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Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf Discussion

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Old
03-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by teemuselanne View Post
A lot of it depends on both the play of them and the team next year. I'd assume they're both looking to get in the 8mil range?
If they plan to stay together, then they have to know that 8 million is unacceptable.

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03-27-2012, 02:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
If they plan to stay together, then they have to know that 8 million is unacceptable.
Do you think playing together is that big of a factor for them? I'm not denying it I'm just wondering, I know they're good friends but I don't know if they're willing to take big cuts in order to play together

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03-27-2012, 02:32 PM
  #28
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8 mil is a bit more than I'd be wanting to pay.

I'm more apt to see 5 year, 30-35 mil deals.

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03-27-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
If they plan to stay together, then they have to know that 8 million is unacceptable.
It isn't unacceptable with Ryan gone, or an owner willing to spend above 2008 levels.

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03-27-2012, 03:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
If they plan to stay together, then they have to know that 8 million is unacceptable.
Getzlaf's cap hit was 9.8% of the cap the first year. 8M would be 11.4% of a 70M cap. Hard to argue that he and Perry aren't worth 8.

The main thing we need is the full revenue sharing regardless of market size.

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03-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Getzlaf's cap hit was 9.8% of the cap the first year. 8M would be 11.4% of a 70M cap. Hard to argue that he and Perry aren't worth 8.

The main thing we need is the full revenue sharing regardless of market size.
I'm not saying that they aren't worth it, but they have to know that a team like ours probably isn't going to throw down 8 million a piece on two different players. It's more likely that we'd offer it to one, and trade the other.

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03-27-2012, 04:05 PM
  #32
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It isn't unacceptable with Ryan gone, or an owner willing to spend above 2008 levels.
This is a professional franchise that apparently wants to take in money for tickets. You have 3 'big money' guys in Getz/Perry/Ryan and all three will eventually get raises over the next couple years.

The Ducks have tons of free cap space right now and even more freeing up over the next couple years.

They all fit under the cap, quite easily. If Ryan's very reasonable contract is somehow a blockage for Perry/Getz extensions, then I am not sure if there is any hope for this team every being competitive again without somehow trading and praying for some youngsters to jump in and carry them to a cup on a discount budget.

The Ducks aren't in a spot where someone is demanding a raise and there isn't room to fit it. They aren't pressed up against the cap, having to make hard decisions about "Who has to go" or "Who fits best on this team" or "Who demanded a trade". They have wiggle room, time, space, and a few talented guys that will get modest raises.

If this franchise can't handle paying 3 good players, then I am not sure why it exists as a franchise.

Does that mean we can only ever afford 2 good players? Lets say a youngster comes in next year and puts in 25 goals. Do people then begin to panic that he will eventually deserve a raise and we must immediately trade Ryan or Getz or Perry in order to accommodate his 8 mil salary he might get 5 years down the line?

8 mil is a big number with no home-team discount. I'd like 6.5/season from both Getz and Perry, but would be happy around 7.25/season.

That's plenty of room to pay Ryan. If that means we can't afford Ryan, then that means we will never afford any other descent player besides Getz/Perry, and that means this franchise just needs to give up.

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Old
03-27-2012, 04:16 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm not saying that they aren't worth it, (...)
Well, if you aren't, I am. At least for Getzlaf, I am. I don't think he's worth that, and I don't think cap percentages are the common way players, agents and GMs look at salaries; I believe that comparables are still more determining. Sure, we don't have that many comparables around, which is a bit of a problem in that regard. The closest is Weber, IMO, even though he was in his last RFA year. He got $7.5M for that one year. That didn't buy any UFA years, however. Then again, Weber was a Norris nominee, while Getzlaf was not a top-20 (just a wild guess) player in the league this season. It's a very shaky comparision to make, but I'll take it over the cap-percentage. There's no question he can get more, but that has little to do with what he is objectively worth.

It's a tough spot. We obviously can't afford to let him walk. But it's difficult to say what we can really afford to keep him for if he wanted to break the bank. If both stay, I think it's Perry's turn to let Getzlaf "steal a bunch of money" from him, as I can't see them signing different deals, at least in terms of annual average.

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03-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, if you aren't, I am. At least for Getzlaf, I am. I don't think he's worth that, and I don't think cap percentages are the common way players, agents and GMs look at salaries; I believe that comparables are still more determining. Sure, we don't have that many comparables around, which is a bit of a problem in that regard. The closest is Weber, IMO, even though he was in his last RFA year. He got $7.5M for that one year. That didn't buy any UFA years, however. Then again, Weber was a Norris nominee, while Getzlaf was not a top-20 (just a wild guess) player in the league this season. It's a very shaky comparision to make, but I'll take it over the cap-percentage. There's no question he can get more, but that has little to do with what he is objectively worth.

It's a tough spot. We obviously can't afford to let him walk. But it's difficult to say what we can really afford to keep him for if he wanted to break the bank. If both stay, I think it's Perry's turn to let Getzlaf "steal a bunch of money" from him, as I can't see them signing different deals, at least in terms of annual average.
I'm assuming the two hold out for a few months to show that they can do better with a fresh start. If it's in July, then I agree, Getzlaf doesn't deserve that.

