I made a point to say that his cold "streaks" don't last very long(ie a few games) and I said he'd be fine. I didn't realize it was an outrageous insult to Fleury. The sensitivity around MAF is getting ridiculous. He's not above criticism. The funny thing is, my post was actually defending him anyway.
Streaky means he will win games and then lose as many, or he'll fall into periods of being average. The last 2 seasons, he's been well above average consistently. Streaky is no longer a word I would use to describe Fleury.
Streaky means he will win games and then lose as many, or he'll fall into periods of being average. The last 2 seasons, he's been well above average consistently. Streaky is no longer a word I would use to describe Fleury.
You wouldn't consider a guy, who is typically playing well, suddenly having 3-4 rough games, being on a cold streak? It's a string of games where he's not playing up to his usual standards. That's a streak. A small one. Which was my point. If he didn't have those little mini streaks, his numbers would likely be a lot better and reflect something closer to his actual ability.
You wouldn't consider a guy, who is typically playing well, suddenly having 3-4 rough games, being on a cold streak? It's a string of games where he's not playing up to his usual standards. That's a streak. A small one. Which was my point. If he didn't have those little mini streaks, his numbers would likely be a lot better and reflect something closer to his actual ability.
This is getting stupid, but for a player to be "streaky" he needs to consistently go up and down. Fleury hasn't. He's consistently been playing at a high level for going on two seasons. He's had two bad games.
Streaky means he will win games and then lose as many, or he'll fall into periods of being average. The last 2 seasons, he's been well above average consistently. Streaky is no longer a word I would use to describe Fleury.
Fleury is a notoriously bad playoff performer. Even when we won the cup. It looks like this trend will continue. I don't know if you would call that streaky though.
The thing that sucks now is everything mentally for him is shattered. It's going to be a huge problem.
Devil's advocate here but Fleury is like the Hines Ward of the Pens, simply above any type of criticism for most people. He's never bad, the defense lets him down, bad bounces, he makes the saves when it matters and so on.
That being said, being down 3-2 today he somehow failed to make his patented big timely save on Voracek that he makes 100% of the time every time to keep it a one goal game or the soft goal he gave up when it was 2-0 and the Pens had all the momentum or the 3 goals in 5 minutes he let in against the Isles after the Pens tied the game at 2, so on and so forth.
There's honestly more complaining about Geno and Sid at times that doesn't get the widespread fan defense MAF gets. I mean some people seriously consider him the team's MVP this year, like it would be impossible for a number of other above-average goalies in the league to be in his situation and not do as well. It's strange since most fanbases bash the goalie non-proportionally to their play but here it's the other way around.
Devil's advocate here but Fleury is like the Hines Ward of the Pens, simply above any type of criticism for most people. He's never bad, the defense lets him down, bad bounces, he makes the saves when it matters and so on.
That being said, being down 3-2 today he somehow failed to make his patented big timely save on Voracek that he makes 100% of the time every time to keep it a one goal game or the soft goal he gave up when it was 2-0 and the Pens had all the momentum or the 3 goals in 5 minutes he let in against the Isles after the Pens tied the game at 2, so on and so forth.
There's honestly more complaining about Geno and Sid at times that doesn't get the widespread fan defense MAF gets. I mean some people seriously consider him the team's MVP this year, like it would be impossible for a number of other above-average goalies in the league to be in his situation and not do as well. It's strange since most fanbases bash the goalie non-proportionally to their play but here it's the other way around.
Yeah, I saw and chuckled but was not surprised. I mean take the top 30 goalies in the league and substitute them for Fleury this year and tell me how many do you think would have done as well or better. You'll end up with more than a handful.
Now take any forward in the league and put substitute them for Malkin. How many do as well? Maybe Stamkos and that's it. None of them do better. If someone took a poll of the front offices in the NHL on who is the NHL's MVP this year, they would tell you Malkin by a landslide. If you would even bring up the idea that Fleury is the Pens MVP over Geno in any sort of argument they would just laugh you out the building.
Fleury is a notoriously bad playoff performer. Even when we won the cup. It looks like this trend will continue. I don't know if you would call that streaky though.
The thing that sucks now is everything mentally for him is shattered. It's going to be a huge problem.
Based on stats, right? Because if you watched him in those years we went to the Cup, he stood on his head for quite a few series both of those years.
MAF has laid a single egg in the playoffs...that was the Montreal series.
Based on stats, right? Because if you watched him in those years we went to the Cup, he stood on his head for quite a few series both of those years.
MAF has laid a single egg in the playoffs...that was the Montreal series.
I know people don't like stats when they don't support their argument, and they certainly don't tell the whole story but let's face it, his numbers are what they are and it's not solely because of the team in front of him. We're not talking about two seasons of average numbers, we're talking about an entire career of it. All anyone ever says is "We give up worse chances!!!". Sorry, but anyone that thinks our team has consistently given up higher quality chances than other teams for the entire duration of Fleury's career is either delusional or just trying extremely hard to let the guy off the hook.
Flower is an extremely talented goalie. In fact, if we're just talking raw talent, he's one of the top 3 in the league. But he's not without his faults(namely his puckhandling and focus). It seems that, at times, the Fleury homers aren't willing to concede anything. It's all or nothing. He's either the best goalie in the league who stands on his head night after night bailing out his team, or you're bashing him.
