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Old
03-30-2012, 09:21 AM
  #401
glenngineer
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While there are lots of great posts on both side of the fence on some of our issues, I'd like to throw out a suggestion to help fix our issues. Not that it matters since Trotz stopped calling me asking for advice.

We have 4 pretty good defensemen in Weber, Suter, Josi and Klein. Klein bashers/haters, I know what you're thinking but he's not as bad as some of you think but he's also not a top pairing guy, I get that. What he is is a competent 2nd pairing guy that is usually pretty good one on one. He isn't the best PMD but that shouldn't be his role. Weber isn't the best PMD either. So my thought is pair Suter with Klein, Josi with Weber. What this does is you have Weber or Suter on the ice for a majority of the game, much like Anaheim did with Pronger and Niedermayer during their Cup run. Pair them together on the PP like we normally do and pair them on the PK as well. Use Josi and someone else, preferably Ellis if he's in the lineup on the second PP and use Klein and Gill on the PK.

While Suter and Weber are a dominant pair, I think this team is suffering a little bit on the lower pairings. While we wouldn't have the dominant pairing anymore, I think we'd have two very effective pairings with the ones I've suggested above. Josi is a poor mans version of Suter and Klein is a smaller quicker version of Weber, but once again, a poor mans version. I think it would make us a lot harder to play against to be perfectly honest because for about 48-50 minutes of game time, we can run our 4 best all around defenders on the ice. I think Klein would benefit greatly from playing with a guy who can move the puck consistently and I think Josi steps into Suter's spot effectively as he's cool as a cucumber and has a veteran D-man in Weber to help settle him down. While it would be a little scary to have a rookie out there I think Josi can handle the duty pretty well.

That's just me. The forwards are a totally different situation...lol.

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03-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #402
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the only real problem with that is it moves Josi off his natural side with 5 games to go in the season. If this is game 20, I'd be all for it.

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03-30-2012, 11:55 AM
  #403
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Weber-Josi
Suter-Klein
Ellis-Gill

Gives you a proven veteran D man and size on each line. Ellis can help with Gills speed and can carry the puck out of the zone.
Weber and Suter have not been shut down together lately and like i said i think it might motivate Weber and Suter to have to step it up

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03-30-2012, 12:20 PM
  #404
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the only real problem with that is it moves Josi off his natural side with 5 games to go in the season. If this is game 20, I'd be all for it.
How so. He's left handed and would move to his more natural spot than to be on the right side with gill.

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03-31-2012, 12:08 AM
  #405
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preds cant seas big games, hold up, wait a second. Didnt we just gain 1 pt on DRW for the home ice advantage, granted nothing guarenteed yet, but one step closer.

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03-31-2012, 12:11 AM
  #406
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If this team was any good they would have gotten a shut-out ... bunch of hacks ...

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Old
03-31-2012, 06:23 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
How so. He's left handed and would move to his more natural spot than to be on the right side with gill.
The natural side for a lefty is the right side.

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03-31-2012, 08:17 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
The natural side for a lefty is the right side.
Huh? I'm using the perspective as looking at from the goalie on our team. Left is left, right is right correct? So what you're saying is Weber and Suter are playing their unnatural sides? Always thought a left handed shot played the left side and the right handed shot played the right side as it's easier to play the puck back and forth to one another on defense. If what I'm reading from you is what I'm thinking it is, the left handed player would be on the right side naturally and the right handed player would be on the left side? They'd have much more work to do to gain control of the puck.

If we look at our pairings last night, we had Weber/Suter and Bouillon/Klein as two of the pairings. Is that natural or unnatural? And if that's the case, the Gill/Josi pairing, who is playing their natural side? Once again, if what I'm understanding from your statement, we would have 5 of 6 defensemen playing their unnatural position. Help me understand this because I may have pulled an Austin Powers and gone cross eyed.

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03-31-2012, 10:36 AM
  #409
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Hmm....well, I have to back up on my statement as I was thinking from a forward standpoint. There's much less of a "natural" side for defensemen. Some prefer to play with their stick in the boards. Others prefer to have their stick towards the center. However, with forwards, it is much more common to have a player's shot on the "other" hand - such as a right wing shooting left.

There's obvious advantages and disadvantages for each. For defensemen, having their stick towards the boards makes it easier to keep the puck in and to clear. However, it means you have to wait a bit longer for the one-timer to arrive and makes D-to-D passing slightly more difficult.

