Watching this last game really depressed me. On the one hand, I should be glad the Oilers lost (better draft position), but on the other hand, I really don't like wanting the Oilers to lose.
Quite simply, tanking sucks.
I believe the biggest problem is that the way the NHL draft lottery is currently set up is the problem. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to have Hall and RNH on the roster, but watching the way the Oilers, Habs, et al. are purposely tanking is, to be honest, a disgrace to the game.
So how to fix it?
I think the NHL draft should be more like the NBA draft. Instead of only being eligible to move up 4 spots, have all top 3 picks chosen by lottery among all of the non-playoff teams. For example, pick #1 is chosen, then pick #2, then pick #3. After that, the rest of the teams pick in order of worst to least. To increase the odds of the worst team getting the first pick, increase their odds from 25% to 30% (with the way the current system is set up, the last-place team has almost a 50% shot of the first pick because teams can only move up four slots).
Personally, I think this would increase competitiveness by teams that are clearly out of the playoffs and would be good for the league.
Your post is based on a false premise that the teams purposely tank, which players would never do. Since it's built based on an incorrect assumption, the rest is kinda pointless.
Damn, I feel like I'm on the Main Board again. There were one of these threads made once a day last week.
There is nothing wrong with the draft system. Yeah sure, it sucks when a team sucks so bad for a few years that they eventually stockpile a few top picks. That does not guarantee a Stanley cup though.
Trust me, you do not want the NHL to adopt a lottery style like the NBA's.
I don't see how the Oilers are tanking. I didn't get to watch most of the game but they were in it till the last 5 minutes or so when King got the second goal. Dubnyk stood on his head. If you are tanking you don't play Dubnyk, you play Khaby.
I don't think the draft lottery system would change 1 thing about the Oilers season this year.
I'm not saying that the draft lottery is perfect, i'f like minor tweeks but i'd still like to see the worst teams with the best chances to pick first. SOmething based off of the amount of points they accumulate would be my ideal solution.
Had we finished 9th this year, it would've at least showed that the team is making progress and is competitive. We have Hall and RNH and having THIS TEAM battle for a playoff spot IMO would bode well for the future cuz the young players can learn from experience and pressure situations.
Finishing in the lottery only breeds a losing culture and if we don't change the mentality soon, we'll never get out of this funk.
Had we finished 9th this year, it would've at least showed that the team is making progress and is competitive. We have Hall and RNH and having THIS TEAM battle for a playoff spot IMO would bode well for the future cuz the young players can learn from experience and pressure situations.
Finishing in the lottery only breeds a losing culture and if we don't change the mentality soon, we'll never get out of this funk.
I don't think you understood what he was saying. He was referring to the OP's draft change idea. Saying that a team that finishes 15th needs a higher pick than a team that finishes 9th.
Exactly, if it weren't for the draft format some teams would never climb out of the basement.
Why not?
Columbus would still have a 30% shot at the first pick. If not, the winning team's balls are removed (from the lottery!) and Columbus has an even higher shot at the 2nd pick. If they still don't win, they have an even higher shot at the 3rd pick. Worst case scenario, they get the 4th pick.
All I want out of this is to de-incentivize late season tanking.
To the people who complain about the NBA-style lottery, I'm guessing most of it is about the Tim Duncan selection. The NBA actually changed the lottery after that to increase the chances of the lower-place teams winning and decrease the odds of teams that just missed out on the playoffs winning.
For example:
250 balls in the draft
#30 70 balls (28%) Chances are, Columbus (#30), would still win. But say the
#29 45 balls (18%) Oilers (currently #29) win. Then Columbus has a 34% chance
#28 30 balls (12%) to get the #2 pick. Say Minnesota somehow (currently #24)
#27 25 balls (10%) wins. Columbus still has a 37% shot at getting the #3 pick.
#26 20 balls (8%) Worst case scenario, they pick 4th.
