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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
04-01-2012, 12:00 PM
  #626
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
3) If the best assets you can return for him is a 2nd rounder, you take that risk. What exactly do we lose if he got injured...a 2nd rounder? That's a pretty good risk to take if it means getting a better return for Cammy.
Or maybe, just maybe, try out Cammy-Pleks-Cole (and, I dunno, A.Kost with Max-DD) for a bit longer, and see if both guys still look like they need to be dumped for peanuts asap. I mean, as it stands right now, those two lines that I just listed still sit atop all other combinations tried in terms of +/- per 60 mins ES time together. I'm sure the sample size police will show up again, but those lines combined for 9 goals for and 4 against in 90 mins together at ES.

As long as special teams aren't F-ing the dog, that kind of work from a top 6 can get it done. Too bad no one even bothered to see if they could develop that any further over a longer term, and focus seriously on beefing up the bottom 6 forwards to a level where they actually support the top 6, instead of just taking up the remaining 20 or so minutes per night; you know, since guys like Higgins, Lapierre, Moore, (or even S.Kost) etc were essentially tossed away for nothing, and a void was left that has yet to be re-filled effectively.

Funny to see people typing as if Cammy and A.Kost were done as players, and as if we hadn't already seen possible solutions that might have resulted in them regaining whatever sense of "worth" they had "lost".

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What I personally think is that Gauthier knew he was going to get rid of AK, and that's why he looked at Bourque. A similar type, with a similar cap, but signed for multiple years. I think he was going to try to find Cammy's replacement on the open market.


In any event, the only way this becomes a solid trade for us is if Holland becomes a beast and/or the 2nd round pick selection becomes a great player.
You could be right. Would make sense on some level at least.

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04-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Anyone else find it funny that Halak got pity because Price was always the 'Habs' guy' but now in St.Louis he is in the exact opposite position being the 'Blues' guy' in front of Elliott who was benched in favour of him for 2 straight games now despite getting 3 shutouts in a row.
If Halak had a 13-25 record as Price had in 09/10 then you might have a point.

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04-01-2012, 12:17 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Or maybe, just maybe, try out Cammy-Pleks-Cole (and, I dunno, A.Kost with Max-DD) for a bit longer, and see if both guys still look like they need to be dumped for peanuts asap. I mean, as it stands right now, those two lines that I just listed still sit atop all other combinations tried in terms of +/- per 60 mins ES time together. I'm sure the sample size police will show up again, but those lines combined for 9 goals for and 4 against in 90 mins together at ES.

As long as special teams aren't F-ing the dog, that kind of work from a top 6 can get it done. Too bad no one even bothered to see if they could develop that any further over a longer term, and focus seriously on beefing up the bottom 6 forwards to a level where they actually support the top 6, instead of just taking up the remaining 20 or so minutes per night; you know, since guys like Higgins, Lapierre, Moore, (or even S.Kost) etc were essentially tossed away for nothing, and a void was left that has yet to be re-filled effectively.

Funny to see people typing as if Cammy and A.Kost were done as players, and as if we hadn't already seen possible solutions that might have resulted in them regaining whatever sense of "worth" they had "lost".



You could be right. Would make sense on some level at least.
Pacioretty-Plek-Gio

Good two-way line that can score while playing against other team's top lines

Cammy-DD-Cole

Mostly offensive line that can exploit other team's bottom six, has proven to work great over a short sample. Would have taken Cammy out of the D assignment playing with Plek meant wich suits him more.

Moen-Eller-AK

The line that has spent the second most ES time together this season. Playing a mix of 1rst and 2nd line opposition (mostly 2nd) and with a 48% Ozone start, they did 55% on scoring chances(wich mean that 55% of the scoring chances that happened whle they were on the ice were for us). Putting Leblanc instead of Moen was also a possibility.



We went from AK being our 5th best winger to Bourque, who would have been the 6th best on that lineup, being our 3rd best.
Like what was said in that young players thread, this management has a huge problem in knowing who their best players are (or what makes good players good ) and what kind of roles they should be put in to succeed.

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04-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #629
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The other issue with Cammalleri is that while he's not good enough to make this club into an 8th place team, he would have (very likely) been good enough to bump us from 2nd last place to 6th or 7th last place, and thus would have been a negative asset to the team.