For forwards though, they generally want their stick towards the inside for the one-timer. However, forwards who drive the net a lot may want it to the outside, as it makes holding off a defender easier.


Last edited by wadesworld: 03-31-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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03-31-2012, 10:42 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
Nope.

A left-handed player playing along the left side would have his stick on the board side. If his right-handed D-partner is on the right side, his stick is on the board side too. That makes the D-to-D passes much more difficult.

Thus, the "natural" side is for a left-handed player to be on the right side, so his stick is towards the center of the ice. With both players on their natural side, both sticks are towards the center of the ice, making the D-to-D passes much easier.

The same is true for forwards too. Generally you want your RW to be left-handed and your LW to be right-handed.

In the Gill/Josi pairing, whomever is playing on the right side is playing on the "wrong" side.

Note that this is just a general preference by coaches/players. Obviously in the case of injury, a mid-shift change or simply not an even distribution of opposite handed players, a player may end up playing on the "wrong" side. I'm sure there probably have also been players that have preferred playing on the "wrong" side"

You contradict yourself when you get to the point about Gill/Josi. So you're saying Weber and Suter are playing the wrong side? That makes no sense to me. The way they are now makes it easier for them to pass back and forth since it's on their forehand as opposed to having to make backhanded passes to their partners. Someone please help. This is getting more confusing by the minute.

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03-31-2012, 11:30 AM
  #411
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Glenn, I was just going by what I see most. Weber, Ellis, Blum, Josi, Klein all play the right side more the left, gill, suter, and cube the left.

I know they can play the opposite side, but I think that is more a move for beginning of year rather than now

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03-31-2012, 01:05 PM
  #412
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Sides is not a big deal for defenders. Maybe on a faceoff they get to a position they feel best about but during defending time they grab guys based on position on the ice and who has the best angle. I would say Weber and Suter are what you would call a two way defender and can either be labeled as a RD or LD.

Forwards it is a whole different story.

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03-31-2012, 01:35 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Sides is not a big deal for defenders. Maybe on a faceoff they get to a position they feel best about but during defending time they grab guys based on position on the ice and who has the best angle. I would say Weber and Suter are what you would call a two way defender and can either be labeled as a RD or LD.

Forwards it is a whole different story.
How can it not be a big deal? I know these guys are pros but if you switched the sides Suter and Weber play on, they would be less effective because the passing they are able to do now, which is all on the forehand would be harder to do if they switched sides because all their passing would be from their backhand or by different positioning which doesn't seem natural.

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03-31-2012, 01:36 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Glenn, I was just going by what I see most. Weber, Ellis, Blum, Josi, Klein all play the right side more the left, gill, suter, and cube the left.

I know they can play the opposite side, but I think that is more a move for beginning of year rather than now
Now I get what you're saying. That is legit but I don't think Josi would have too much trouble with it and going back to his more natural side would be an easier move than if he were to go the opposite way.

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03-31-2012, 08:55 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You contradict yourself when you get to the point about Gill/Josi. So you're saying Weber and Suter are playing the wrong side? That makes no sense to me. The way they are now makes it easier for them to pass back and forth since it's on their forehand as opposed to having to make backhanded passes to their partners. Someone please help. This is getting more confusing by the minute.
It's my fault. I wrote my post thinking about forwards, who often prefer to be on the side opposite their handiness. When I realized I was applying it too broadly, I deleted my post and rewrote it. Unfortunately, you'd already read my incorrect post before I deleted it.

As I stated, often you will see defensemen on the same side as their hand (i.e. Weber / Suter ). However, there's no hard and fast rule, so you may see defensemen playing on the side opposite their hand (and obviously one has to if you have a pair with the same handidness)

But as others are pointing out, most players can switch sides at will and often have played both sides in their career.

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03-31-2012, 11:23 PM
  #416
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What must happen for the games here to be a HOME game for the Nashville Predators??? Embarrassing just begins to tell the story when there's more noise being made from the visiting team's fans, as well as having them almost outnumber the actual number of people. I didn't get in on the early years of the wings visits, but these last 2 Saturday games involving the crackhawks must rank up there in red-covered groups of fans. If the Preds draw chitown in the playoffs, they are certain to have "home" ice no matter where the series starts.