#25 15 balls (6%)
#24 13 balls (5%)
#23 10 balls (4%)
#22 7 balls (2.8%)
#21 5 balls (2%)
#20 4 balls (1.6%)
#19 3 balls (1.2%)
#18 2 balls (0.8%)
#17 1 ball (0.4%)
So, I disagree that bad teams would get stuck at the bottom. It would just make late season games by non-contenders more interesting.
I don't think you understood what he was saying. He was referring to the OP's draft change idea. Saying that a team that finishes 15th needs a higher pick than a team that finishes 9th.
You missed the boat.
Not what I said at all. The 15th place team gets a whopping 1 ball out of 250. Three chances to get a top 3 spot. After the top 3 spots, picks 4-15 are based on the standings, worst to best.
I don't think you understood what he was saying. He was referring to the OP's draft change idea. Saying that a team that finishes 15th needs a higher pick than a team that finishes 9th.
You missed the boat.
Oh I guess I did, silly me
In that case, I disagree with that notion. I'm a huge opponent against tanking, even during the 09-10 season, I never cheered for the oilers to lose games, but they did anyways and drafted taylor hall.
I think teams that were horrible and finished last should have a shot at picking first overall and the worse you do, the better the odds. The draft lottery system is fine the way it is.
They used to not have a lottery at all and Pittsburgh tanked to get Lemieux IIRC. The lottery is ok as is except they should show the balls being picked live.
Not what I said at all. The 15th place team gets a whopping 1 ball out of 250. Three chances to get a top 3 spot. After the top 3 spots, picks 4-15 are based on the standings, worst to best.
And you don't understand either. He was replying to T-Funk's post not yours.
You missed the boat too, its rather lonely on here.
They used to not have a lottery at all and Pittsburgh tanked to get Lemieux IIRC. The lottery is ok as is except they should show the balls being picked live.
In that case, I disagree with that notion. I'm a huge opponent against tanking, even during the 09-10 season, I never cheered for the oilers to lose games, but they did anyways and drafted taylor hall.
I think teams that were horrible and finished last should have a shot at picking first overall and the worse you do, the better the odds. The draft lottery system is fine the way it is.
Yeah I agree. I would probably change it a bit though. Right now a team who finishes last with 60 points has a 50% (roughly) chance of getting the first over all pick. A team who finishes with 60 points but ends up in 29th due to the tiebreaker has like a 18% chance of drafting first even though they both had the same amount of points.
I think they should figure out a system that gives you a certain percentage to pick first depending on how many points you got correlated to the playoff cut off line.
Yeah I agree. I would probably change it a bit though. Right now a team who finishes last with 60 points has a 50% (roughly) chance of getting the first over all pick. A team who finishes with 60 points but ends up in 29th due to the tiebreaker has like a 18% chance of drafting first even though they both had the same amount of points.
I think they should figure out a system that gives you a certain percentage to pick first depending on how many points you got correlated to the playoff cut off line.
I think that would make the problem worse. If teams needed to get further away from the playoff cutoff line to increase their chance of getting the 1st overall pick, they are more likely to lose on purpose.
I think that would make the problem worse. If teams needed to get further away from the playoff cutoff line to increase their chance of getting the 1st overall pick, they are more likely to lose on purpose.
Is there actually a problem though? What teams are losing on purpose? The Bluejackets are just terrible, they deserve to be way in the basement. But in the off season last year they made moves that were supposed to make them better and help the make the playoffs.
montreal has had a terrible season but I wouldn't say that they were trying to lose. Same with the Oilers. Islanders are slowly improving and Toronto was looking like a playoff team until they fell apart.
Sure my idea might affect columbus, they might try to get as few points as possible to pull away from the rest of the pack, but they don't even have to try to do that, it just happens because they are that bad. The rest of the teams are so close that it wouldn't make much of a difference at all, a couple points would barely effect your draft lottery percentages.
