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3.31.12 Hawks @ Preds 500 and counting

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Old
04-01-2012, 10:53 AM
  #251
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As I watched the replay today I saw Legwand didn't get beat to the net from being lazy he got tangled up with Seabrook along the wall feel and couldn't recover in time to stop Seabrook. Unfortunate event and I unfairly accused Legwand I was steaming mad at the time but once again I didn't have the luxury of replay. Sucks it had to be decided on a weird play like that.

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04-01-2012, 11:01 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by cleangene View Post
My thoughts exactly. Extended PK times would be a guess and Toots reverting to his "giveaway" mode, but still their abscences were very noticeable.
I think it's time for Toots to take a seat with McG and enjoy the rest of the season. It's not a Toots bad thing as much as it's our depth. Sitting Smith and Wilson, if that 4th line is gonna' skate limited minutes, doesn't make much sense. Sure, neither are "energy" guys and they clearly bring a whole lotta' holes in their defensive games, but they bring a ton of upside and if you limit the time they're on the ice you minimize the risk of defensive lapse and you get a much better upside opportunity cause of the matchups they're gonna' get. Personally I'd rather see Wilson skating on the 3rd, but I want those guys in the game, and if it's minimal minutes and they play the PK, I'll live with Bourqe and Horny and Spals on the 3rd and a 4th line of special teams specialists.

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04-01-2012, 11:23 AM
  #253
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Dean, I agree with you on Wilson and Smith. To be honest, I wonder if we focus too much on D as a team as opposed to putting pressure on teams offensively all the time. Let's say AK is a fixture on the Legwand/Rads line now, that means Hornqvist is playing with Spaling and Bourque. Not that I mind this combo as it brings a lot of energy, tenaciousness and such but would a line of Smith, Wilson and Hornqvist make more sense? More puck control. Decent on the defensive side as Smith is responsible and Hornqvist is underrated in this phase of game IMO. Heck, even Rads is hustling back on D so guys are buying into the system. So why not put pressure or try to play a puck possession game with three pretty good offensive lines and a checking/energy line when needed. Something like this.

Fisher/SK/Erat
Legwand/AK/Rads
Smith/Hornqvist/Wilson
Gaustad/Spaling/Bourque or Hali or Tootoo

If we could roll that top 9, that is pretty stout. While it's not dominating at the top, it's solid on each line. You still have guys like Gaustad and Spaling for the PK in addition to Fisher, SK, Legwand and Erat if need be. Bourque or Hali would fill in there as well. You'd also be able to mix and match the top 9 depending on matchups a lot better if you ask me. You also add some size back to the lineup with Wilson along with some pretty good speed in Smith.

While I know Trotz is not a big fan of youngsters, at some point he's got to let these guys sink or swim. You don't draft a guy like Wilson to sit him in the playoffs two years in a row. If he's not getting the message, he should've been dealt at the deadline and if not, then he should be playing and learning as opposed to sitting.

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04-01-2012, 11:28 AM
  #254
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On the Suter assists ... it's not that he made miracle passes for those primary assists, but watch what he does beforehand. The first one he gets Mayers to look spastic on the ice. The second is a little slide to his left, pulling Hossa with him and creating a lane for Weber. The last he and Leggy get the puck into the zone while Radulov and AK come on from the bench. Moving with the puck to create space for his partner who moved without the puck on all three goals. Little things.

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04-01-2012, 11:37 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Dean, I agree with you on Wilson and Smith. To be honest, I wonder if we focus too much on D as a team as opposed to putting pressure on teams offensively all the time. Let's say AK is a fixture on the Legwand/Rads line now, that means Hornqvist is playing with Spaling and Bourque. Not that I mind this combo as it brings a lot of energy, tenaciousness and such but would a line of Smith, Wilson and Hornqvist make more sense? More puck control. Decent on the defensive side as Smith is responsible and Hornqvist is underrated in this phase of game IMO. Heck, even Rads is hustling back on D so guys are buying into the system. So why not put pressure or try to play a puck possession game with three pretty good offensive lines and a checking/energy line when needed. Something like this.

Fisher/SK/Erat
Legwand/AK/Rads
Smith/Hornqvist/Wilson
Gaustad/Spaling/Bourque or Hali or Tootoo

If we could roll that top 9, that is pretty stout. While it's not dominating at the top, it's solid on each line. You still have guys like Gaustad and Spaling for the PK in addition to Fisher, SK, Legwand and Erat if need be. Bourque or Hali would fill in there as well. You'd also be able to mix and match the top 9 depending on matchups a lot better if you ask me. You also add some size back to the lineup with Wilson along with some pretty good speed in Smith.