Well after today's "performance", his Save percentage is .9120, which ranks him 29th in the league. The MAF-pologists have their rationales (hey Steigerwald told me he's awesome, for example)- but the objective evidence is that he's the 29th best goalie in the league by save percentage. Either he gets his fragile French-Canadien psyche under control and steps it up, or it's a first-round exit barring Malkin/Crosby putting up 6 goals a night.
I know people don't like stats when they don't support their argument, and they certainly don't tell the whole story but let's face it, his numbers are what they are and it's not solely because of the team in front of him. We're not talking about two seasons of average numbers, we're talking about an entire career of it. All anyone ever says is "We give up worse chances!!!". Sorry, but anyone that thinks our team has consistently given up higher quality chances than other teams for the entire duration of Fleury's career is either delusional or just trying extremely hard to let the guy off the hook.
Flower is an extremely talented goalie. In fact, if we're just talking raw talent, he's one of the top 3 in the league. But he's not without his faults(namely his puckhandling and focus). It seems that, at times, the Fleury homers aren't willing to concede anything. It's all or nothing. He's either the best goalie in the league who stands on his head night after night bailing out his team, or you're bashing him.
He put up pedestrian stats, but was still one of our best players in numerous series. So what matters more? His numbers, or the fact that he's helping the team win games?
Goalie stats are as useful as a **** flavored lollipop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericstrat1
Well after today's "performance", his Save percentage is .9120, which ranks him 29th in the league. The MAF-pologists have their rationales (hey Steigerwald told me he's awesome, for example)- but the objective evidence is that he's the 29th best goalie in the league by save percentage. Either he gets his fragile French-Canadien psyche under control and steps it up, or it's a first-round exit barring Malkin/Crosby putting up 6 goals a night.
He put up pedestrian stats, but was still one of our best players in numerous series. So what matters more? His numbers, or the fact that he's helping the team win games?
Goalie stats are as useful as a **** flavored lollipop.
But when you're evaluating an individual player, you can't just throw stats out completely. They do play a part in that evaluation. In Fleury's case, he's absolutely not as pedestrian as his stats would indicate, but I'm also not prepared to put him as far above his numbers as some on here. He's won a lot of games and that's great. He also plays behind the two best players in the world, a Norris caliber dman and a Selke caliber forward. Not to mention a slew of defensive minded grinders. Fleury has both helped and benefited from the team in front of him
Well after today's "performance", his Save percentage is .9120, which ranks him 29th in the league. The MAF-pologists have their rationales (hey Steigerwald told me he's awesome, for example)- but the objective evidence is that he's the 29th best goalie in the league by save percentage. Either he gets his fragile French-Canadien psyche under control and steps it up, or it's a first-round exit barring Malkin/Crosby putting up 6 goals a night.
I know people don't like stats when they don't support their argument, and they certainly don't tell the whole story but let's face it, his numbers are what they are and it's not solely because of the team in front of him. We're not talking about two seasons of average numbers, we're talking about an entire career of it. All anyone ever says is "We give up worse chances!!!". Sorry, but anyone that thinks our team has consistently given up higher quality chances than other teams for the entire duration of Fleury's career is either delusional or just trying extremely hard to let the guy off the hook.
Flower is an extremely talented goalie. In fact, if we're just talking raw talent, he's one of the top 3 in the league. But he's not without his faults(namely his puckhandling and focus). It seems that, at times, the Fleury homers aren't willing to concede anything. It's all or nothing. He's either the best goalie in the league who stands on his head night after night bailing out his team, or you're bashing him.
Fully agreed.
....and this will now be seen as an epic attack on Fleury.
Based on stats, right? Because if you watched him in those years we went to the Cup, he stood on his head for quite a few series both of those years.
MAF has laid a single egg in the playoffs...that was the Montreal series.
Stats yes. Terrible, every year.
Also he has had one terrific playoff series since 2009, that was the Flyers. Even then he had bad games. Played unreal in 2008 vs Detroit in game five as well.
He then went on to have one of the worst series in my opinion ever, in the Washington series. The Pens were just overwhelmingly better to get it done in 7. Then in Detroit he has another below average series. Game 7 was a defensive stalwart, and he let in a horrendous goal, just like all playoffs for Detroit to get it within one.
Canadien year is obvious, and last year he played terrible against the Lightning.
He is in my opinion a terrible playoff performer, and it is even more obvious if you watch him play, and not base it off of his terrible playoff stats.
Every year it is the same. Penguins outwork, outchance, and outshoot opponents every game, and they are always behind the eight ball. Fleury lets in one of the first 10 shots guaranteed every playoff game. The trend looks to continue as he is reverting back to it.
The posters who are gonna bump a MAF thread after a few bad games are just as predictable as thoe one who will bump a Staal thread after a few bad games.
These last few games is proof that I've been right all along!!!!
The posters who are gonna bump a MAF thread after a few bad games are just as predictable as thoe one who will bump a Staal thread after a few bad games.
These last few games is proof that I've been right all along!!!!
And then after a particularly stellar game from either one, you will be here to do the opposite .
It is not rocket science. People in general are blinkered, and most of us have our own biases we like to 'confirm' when suitable supporting evidence is available.
Hence a strong sustained period from Fleury brings along threads that he should be a Vezina nominee and that he is top3/top5.
NB: This is not to agree with Metalan. There is a lot of room in between the awesome and sucks categories.
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