...has anyone around here ever heard of something called a "sophomore slump"? How would it feel to jettison a guy like Grabner off a bad season, in which he still may end up with 20 goals, and see him revert to last years form? I just do not understand the rationale when it comes to guys like Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, etc.
I don't want to get into trade implications if we keep him or not.
I want to say that I have said this same thing not to get rid of Grabs, but you said it better here. Let me add though that Vancouver traded him because they thought they got better, and thats fine. The fact that Florida gave up on him when they knew he could be lost on waivers should not be forgotten. On top of that, players that have a sophomore slump, let alone a guy like Grabs who has been on 3 teams in 2.5 seasons/years.
Grabner needs to re-adjust and if he scored 37 goals he gets a little more leeway than other guys who didnt. Now I am not saying we hold onto him for a longer time, like we did with Comeau and others. All I'm saying is that professional sports teams sometimes have such a short term memory that guys are gotten rid of too soon.
And PLEASE dont trade Kyle. Try and get a top 4 defenseman for Grabner. If you cant? Sign someone. Our D will eb good enougha nd long as we bring in players who are better than Eaton/Mottau/Jurcina/Staios.
Stop with the whole "Kyle is upping hsi trade value" thing. His value is way mroe important to us right now than anyone else. His production and potential are way morevaluable then the uncetaina dn abstract trade value many of you speak of.
Trade Grabner, too one dimensional, and even though I think he'll bounce back, Kyle is all around better imo.
Grabner has next season to show his first season wasn't a fluke. That is fair.
Kyle brings a limited game, has since day one. If he isn't being physical his game suffers to the point of being a waste of space. Yes he has room for development, but his 24th birthday is around the bend, and if he remains inconsistent... well, at 24 you pretty much know which direction a kid is heading by then.
As for the defense, it is not remotely ok, and no we won't be hiring anyone of greater value than Eaton, Jurcina, and Staios. If you want to see improvement next year, we have no other possible means of improving the defense than via a trade. It simply HAS to be. There are no saviors at the Bridge, no walk on defensemen coming at the draft, and I think we will DOWNGRADE from Eaton, Staios, and Jurcina by October because the defensive UFA pool is really shallow this year, and no, Suter or Weber would rather light themselves on fire than play for this joke of an organization. You say sign someone? Who? They won't come here boss.
So someone has to go, and likely that someone plus our quickly devaluing 1st round pick, and maybe a prospect at the Bridge to add one decent blue liner via a trade. Of all the people on the club, the most expendable while holding some value and upside some idiot GM might still play too (see Ottawa & Compoli) is Kyle.
Grabner has next season to show his first season wasn't a fluke. That is fair.
Kyle brings a limited game, has since day one. If he isn't being physical his game suffers to the point of being a waste of space. Yes he has room for development, but his 24th birthday is around the bend, and if he remains inconsistent... well, at 24 you pretty much know which direction a kid is heading by then.
As for the defense, it is not remotely ok, and no we won't be hiring anyone of greater value than Eaton, Jurcina, and Staios. If you want to see improvement next year, we have no other possible means of improving the defense than via a trade. It simply HAS to be. There are no saviors at the Bridge, no walk on defensemen coming at the draft, and I think we will DOWNGRADE from Eaton, Staios, and Jurcina by October because the defensive UFA pool is really shallow this year, and no, Suter or Weber would rather light themselves on fire than play for this joke of an organization. You say sign someone? Who? They won't come here boss.
So someone has to go, and likely that someone plus our quickly devaluing 1st round pick, and maybe a prospect at the Bridge to add one decent blue liner via a trade. Of all the people on the club, the most expendable while holding some value and upside some idiot GM might still play too (see Ottawa & Compoli) is Kyle.
You may be right about other GM's feeling he has the most upside when compared to guys like Grabner and Bailey, but IMO losing Okposo would hurt a lot more than losing Grabs. I know you think he's soft, but I think with a better coach he will get back to being the physical presence he was in the past.
I don't know if you remember this, but a few years ago(before JT joined the team) Okposo was our best player on a nightly basis. Even when he wasn't putting up points he was consistently our hardest working player. Relentless forchecking, physical play along the boards, creating offensive chances just by his strength on the puck... at his best, this kid is only behind JT as far as our most dominating players. IMO Okposo at his best is a bigger contributor to this team than Grabner at his best.
I agree that this team as a whole is soft, but trading away KO will only make that worse. I'm confident that bringing in the right coach would bring the intensity back into KO's game. That combined with Okposo's maturity and development should add up to a great 2nd line winger for us.
Gotta love opposing fans, with their crap offers,starting with 'well, I want him on my team,but we won't give much'.
The best are the "Fire Sale" threads and the OP lists like 4 available players and 15 "untouchables." Not much of a 'fire sale' if your only offering 4 ****** players.