While I know Trotz is not a big fan of youngsters, at some point he's got to let these guys sink or swim. You don't draft a guy like Wilson to sit him in the playoffs two years in a row. If he's not getting the message, he should've been dealt at the deadline and if not, then he should be playing and learning as opposed to sitting.
It isn't just defense that is getting Wilson in the doghouse. He commented in his interview when first scratched about needing to move more without the puck. He's reminding me a lot of the young Radulov ... not fully buying in and wanting to do things his way resulting his callouts. Both are talented, both are headstrong and both needing to mature when in their early 20s. Radulov did it, time for Wilson to follow suit.


I hate when Crawford is on his game like he was last night. He is a Jekyll/Hyde player .... outstanding or horrendous.

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04-01-2012, 11:44 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
On the Suter assists ... it's not that he made miracle passes for those primary assists, but watch what he does beforehand. The first one he gets Mayers to look spastic on the ice. The second is a little slide to his left, pulling Hossa with him and creating a lane for Weber. The last he and Leggy get the puck into the zone while Radulov and AK come on from the bench. Moving with the puck to create space for his partner who moved without the puck on all three goals. Little things.
Yes, they are little things that most NHLers are capable of doing. His point totals are going to take a big hit next year not being able to play opposite Weber-- unless by chance he ends up in Ottawa with Karlsson.

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04-01-2012, 11:49 AM
  #257
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At this point, if we aren't going to use him, Wilson needs to be moved in the offseason for a piece that we can use. His situation isn't helping anyone.

I also think he should be in the lineup over Tootoo and have a 3rd scoring line that looks like. Wilson Smith/Spaling and Hornqvist. Leaving the last line as Hals Goose Yip/Borque whoever.

Come to think of it, Glenn is spot on. That is the way my lines would look going into the playoffs.

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04-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Yes, they are little things that most NHLers are capable of doing. His point totals are going to take a big hit next year not being able to play opposite Weber-- unless by chance he ends up in Ottawa with Karlsson.
Most NHLers are also capable of at least partially neutralizing what Suter did as well. He did it three times in one game. It's amazing how often there are complaints about the team standing too still, not moving with the puck, not moving without the puck, not creating space for teammates, then when the guys do just that oh it's nothing.

Maybe Suter's points drop, maybe not ... but the same can be said for Weber if they split and he doesn't find the same chemistry with a new partner. They've both mentioned how they have to consciously remind themselves to communicate when partnered with somebody else because they just know what the other is going to do and don't have to say a word.

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04-01-2012, 11:59 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
At this point, if we aren't going to use him, Wilson needs to be moved in the offseason for a piece that we can use. His situation isn't helping anyone.

I also think he should be in the lineup over Tootoo and have a 3rd scoring line that looks like. Wilson Smith/Spaling and Hornqvist. Leaving the last line as Hals Goose Yip/Borque whoever.

Come to think of it, Glenn is spot on. That is the way my lines would look going into the playoffs.
I would like to see Wilson in the lineup but it really isn't an easy choice.

Injuries are likely to happen so at the very least, I think he gets in that way.

I don't want him him moved, unless it's for a really good piece. I think the coaching staff likes him as a whole and sees him as part of the future.

On another note-- Erat-Fisher-SK. Time to break this up, atleast temporarily. Yes it worked for a while but it's not working now. Needs to be a change. SK specifically.

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04-01-2012, 12:08 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Most NHLers are also capable of at least partially neutralizing what Suter did as well. He did it three times in one game. It's amazing how often there are complaints about the team standing too still, not moving with the puck, not moving without the puck, not creating space for teammates, then when the guys do just that oh it's nothing.
It's not nothing. But yes, Weber's shooting ability is the main reason those goals happened. People are giving Suter just as much credit ("you don't get goals without assits") but it's not an evenly weighted thing in this case.

Weber will keep scoring goals as long as he's paired with a decent puck moving defenseman. I have little doubt. If we're lucky enough and he's paired with someone who has a good shot, I expect his goals to go up even more, because teams can't solely hone in Weber knowing that Suter doesn't have a good shot. And if we have more threats on offense (like Radulov), even more space for Weber...

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04-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's not nothing. But yes, Weber's shooting ability is the main reason those goals happened. People are giving Suter just as much credit ("you don't get goals without assits") but it's not an evenly weighted thing in this case.

Weber will keep scoring goals as long as he's paired with a decent puck moving defenseman. I have little doubt. If we're lucky enough and he's paired with someone who has a good shot, I expect his goals to go up even more, because teams can't solely hone in Weber knowing that Suter doesn't have a good shot. And if we have more threats on offense (like Radulov), even more space for Weber...
Suter doesn't have the huge blast, but does have a very effective wrister and is smart with the puck. Weber's biggest issue is that his accuracy is suspect. When he's on target, there's a good chance it's going in clean or off somebody's body ... but a good 1/3+ of the time it's way wide, high, or totally untrackable.

