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Time For Wild To Tank? No Thanks, Yeo Says

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04-03-2012, 10:20 AM
  #26
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
So what you're saying is "I acknowledge that you've fully and completely explained things in a manner completely contrary to my position. I have no way to disagree with it, so I will completely ignore it for my only other option is to reconsider my opinion, which I refuse to do."
You pick one game?

The main parts have been there. It's the minor parts that got swapped in and out.

You really think that Veilleux or Christensen or Palmer or Taffe is going to be in the long term plans?

The fact that they have finally stepped up their game at the end of the year is frustrating when they should have been doing it earlier.

Not only that, but Koivu is increasingly frustrating to say the least. Twice now he's been injured and has pretty much tanked our season because he can't stay healthy for whatever reason. Our team shouldn't rely so much on his ability to stay healthy and stay gelled.

The fact that he comes back...what? 8 games? 10 games before the season is done? Why? I mean what purpose is there for him to come back and possibly a) get injured again and b) more wear and tear on his body for next year.

There was no reason why we couldn't have shut him down for the season. The season was lost, let's try again next year and hope to God he doesn't get himself injured and tank our season next year.

BTW; good teams know how to endure or at least put up a fight when injuries start piling up. Minnesota just rolled over most nights and looked uninterested in playing.

I will always, always hate the injury excuse as the end all to why a team plays bad.

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04-03-2012, 10:23 AM
  #27
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I've said this in other threads and I will say it here. Injuries can excuse a lack of talent, but nothing can excuse a lack of effort.

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04-03-2012, 10:26 AM
  #28
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We watched the best team in hockey for ten weeks. Then we watched the worst team in hockey for twelve weeks. Now we're watching them win for two weeks.

The reward for winning is making the playoffs. They won't make the playoffs. The consolation for losing is a high draft pick. They won't get a high draft pick.

How can you guys not see that this is frustrating?

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04-03-2012, 10:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
We watched the best team in hockey for ten weeks. Then we watched the worst team in hockey for twelve weeks. Now we're watching them win for two weeks.

The reward for winning is making the playoffs. They won't make the playoffs. The consolation for losing is a high draft pick. They won't get a high draft pick.

How can you guys not see that this is frustrating?
Personally, I just don't have the energy to invest in something like that. I can't convince myself to be frustrated about this for more than two seconds at a time. It is what it is.

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04-03-2012, 10:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
How can you guys not see that this is frustrating?
I don't think anyone would say it's not frustrating. It is what it is.

I'd say the way some are handling it is the most frustrating, however. There's not a lot that we as fans can do. I just sit back and watch what plays out. Won't really ever see me stomping my feet demanding change. I'm a fan of this game and team and I guess I can enjoy facets of it even if the entire product isn't there at this point. Call me crazy but that's just my approach. I can see if/why others view things different and to each their own, I guess.

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04-03-2012, 10:37 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
We watched the best team in hockey for ten weeks. Then we watched the worst team in hockey for twelve weeks. Now we're watching them win for two weeks.

The reward for winning is making the playoffs. They won't make the playoffs. The consolation for losing is a high draft pick. They won't get a high draft pick.

How can you guys not see that this is frustrating?
No, I can see how it's frustrating. I just disagree on where the anger and blame is being directed. Also with the idea that no great players are ever selected outside of the top 5. It's funny, the two big free agents that our fanbase is salivating over right now were picked at #7 and #17.

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04-03-2012, 10:39 AM
  #32
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Huge New Blog from Russo

Good points:

Quote:
What’s Yeo supposed to say? His job is to win games, not lose them.
Exactly. I wouldn't want Yeo to say anything else. I just wanted to know what his line of thinking was when the Wild were losing game after game after game.

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One of the things I agree with Yeo on: It does just come down to quality drafting, not necessarily where you pick (see Benoit Pouliot at No. 4 in 2005).
Yes and no...sure the Wild swung and missed on Pouliot with a high pick.

But look at the Sheppard (#9) pick...before him, Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Brassard, Okposo, Mueller. Granted not all are studs, but if the Wild were picking in the top five, they'd have one of EJ, Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel. Do you think maybe that would have been better than Sheppard?

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And as I pointed out in the article, years from now, we may find out that Mikael Granlund (at 9th overall) and Jonas Brodin (at 10th) were better draft picks than some of the guys taken ahead of them.
Maybe, maybe not. One pick ahead of Brodin was Dougie Hamilton, who is 6'4, put up 1.5 PPG in juniors, and is just a complete stud. Two picks ahead was Couturier, who would have been a top line player for the Wild most of the year.

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The Wild absolutely blew SIX consecutive first-round picks.
And how many of those were top five picks? One. It's a lot easier to hit earlier in the draft.

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The idea of tanking is impossible.
Yes. Which is why you never actually tank, you just suck.

But I'm not upset the Wild are "tanking" or "not tanking", it's that they suck all year and then turn it on at the end.