You may be right about other GM's feeling he has the most upside when compared to guys like Grabner and Bailey, but IMO losing Okposo would hurt a lot more than losing Grabs. I know you think he's soft, but I think with a better coach he will get back to being the physical presence he was in the past.
I don't know if you remember this, but a few years ago(before JT joined the team) Okposo was our best player on a nightly basis. Even when he wasn't putting up points he was consistently our hardest working player. Relentless forchecking, physical play along the boards, creating offensive chances just by his strength on the puck... at his best, this kid is only behind JT as far as our most dominating players. IMO Okposo at his best is a bigger contributor to this team than Grabner at his best.
I agree that this team as a whole is soft, but trading away KO will only make that worse. I'm confident that bringing in the right coach would bring the intensity back into KO's game. That combined with Okposo's maturity and development should add up to a great 2nd line winger for us.
I used to be a huge fan of his, but over time his flaws have come to really bug me. The fact he talks **** on the ice yet won't back it up is outright sad. He isn't 5'10"... yet even the little ball of hate fought. But do I require him to fight? No, not if he is doing other things well.
He is big enough to be a physical presence, but how much banging have you seen him do this year? Even in his resurgence, I am seeing a reluctance to take the body. He will fight through stuff, but not take hits. He should be initiating, but instead all I see is dangle-man lately. We already have a bunch of hit absorbing punching bags. Kyle needs to man up to stay on the club.
One worry I have with Kyle is his regression has been stark and we may only have this summer to use him for trade material. Waiting longer only to have him bust would be tragic.
Grabner? He gets next year, after that, he's trade bait too if he doesn't evolve.
I used to be a huge fan of his, but over time his flaws have come to really bug me. The fact he talks **** on the ice yet won't back it up is outright sad. He isn't 5'10"... yet even the little ball of hate fought. But do I require him to fight? No, not if he is doing other things well.
He is big enough to be a physical presence, but how much banging have you seen him do this year? Even in his resurgence, I am seeing a reluctance to take the body. He will fight through stuff, but not take hits. He should be initiating, but instead all I see is dangle-man lately. We already have a bunch of hit absorbing punching bags. Kyle needs to man up to stay on the club.
One worry I have with Kyle is his regression has been stark and we may only have this summer to use him for trade material. Waiting longer only to have him bust would be tragic.
Grabner? He gets next year, after that, he's trade bait too if he doesn't evolve.
I posted when KO was playing like crap in his first 15 games: 0 goals, 3 assists that he and Grabner were two of the least likely players to be dealt because each made $1m this season and $2m next season.
Isles willl show plenty of patience on those dirt cheap ,team friendly deals.
No matter how many he finishes with,it'll be an offseason of wondering if his development is back on track.Wondering if he can play well, from the start of the season.
I honestly think it would be best to move one of grabner or okposo.. Grabner's coming off a bad season but people seem to blame the sophomore slump. I think he's just a one dimensional 20-25 goal scorer who's trade value exceeds his value to the team. If he had another subpar year, he'd be less tradeable. Okposo is a bit more valuable in that he brings more to the team, but still isn't untouchable. His end to the season isn't a fluke, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 25-30 goal, 50-60 point type player. He's an average NHL 2nd liner who needs to be with good players to succeed. One of these two could be the centerpiece in a trade for a legitimate 1st liner or top pairing defenseman, but it's a pipedream knowing their contract structures. I wouldn't mind keeping both if they still manage to acquire a legitimate top 6 forward.
I honestly think it would be best to move one of grabner or okposo.. Grabner's coming off a bad season but people seem to blame the sophomore slump. I think he's just a one dimensional 20-25 goal scorer who's trade value exceeds his value to the team. If he had another subpar year, he'd be less tradeable. Okposo is a bit more valuable in that he brings more to the team, but still isn't untouchable. His end to the season isn't a fluke, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 25-30 goal, 50-60 point type player. He's an average NHL 2nd liner who needs to be with good players to succeed. One of these two could be the centerpiece in a trade for a legitimate 1st liner or top pairing defenseman, but it's a pipedream knowing their contract structures. I wouldn't mind keeping both if they still manage to acquire a legitimate top 6 forward.
Yeah, cuz those types of players grow on trees... If you told any Islanders fan when they drafted Okposo so many years ago theyd be getting a 30 goal, 60 pt player they would've been ecstatic
I honestly think it would be best to move one of grabner or okposo.. Grabner's coming off a bad season but people seem to blame the sophomore slump. I think he's just a one dimensional 20-25 goal scorer who's trade value exceeds his value to the team. If he had another subpar year, he'd be less tradeable. Okposo is a bit more valuable in that he brings more to the team, but still isn't untouchable. His end to the season isn't a fluke, but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 25-30 goal, 50-60 point type player. He's an average NHL 2nd liner who needs to be with good players to succeed. One of these two could be the centerpiece in a trade for a legitimate 1st liner or top pairing defenseman, but it's a pipedream knowing their contract structures. I wouldn't mind keeping both if they still manage to acquire a legitimate top 6 forward.