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04-01-2012, 12:24 PM
  #262
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Was this conversation not just torpedoed by a moderator? This needs to end. If you have sources, cool. Don't post things you hear from your sources if you're going to say "but I can't reveal who they are". I'm not calling anyone a liar here, but there is a reason we have rules against posting information without reliable sources. If you cannot disclose who gives you the information then we cannot prove it is reliable, and that means it isn't not welcome on the boards.
Wouldn't those rules have killed the journalistic efforts of Woodward & Bernstein during Watergate?

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04-01-2012, 12:47 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
I think it's time for Toots to take a seat with McG and enjoy the rest of the season. It's not a Toots bad thing as much as it's our depth. Sitting Smith and Wilson, if that 4th line is gonna' skate limited minutes, doesn't make much sense. Sure, neither are "energy" guys and they clearly bring a whole lotta' holes in their defensive games, but they bring a ton of upside and if you limit the time they're on the ice you minimize the risk of defensive lapse and you get a much better upside opportunity cause of the matchups they're gonna' get. Personally I'd rather see Wilson skating on the 3rd, but I want those guys in the game, and if it's minimal minutes and they play the PK, I'll live with Bourqe and Horny and Spals on the 3rd and a 4th line of special teams specialists.

IMO, IF Toots can regain form from the midpoint of the season (maybe he's been/is still injured?), we need him for the playoffs. He gets under players skin and throws them off their game, not to mention his physicality. With the refs allowing more play, he's built for the playoffs.

That said, if he continues to suck like he has the last few weeks, then yes, I'd rather Smith/Wilson play.

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04-01-2012, 01:06 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It isn't just defense that is getting Wilson in the doghouse. He commented in his interview when first scratched about needing to move more without the puck. He's reminding me a lot of the young Radulov ... not fully buying in and wanting to do things his way resulting his callouts. Both are talented, both are headstrong and both needing to mature when in their early 20s. Radulov did it, time for Wilson to follow suit.


I hate when Crawford is on his game like he was last night. He is a Jekyll/Hyde player .... outstanding or horrendous.
Radulov is truly a talent! Has he changed his " not buying in" though, or is he just so offensively gifted, and more mature thqt they are letting him, " do his thing"?
In the two games I have been able to watch your games, he has turned over the puck at the offensive blue line at least twice per game. I have no problem with that, as I prefer a puck control style of game, and it is much more exciting! But are these not the things that Trotz would have a problem with? From what I have seen, the Preds are to robotically dump the puck deep, go forecheck hard to regain possession.
Do not get me wrong, I am not knocking Radulov AT ALL! I am just guessing that there is way more tolerance now than when he was young?

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04-01-2012, 02:30 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I would like to see Wilson in the lineup but it really isn't an easy choice.

Injuries are likely to happen so at the very least, I think he gets in that way.

I don't want him him moved, unless it's for a really good piece. I think the coaching staff likes him as a whole and sees him as part of the future.

On another note-- Erat-Fisher-SK. Time to break this up, atleast temporarily. Yes it worked for a while but it's not working now. Needs to be a change. SK specifically.
How about Erat-Fisher-Hornqvist? I like to see Erat-Fisher-AK but AK is clicking w/ Rads now. Or since everybody wants to see Colin Wilson and Smith getting more ice time, maybe one of them even though it maybe a big stretch/too much for them being on the first line. But we could try it out on a trial basis to see how it does.


Last edited by klt2001: 04-01-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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04-01-2012, 03:03 PM
  #266
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Radulov is truly a talent! Has he changed his " not buying in" though, or is he just so offensively gifted, and more mature thqt they are letting him, " do his thing"?
In the two games I have been able to watch your games, he has turned over the puck at the offensive blue line at least twice per game. I have no problem with that, as I prefer a puck control style of game, and it is much more exciting! But are these not the things that Trotz would have a problem with? From what I have seen, the Preds are to robotically dump the puck deep, go forecheck hard to regain possession.
Do not get me wrong, I am not knocking Radulov AT ALL! I am just guessing that there is way more tolerance now than when he was young?
No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors as far as Rads is concerned but it certainly seems to me that he's buying whatever the team is selling. He's very emotional on the ice (in a good way) and seems to be getting along with his teammates just fine. I like how enthusiastic he is when not only he does something good, but his teammates do also. I think the players probably appreciate him coming back late-season and trying to be just one of the guys rather than a European superstar.