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04-01-2012, 12:24 PM
  #630
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So Cammy is helping Calgary go to the playoffs ?


don't worry. A new coach will help Bourque get out of his shell...Or he will be traded, which is easier with a 3,3 million cap hit that a 6 million one.

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04-01-2012, 12:28 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo
Anyone else find it funny that Halak got pity because Price was always the 'Habs' guy' but now in St.Louis he is in the exact opposite position being the 'Blues' guy' in front of Elliott who was benched in favour of him for 2 straight games now despite getting 3 shutouts in a row.
------------------------------

They should have left Elliot in since they lost both those games, even lost to Columbus last night.

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04-01-2012, 12:31 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
So Cammy is helping Calgary go to the playoffs ?


don't worry. A new coach will help Bourque get out of his shell...Or he will be traded, which is easier with a 3,3 million cap hit that a 6 million one.
3.3M over 4 years.

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04-01-2012, 12:33 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
3.3M over 4 years.
The cap will be substantially higher in 4 years than it is now, it typically rises by 7%/year, so in 4 years his 3.3 million cap hit will have depreciated to ~2.3 million, i.e. below the league average.

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04-01-2012, 12:39 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
3.3M over 4 years.
He's being paid like a 2nd/3rd line tweener, someone that can score 20 goals. $3.3 million is exactly what he's worth IMO.

Cammalleri is paid as a 1st liner but never put up 1st line totals in Montreal, other than in the playoffs.

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04-02-2012, 10:57 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The cap will be substantially higher in 4 years than it is now, it typically rises by 7%/year, so in 4 years his 3.3 million cap hit will have depreciated to ~2.3 million, i.e. below the league average.
Except that next year there will be little if any rise to the cap (it might even go down), with the new CBA. So your 7% per year for four years is going to be significantly affected when it doesn't happen this summer.

HRR percentage stays the same (56%) - ~69-70 million cap.
HRR down to 52-53% - ~ cap will stay close to what it is
HRR down to 50% (same as NBA/NFL) - cap will drop to around 60-61 million

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04-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #636
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No matter how you slice it, Cammy was a panic move that didn't make sense from a cup building perspective. We trade for another vet who the club can't wait to be rid of and we do it less than 24 hours after he embarrasses PG. PG says he waited because Bourque was unders suspension and yet Cammy is pulled out mid game while Bourque is STILL suspended. Then we drive AK's value into the ground immediately before dumping him too. Made absolutely no sense then, less sense now and it's just another reason why the guy was sacked.

A headache plus a couple of 2nd rounders and middling prospects for AK and Cammy? Brutal. Once again, we become the dumping ground for players nobody else wants and we don't get 1st rounders out of it. An absolute disgrace.

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04-02-2012, 11:39 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No matter how you slice it, Cammy was a panic move that didn't make sense from a cup building perspective. We trade for another vet who the club can't wait to be rid of and we do it less than 24 hours after he embarrasses PG. PG says he waited because Bourque was unders suspension and yet Cammy is pulled out mid game while Bourque is STILL suspended. Then we drive AK's value into the ground immediately before dumping him too. Made absolutely no sense then, less sense now and it's just another reason why the guy was sacked.

A headache plus a couple of 2nd rounders and middling prospects for AK and Cammy? Brutal. Once again, we become the dumping ground for players nobody else wants and we don't get 1st rounders out of it. An absolute disgrace.
Do you sleep well ?

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04-02-2012, 07:07 PM
  #638
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Anyone else think he'd be great as our 3rd/4th line shut down guy? Let him finish where he started and the organization can do right by him.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19578231.html

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04-02-2012, 07:41 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Except that next year there will be little if any rise to the cap (it might even go down), with the new CBA. So your 7% per year for four years is going to be significantly affected when it doesn't happen this summer.

HRR percentage stays the same (56%) - ~69-70 million cap.
HRR down to 52-53% - ~ cap will stay close to what it is
HRR down to 50% (same as NBA/NFL) - cap will drop to around 60-61 million
Salary rollbacks as with the last CBA?