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03-31-2012, 11:43 PM
  #417
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What must happen for the games here to be a HOME game for the Nashville Predators??? Embarrassing just begins to tell the story when there's more noise being made from the visiting team's fans, as well as having them almost outnumber the actual number of people. I didn't get in on the early years of the wings visits, but these last 2 Saturday games involving the crackhawks must rank up there in red-covered groups of fans. If the Preds draw chitown in the playoffs, they are certain to have "home" ice no matter where the series starts.
Yeah that was most def, not a good thing.

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03-31-2012, 11:59 PM
  #418
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Yeah that was most def, not a good thing.
You can thank the rich season ticket holders who get the tickets as a status symbol and could care less how big of a game the Preds are in and sell thier tickets for triple the price they bought them for. Its open season for all the Wings and Hawks fans within 400 miles because it is easier and cheaper to get tickets to a game here than in Chicago or Detroit. 99% of the people who have season tickets in the lower bowl in Chicago and Detroit care about hockey and love the team. Still to many of are season ticket holders have the tickets to show they have money to friends an co-workers and could care less about hockey. They go because it is cool and then when they get the chance make a big profit off of tickets.

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04-01-2012, 12:48 AM
  #419
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What kills me is where were all these die hard Blackhawks fans 3-4 years ago. No where. The wings fans have at least been around for a while. Alot of these idiots in Hawks gear just discovered they had a team worth watching.

My negatives for the night: Legwand showing his over paid side tonight, several bad/costly turnovers, poor passing again, (passing into skates, passing to empty ice, passing to an opposing player etc) failure to adjust the pp for a another option besides give it to Shea and get out of the way, failure to play the body. We need to put a bungee cord on Gill, he does not need to go past the red line.

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04-01-2012, 12:55 AM
  #420
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What kills me is where were all these die hard Blackhawks fans 3-4 years ago. No where. The wings fans have at least been around for a while. Alot of these idiots in Hawks gear just discovered they had a team worth watching.
Lets see, my join date 2006. Sez hi.

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04-01-2012, 12:58 AM
  #421
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Lets see, my join date 2006. Sez hi.
In Mar 2006 entire rows were unsold at the UC on game day. It was harder to get Wolves tickets than those for the Hawks. My seeing Esposito in goal for the Hawks says whooptie-do on your join date.

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04-01-2012, 01:07 AM
  #422
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In Mar 2006 entire rows were unsold at the UC on game day. It was harder to get Wolves tickets than those for the Hawks. My seeing Esposito in goal for the Hawks says whooptie-do on your join date.
Good one. You have me by one year. I just felt the bizarre need to register with HF and converse with other hockey fans.

As far as '06, the bad old WWW years. Pleaaase lets not go there but you are correct, once the asshat Pulford was canned, there was some hope.

As far as Espo goes, hes a legend. I miss watching the Hawks on WGN w/ Lloyd Pettit on the play by play.

BTW, congrats to the Preds and Trotz on 500. Thats some rare air.

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04-01-2012, 01:11 AM
  #423
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My join date on here has nothing to do with how long I have been following hockey. I watched Gretzky and co win a few cups in the 80s. I remember listening to Chicago games on the radio when Denis Savard and company were playing. Been a FSTH for the Preds since 07.

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04-01-2012, 03:01 AM
  #424
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What kills me is where were all these die hard Blackhawks fans 3-4 years ago. No where. The wings fans have at least been around for a while. Alot of these idiots in Hawks gear just discovered they had a team worth watching.


If I remember correctly the Hawks were going through terrible ownership issues back for several years until maybe 07 or so. Maybe later than that I don't really remember, but I know attendance used to be terrible. But they were an awful team and fans were annoyed at ownership (I think) so many people just didn't go. I will never question Blackhawk fans' loyalty. I honestly think Chicago is the best sports town in the country and every one of their teams is backed by tremendous fans. The Blackhawks/ownership/low attendance thing was much like the LA Dodgers in baseball last year. No one wanted to go to games and give owner Frank McCourt any of their money, so they stayed home. When I wanted to go watch the Padres play there, none of my Dodger friends would go because they were boycotting ownership. Yet no one will question the passion of that fan base. I'm under the impression that the Hawks were in that same scenario, but if I'm wrong I'd like to be corrected by someone who does know.

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Old
04-01-2012, 01:19 PM
  #425
token grinder
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you get an old team with fans, win a championship and get new fans. it is that easy. see the red sox. I get it. I don't fault them at all.

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