And even with my idea where each non playoff team could end up drafting first it is highly unlikely, but it is likely that a team who finishes 29-25 could draft first. I haven't actually drawn it out though.
OP, Did it cross your mind at all that the Oilers were playing a team that was to challenge for the West division title? A team that has underachieved by general consensus and is now playing for their playoff lives... As opposed to a team just playing out the season. I hate losing as much as anyone but do you expect the Oilers to win 82 games at some point? I don't. I don't have any issue with the effort a very short staffed Oilers team played last night. To suggest they tanked delibertly is absurd.
Your post is based on a false premise that the teams purposely tank, which players would never do. Since it's built based on an incorrect assumption, the rest is kinda pointless.
Agreed. It might be a topic to talk about if the original poster proved that teams were losing on purpose.
I always get a chuckle when people mention the NBA's draft system as a good idea. 2 teams having over 50% of the championships is a good idea?
There is nothing wrong with the current system. It has helped numerous teams that draft well go from bottom feeders to contenders and revitalized interest in the team and game in their cites. Every argument against the current system is an ideological one about "rewarding losing" based on the false premise that teams intentionally tank.
Last edited by s7ark: 04-03-2012 at 11:58 AM.
Reason: spelling
Columbus wouldn't be as terrible if their past drafting didn't blow and if they didn't make knee jerk reactions.
Could you imagine how they would look if they took anyone but Filatov in that draft.
Or if they still had Jake Voracek and Sean Coutourier instead of JJ.
They've made a lot of dumb decisions to get to where they are. Likewise that is pretty similar to the Oilers path. But they realyl wouldn't be as bad as they are this season if it wasn't for their trade last summer.
I think that would make the problem worse. If teams needed to get further away from the playoff cutoff line to increase their chance of getting the 1st overall pick, they are more likely to lose on purpose.
The premise is that the #1 draft pick should go to the worst team in the league, i.e. the team that needs it.
I have absolutely no problem with tanking, if the worst team gets the best player. I have a huge problem if a good team that just avoids making the playoffs gets the best draft pick - that makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm completely fine with the draft lottery as it stands, although I can OilGauge's point of tweaking the lottery based on points.
Watching this last game really depressed me. On the one hand, I should be glad the Oilers lost (better draft position), but on the other hand, I really don't like wanting the Oilers to lose.
Quite simply, tanking sucks.
I believe the biggest problem is that the way the NHL draft lottery is currently set up is the problem. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to have Hall and RNH on the roster, but watching the way the Oilers, Habs, et al. are purposely tanking is, to be honest, a disgrace to the game.
So how to fix it?
I think the NHL draft should be more like the NBA draft. Instead of only being eligible to move up 4 spots, have all top 3 picks chosen by lottery among all of the non-playoff teams. For example, pick #1 is chosen, then pick #2, then pick #3. After that, the rest of the teams pick in order of worst to least. To increase the odds of the worst team getting the first pick, increase their odds from 25% to 30% (with the way the current system is set up, the last-place team has almost a 50% shot of the first pick because teams can only move up four slots).
Personally, I think this would increase competitiveness by teams that are clearly out of the playoffs and would be good for the league.
Ideas?
I'd prefer no lottery, straight up gauranteed worst teams get best pick and so on.
But if you want some sort of anti-tank mechanism this is the worst one. Teams still have motivation to be as bad as possible to have the best CHANCE possible to get the top pick and best player. Trust me, plenty of raptor fans want more losses and a better shot at Anthony Davis.
Two ways you could do it:
Complete Randomization for non playoff teams. 1/14 chance to land on every pick in the top-14.
After you are mathematically eliminated, you need wins/points to improve your draft standing. The worst teams are eliminated earliest, therefore they have the most games remaining to earn points and move up the draft ranking. But they are still highly motivated to win.
This i doubt would do much because, management tanks, players do not, although they may mail it in.
I'd prefer no lottery or anything, worst team should get the best pick, and so on.