It was also made known at his introductory press conference that he followed the Preds like crazy when he was in Russia. He was able to talk about players on the team now that he never played with. Knew our players' stats, league standings, etc. He seems very happy to be here (for the time being at least) and he seems so much more mature as a player and person that it's hard to describe. But then again, most people will mature a lot between the ages of 21 and 25, regardless of what they do in life.

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04-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #267
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What a game. Hell of a comeback...but that Seabrook goal was a back-breaker. I had written off the game after the first 30 minutes...the last 30 (outside of that damn Seabrook goal) was a treat to watch. I wish we could've at least rewarded ourselves with a point after that...but we can't get them all.

Oh well...time to move on to the next game. Unfortunately, dropping this game probably means Peks will have to play the year out to keep our playoff positioning.

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04-01-2012, 06:37 PM
  #268
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Because he assisted on the two goals prior to that to even make that 5th goal the game winner? Right.

What about Frankie B. Who let Kane cherry pick behind him for (what was at the moment) a crushing goal. And the only Pred to finish -2 on the night in just 13 minutes of TOI?

Or Rinne who allowed FIVE goals, a few where he was just flopping around like a breaching whale?

This loss was a lot more than Legwand not stopping Seabrook, took a total team effort to play as bad as they did in the first half of this game.
I understand what you are saying but what you failed to realize is that after the team busted thier freaking butt to tie the game up they were scored on again in less than 2 minutes because of Legwands lack of hustle. If you fall down make a half ass effort to get up and get back to the guy. Are you telling me that you would want to be in Legwands shoes in the locker room?
That great you mentioned the other things and i clearly addressed them in other posts.


Last edited by TMI: 04-02-2012 at 11:46 AM. Reason: getting personal
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04-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #269
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Hahaha....I'm a Leggy defender and a Klein defender...most of the time...

I beat other dead horses.

The first 30 minutes of team effort lost us the game.... imo, nobody was across the board horrid....

Onward, hopefully the Mild will do us a favor tonight and beat the Hawks...

Personally I don't want to fall to 6th and play the pacific division...


Wilson has been practicing in practice, hasn't he? I wish he would start to turn it up... we need him at his best..

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04-01-2012, 07:26 PM
  #270
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I understand what you are saying but what you failed to realize is that after the team busted thier freaking butt to tie the game up they were scored on again in less than 2 minutes because of Legwands lack of hustle. If you fall down make a half ass effort to get up and get back to the guy. Are you telling me that you would want to be in Legwands shoes in the locker room?
That great you mentioned the other things and i clearly addressed them in other posts.
And of course Legwand is equally to blame for the comeback being necessary to begin with, right? No, no, he had the high-profile moment of weakness, so CLEARLY it's all HIS fault.

Singling out your favorite target when the whole team screwed up in the first half of the game is a bit transparent and very silly.

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04-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #271
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legwand needs to step his game up, period. earn his contract like erat. legwand is too up and down for my liking

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04-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #272
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what you failed to realize is that after the team busted thier freaking butt to tie the game up they were scored on again in less than 2 minutes because of Legwands lack of hustle.
He also set up a great chance that would have put the Preds up 5-4 just before that. Not to mention calling lack of hustle on that goal, Boullion (once again) didn't pressure behind the net and just watched that backhand pass go right through him. Klein in front just watching, never looked to see where anyone else was in the zone. Andrei Kostitsyn with the turnover in the defensive end and not hustling was the last Pred into the defensive zone. Radulov was the only Pred who picked a guy and stuck with him. Seabrook's skates also get into Legwands or he never goes to the ice in the first place. Then you have just a nice backhand pass through the front of the net.

Yes, Legwand likely could have shown more effort which could have helped prevent the goal. But he definitely doesn't have to be ashamed to walk into the room, the other 19 guys in there know what happened in that game and they're certainly not pinning it on one play by Legwand.

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04-01-2012, 07:55 PM
  #273
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legwand needs to step his game up, period. earn his contract like erat. legwand is too up and down for my liking
Is this not his second best scoring season? And can you name another player on this team who has not been incredibly inconsistent? (Radulov excepted)

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04-01-2012, 08:36 PM
  #274
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Is this not his second best scoring season? And can you name another player on this team who has not been incredibly inconsistent? (Radulov excepted)
second best scoring season doesn't mean he doesn't need to step up. and if I remember correctly, he was 1st in the league in scoring for the first month or so? (inflated stats) .. either way, just too inconsistent.. maybe its just the fact he is nothing more than a good 3rd line center and we have continually forced him into a "top" scoring line..

as far as other players being consistent.. radulov, bourque, hornqvist (always giving his all), erat, josi, weber, fisher, halischuk..

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04-01-2012, 08:41 PM
  #275
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You have a weird definition of consistent

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