This isn't the "run & gun" days of the NHL. If you can put up those pts today, there are many teams that would line up to gladly take said player off your hands.
This isn't the "run & gun" days of the NHL. If you can put up those pts today, there are many teams that would line up to gladly take said player off your hands.
I agree with that but I don't think we shouldn't explore the possibility of trading him. Honestly, I'm just kind of tired of watching him play small. He should be living up to those draft expectations of a bull in a china shop. He plays way too timid for my liking.
I agree with that but I don't think we shouldn't explore the possibility of trading him. Honestly, I'm just kind of tired of watching him play small. He should be living up to those draft expectations of a bull in a china shop. He plays way too timid for my liking.
If we can/need to trade one of Okposo or Grabner and can get the same return, I'd much rather part ways with Grabner. Love his speed, but feel he is a MUCH more limited player than KO is.
Yeah, cuz those types of players grow on trees... If you told any Islanders fan when they drafted Okposo so many years ago theyd be getting a 30 goal, 60 pt player they would've been ecstatic
I actually think When Okposo hits his stride he will be a 60+ point guy on anyteam. Question is can he be a consistent 70+ point guy(without playing with Tavares). Sadly I am guessing 60 is sort of his high end at this point
I get what you are saying, but what would your strategy be to replace those useless veterans you speak of if it doesn't involve dealing someone like Grabner? Would you deal Strome? Good luck bringing that idea up here. I made a proposal involving him once and I got ripped apart.
I wouldn't bring up an idea i didnt think would work in order to avoid being ridiculed here. Grabner has no value now. Methinks there will be no significant trades from this franchise...
Don't want to pigeon hole any players, especially one of my favs in KO, but his max. is about 60-65 pts. At 7th overall, that's a good pick, better than players drafted around him.
Don't get me wrong, I love KO and know that 60 point players aren't common. No doubt a solid NHLer, but he's not a player that'll wow you or turn you into a contender overnight. If you can trade him in a package for someone like a Bobby Ryan, you do it. I'd still rather keep him and trade Grabner though.
60 points for a 3rd liner is great.
It is very respectable and contributory for a 2nd liner.
Okposo is limited in his overall game (hockey sense, hitting), but he does have the tools to be a 70 point winger if he utilizes them in every game.
His greatest limitations to being all he can be is consistent effort.He has been a passenger with lack of any effort or confusion as to his role should be way too often.
When he is motivated (which should be all the time but isnt) he can be a force.
He has learned to hit the net, not the post or the glass. If he commits to driving the net, going to the slot, he can be a 65-70 point scorer.
Oh yeah, thats a good idea, lets trade away two of our most skilled players in Grabner & Okposo that are still very young. That has worked for us well in the past!!!
60 points for a 3rd liner is great.
It is very respectable and contributory for a 2nd liner.
Okposo is limited in his overall game (hockey sense, hitting), but he does have the tools to be a 70 point winger if he utilizes them in every game.
His greatest limitations to being all he can be is consistent effort.He has been a passenger with lack of any effort or confusion as to his role should be way too often.
When he is motivated (which should be all the time but isnt) he can be a force.
He has learned to hit the net, not the post or the glass. If he commits to driving the net, going to the slot, he can be a 65-70 point scorer.
a) Is unrealistic
b) Is great
You've got maybe 40-45 players with more than 60 points. In this day and age, a good 2nd liner gives you around 50 points (give or take 5).
Entirely disagree about saying that Okposo's overall game is limited. When he's on, he's the Isles' strongest player on the puck and he makes key plays in all 3 zones.
You've got maybe 40-45 players with more than 60 points. In this day and age, a good 2nd liner gives you around 50 points (give or take 5).
Entirely disagree about saying that Okposo's overall game is limited. When he's on, he's the Isles' strongest player on the puck and he makes key plays in all 3 zones.
Agreed. In KO's first season he was the best player on the ice on a consistent basis. I think if anything we learned that Okposo should be playing with Bailey to start the year next season. These guys just click together, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them both have career high's in points next year playing together with Nielsen between them. I would not want to break that line up without giving them a shot together next season.
KO/Grabner to LA for Slava Voynov and Dustin Brown.
Brown averages about 24 goals a season.His $3.1m salary is team friendly,but only has two more yrs left on it.I don't think Snow makes this trade though because the isles loves the contracts KO and Grabner signed.
$1m each this season,$2m each next season.They won't make big bucks until yrs 4 amd 5.Wang wil either have a new building or the team will be sold.
KO/Grabner to LA for Slava Voynov and Dustin Brown.
Kings fans have made it clear that Voynov is going nowhere now that they moved Johnson. Hickey and Martinez are available but Voynov and Forbert are off limits.