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04-02-2012, 07:41 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Anyone else think he'd be great as our 3rd/4th line shut down guy? Let him finish where he started and the organization can do right by him.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19578231.html
be a good pr move only,from his own words,

Quote:
And Koivu still wants that team to be the one where he has spent the last three seasons.

ďI feel like I want to continue,Ē Koivu said. ďBut the circumstances kind of have to be right in a way that I feel comfortable, my family feels comfortable and Iím not going to drag my family and move the kids and do something just for a year or go into a rebuilding kind of (situation).

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04-02-2012, 07:44 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Salary rollbacks as with the last CBA?
Hard to say but I doubt it, especially if HRR is set at 52-53% like I suspect.

This will mean little to no change to the cap and no need for rollbacks

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04-02-2012, 07:49 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
be a good pr move only,from his own words,
If the situation was right maybe:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...big-milestone/

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04-02-2012, 07:52 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I don't think he wants to come back now, i might be wrong.

1. the new gm needs to want him...what the odds of that?


2. does he miss the media in Mtl? I don't think .

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04-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Anyone else think he'd be great as our 3rd/4th line shut down guy? Let him finish where he started and the organization can do right by him.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19578231.html
Quote:
ďIím competitive so Iím going to fight for my spot. But the one thing Iíve always felt is Iím honest with myself. When it comes to a point where either I donít enjoy it or I canít really help the team anymore, then Iím not going to be here and play a fourth-line role just to be around. That will never happen.Ē

.....

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04-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #645
loudi94
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.....
ďIím competitive so Iím going to fight for my spot. But the one thing Iíve always felt is Iím honest with myself. When it comes to a point where either I donít enjoy it or I canít really help the team anymore, then Iím not going to be here and play a fourth-line role just to be around. That will never happen.Ē

Pretty sure he'd have a significant role here or in Anaheim.

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04-02-2012, 08:39 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
ďIím competitive so Iím going to fight for my spot. But the one thing Iíve always felt is Iím honest with myself. When it comes to a point where either I donít enjoy it or I canít really help the team anymore, then Iím not going to be here and play a fourth-line role just to be around. That will never happen.Ē

Pretty sure he'd have a significant role here or in Anaheim.
Wouldn't have thought it possible to see Koivu come back, but now that Bob, PG, and Martin are all gone, maybe the right plea from the right person/people could convince him to come back. I would have rather had him for his mid-30s than any time in his late-30s, but hows about a 3rd line of Eller-Koivu-Leblanc next year? Either one of those guys (probably Eller) just slides into the centre once Koivu's gone, and some continuity/chemistry is maintained. Wonder if Koivu would come back for that kind of role. I don't think even I'd go out of my way to make that happen next year, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.

I'd instantly love the new GM if they stepped up and "fixed" a defining error of the previous regime by getting rid of Gomez (whatever it takes) and bringing back Koivu in his place.

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04-02-2012, 09:34 PM
  #647
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Anyone else think he'd be great as our 3rd/4th line shut down guy? Let him finish where he started and the organization can do right by him.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../19578231.html
i would love it if he were to comeback here

with the GM change the chances of him coming back rose a little bit

however if he does comeback does he become captain again?
would it be fair to gionta if we took it away and gave it to koviu?
would giont step aisde?

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04-02-2012, 10:01 PM
  #648
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I love Koivu but he needs to go to a contender. There is no point in the Habs bringing him in to centre the 3rd line.

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04-02-2012, 10:24 PM
  #649
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I love Koivu but he needs to go to a contender. There is no point in the Habs bringing him in to centre the 3rd line.
I agree. I want to see him win a cup. He has few years left ahead of him. He better sign with a team that will contend in the very near future.

Not that I don't want him back. I do. But he deserves to win it all. And I want to see him win it all. And let's be honest: I think we will have a better team next year, but definitely not Stanley-Cup-good. Not yet.

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04-02-2012, 10:54 PM
  #650
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I love Koivu but he needs to go to a contender. There is no point in the Habs bringing him in to centre the 3rd line.
Sure, that's fair enough. But what if no "guaranteed" contenders for next year actually come knocking July 1st? At the very least, it's possible that Montreal would be top/high on the "alternatives" list - should he want out of Anaheim, that is. Bet he stays put, but who knows.

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