's clear as day.....
The defensive presence up front was just too weak this season, and a huge reason for that is Kesler not playing anywhere near his Selke-worthy performance from last season,
So we have some Vancouver fans here watching a lot of games, some tell us Kesler is the same the other, also watching a lot of games, tell us he is not playing anywhere near his last season level.
Do you really believe that? I'm starting to think that there's a couple fishermen in this post looking to hook some Canuck fans. There's no way you can be that obtuse.
If this isn't a fishing trip, can you give me a list of the "many" goaltenders out there that are the same caliber of Schneider that are the same age or younger. Keep in mind they need to be available also.
For the 1st overall, many unavailable goalie would become avaible.
As a Montreal fan, I would gladly trade Price+ for the first overall. I wonder if LA fans would trade Quick (UFA 2013) for the first overall.
This isn`t true. If the Canucks keep Schneider I see no reason why they couldn`t make him the starter. After a month of backing him up I`m sure Luongo would want out anyway. The same is true with an offersheet. If someone makes him an offer for less than 4.7 million then the Canucks could match and trade Luongo for a lesser return. Regardless of what idiots like Garrioch and hfers think someone will happily take his contract.
Actually you agreed with the bolded part of my post that you quoted, with the emphasis being on the last four words
Trading Luongo presents a whole other set of interesting possibilities...
Ryan Kesler is no longer " the same anymore", because some guy watched 6-7 games where he didn't play all that well still recovering from post season surgery, to say nothing of having to deal with losing in game seven of the SC finals.
The level of hockey ignorance in this post is both astounding and unsettling. I suggest you put up a poll comparing Umberger to Kesler to get a little feedback on your "opinion" on these players.
Ryan Kesler is no longer " the same anymore" also because he has 1 point in the last 9 games, because he can't get even 50 for the year, because some Vancouver fans also were saying he isn't same any more, because in those 7 games when the other team keying in on him he disappears. Opinion of this poster from Vancouver for some reason is similar to my impressions:
Quote:
Kesler has the complete physical package but lacks the hockey sense to produce on a consistant level, I imagine he would struggle on a team with less talent. He just isnt complete on a mental level in my opinion and I also think he is one of the most over rated players in the Nhl, last year a group of canuck fans at work and one guy in particular compared him to Messier I almost threw up and punched him in the face at the same time.
I'm pretty sure you haven't seen even 6 Jackets games last year to make any judgement about Umberger's play. I just watched the Canucks-Flames game right and I would take last year Umburger over that #17 in blue. His creativity in offensive zone is next to zero. If he plays like that in the playoffs you gonna be really disappointed.
I find it funny that because Chicago won a cup without a star goalie and now everybody deems goalies worthless? It's because Chicago was absolutely stacked at every position. Goalies win cups. Ask the Boston bruins.