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03-27-2012, 04:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm assuming the two hold out for a few months to show that they can do better with a fresh start. If it's in July, then I agree, Getzlaf doesn't deserve that.
That would seem sensible for Getzlaf. But at the end of the day, if he knows he wants to stay in Anaheim, he'll want that extension before camp starts, and I have a hard time seeing Murray holding that season over his head and lowballing his team's captain too badly (and by lowballing I don't mean low in terms of what he could get somewhere, but in terms of what the Ducks can actually afford to pay him). They would come up with a fair number, I believe, under that premise. But who knows what Getzlaf wants to do. I know he's married (a girl form California, IIRC) and he's saying all the right things, but who knows if he doesn't feel growing up in Canada has been great to him and he wants to have the same for his kid (just a random example), and if more money comes with it, which it obviously would, even better. There are a ton of things one can imagine. My gut say both will sign before the end of 2012, and ignoring some of the pieces that would constitute a market value, for something like $6.75M. I have to admit that I have little of a rationalisation for that, however.

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03-27-2012, 11:29 PM
  #36
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Getz gives me more of the impression of wanting to stay then just the family thing. He doesn't strike me as a player who wants the big spotlight, which is exactly what would happen if he went to Canada. Plus moving a family is hard, but moving a family with a baby is ridiculous.

As for contract negotiations:
Murray isn't dumb, he's not going to push this year's numbers too much because he knows that Getzlaf doesn't have to sign, and he knows they are lows for him. I see Getz signing for right around 7 million, and I think it will happen fairly early as well. Perry worries me though. Yes he's never given any indication that he's wanted to leave, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him doing something similar to what Weber and Suter are doing to Nashville this year. He's not going to want to play for someone that isn't committed to winning, and right now I wouldn't call the Ducks as committed as others. Yes, that's not really fair because we don't have the $$$ that other teams do, but I don't think Perry cares. If we can be a better team next year (meaning playoff contending) I see Murray using Getzlaf's new contract as a benchmark, and Perry will get 7.5 per year.

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03-28-2012, 04:50 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theridion
That's plenty of room to pay Ryan. If that means we can't afford Ryan, then that means we will never afford any other descent player besides Getz/Perry, and that means this franchise just needs to give up.
You're doing about half the players in the league a huge disservice by using Ryan as the minimum threshold for "decent player."

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03-28-2012, 06:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theridion View Post
That's plenty of room to pay Ryan. If that means we can't afford Ryan, then that means we will never afford any other descent player besides Getz/Perry, and that means this franchise just needs to give up.
If the team decides it can't afford Ryan, it would be because he can't handle being split from Getzlaf/Perry. Meaning the first line would be overloaded with talent, and not enough money for other lines or the defense.

It's not a matter of being able to afford decent players. It's efficiently filling the roster.

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Old
04-01-2012, 04:11 AM
  #39
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Getzlaf and Perry both sign for 7 years 60 million.

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04-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #40
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I can`t believe that u guys wanna give them 8mill/yr...

If floating around for 3/4 of the season gets them that kind of raise I`m confused.

Toews 6,3
Sharp 5,9
Datsyuk 6,7
Koivu 6,75
Kovalchuk 6,7
Richards 6,7
Spezza 7
Backes 4,5
Stamkos 7,5
Sedins 6,1
Backström 6,7
...

Basically every player besides Malkin, Ovie and Sid would be cheaper... I would take any player listed above rather than Getzlaf on my team based on this years effort and salary if he wants 8. If ownership gives him a hefty raise now - they shoot themselves in the leg. Imagine what guys will be wanting after a good season after that...

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04-01-2012, 01:50 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonlin View Post
I can`t believe that u guys wanna give them 8mill/yr...

If floating around for 3/4 of the season gets them that kind of raise I`m confused.

Toews 6,3
Sharp 5,9
Datsyuk 6,7
Koivu 6,75
Kovalchuk 6,7
Richards 6,7
Spezza 7
Backes 4,5
Stamkos 7,5
Sedins 6,1
Backström 6,7
...

Basically every player besides Malkin, Ovie and Sid would be cheaper... I would take any player listed above rather than Getzlaf on my team based on this years effort and salary if he wants 8. If ownership gives him a hefty raise now - they shoot themselves in the leg. Imagine what guys will be wanting after a good season after that...
All those contracts were either signed when the cap was 20-30M lower, cap avoidance retirement contracts where the actual salaries are as much as double the cap hits right now, or both. The Ducks don't do front-loaded cap evasion contracts and the high cap means that the going rate for star talent goes up because SOMEONE can afford it.

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Old
04-01-2012, 02:12 PM
  #42
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When Perry signed his contract, people said he got that money because of Getzlaf. In the next contract, Getzlaf is going to get his money because of Perry. Both guys are the franchise and will be paid the same, hopefully at a discount.

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