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Frankly, the Wild’s improved play of late, I think, proves just how big of a loss Mikko Koivu was. That’s why it’s incumbent on GM Chuck Fletcher to fix this problem. It’s inexcusable that the Wild annually is a Mikko Koivu injury away from disaster.
And that's why this season is on Fletcher. Not injuries, Fletcher. He didn't have enough depth for the team, even when they looked like they were good enough to get a playoff spot. He didn't make the moves necessary. He was content to let them lose and alienate the fans yet again.

Can he draft? Sure. Can he put together an NHL team? So far, no.

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04-03-2012, 10:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Yeah I get the "winning culture" thing. Yeah I get how important it is, but this bunch of losers waits until NOW to finally remember how to play Yeo's system? They wait until NOW to start playing with heart and toughness? Yeo says it's something special to stick around and keep playing after being eliminated. I say at least half of the players are playing this good because finally the pressure to produce is finally off and this garbage time feels like vacation time. Bunch of lazy slackers. And the other half is only playing this good because they know it's their job on the line.
Honestly, there was a point where I worried that Yeo had lost control of the team. Like, permanently. I am very happy to see that he has turned it around, even if it took far too long this time. This gives me far more hope for next year than one more, slightly bluer-chip prospect who's still a year or two off from making an impact in the NHL.

I want this club to win every game, every season, and in every scenario. I want this to be a team that sets that standard for itself. I think they have a real shot at being pretty dramatically better next year, too.

Also interesting that nobody has mentioned the quips about free agency. He's right though... We may not be New York, but we're still way, way higher on most free agents' lists than Edmonton or Long Island, no matter how much top talent they may have in the system.

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04-03-2012, 10:48 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
And that's why this season is on Fletcher. Not injuries, Fletcher. He didn't have enough depth for the team, even when they looked like they were good enough to get a playoff spot. He didn't make the moves necessary. He was content to let them lose and alienate the fans yet again.

Can he draft? Sure. Can he put together an NHL team? So far, no.
And this where I will continue to be a Fletcher apologist. He took over a team that got almost nothing from 4 straight drafts. I think Clutterbuck, Stoner, Falk, Kassian and Almond, and that's it.

It's not easy building a team when you have no talent between the ages of 21 and 24. You build around those players, not in spite of their failures. Thelen, Sheppard, Pouliot, Gillies and Cuma (not his fault, as he was injured) should all be on this team in some shape or form and contributing. That's a 2nd line center, a top 6 winger, a 3rd liner and 2 top 4 defensemen that we had to replace via free agency. That's not easy. That's why Latendresse's concussion problems sucks so bad, because he almost (and still might) rectify one of those mistakes.

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04-03-2012, 10:55 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
No, I can see how it's frustrating. I just disagree on where the anger and blame is being directed. Also with the idea that no great players are ever selected outside of the top 5. It's funny, the two big free agents that our fanbase is salivating over right now were picked at #7 and #17.
i'm directing it at the players...

BTW that draft where those free agents came from? One of the deepest in NHL history.

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04-03-2012, 10:57 AM
  #36
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I know this might just sound like utter nonsense to some, but I agree. The biggest problem with the Wild for the past few years is there just hasn't been any signs of a winning culture.

Having a winning mentality from the prospect ranks, to the Aeros, to the Wild, is a huge part of developing players.

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04-03-2012, 10:58 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Honestly, there was a point where I worried that Yeo had lost control of the team. Like, permanently. I am very happy to see that he has turned it around, even if it took far too long this time. This gives me far more hope for next year than one more, slightly bluer-chip prospect who's still a year or two off from making an impact in the NHL.

I want this club to win every game, every season, and in every scenario. I want this to be a team that sets that standard for itself. I think they have a real shot at being pretty dramatically better next year, too.

Also interesting that nobody has mentioned the quips about free agency. He's right though... We may not be New York, but we're still way, way higher on most free agents' lists than Edmonton or Long Island, no matter how much top talent they may have in the system.
The problem I have is the timing for when the turnaround happened. Coincided with being eliminated too perfectly for me to not give it at least an asterisk. That asterisk of course representing the lack of pressure now that the Wild are eliminated, and the fact that players like Christensen are now playing for their jobs. I would be much more enthusiastic about the turnaround if it came when there was still real pressure to win. I sure as hell hope this means that Yeo has finally regained control of the team, but I am too much of a cynic to buy into it completely.

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04-03-2012, 10:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
i'm directing it at the players...
My point.

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BTW that draft where those free agents came from? One of the deepest in NHL history.
Maybe this one will turn out to be another one. I didn't follow the drafts back then, was it said be one of the best drafts before it occured?

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04-03-2012, 10:58 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I know this might just sound like utter nonsense to some, but I agree. The biggest problem with the Wild for the past few years is there just hasn't been any signs of a winning culture.

Having a winning mentality from the prospect ranks, to the Aeros, to the Wild, is a huge part of developing players.
The only problem is that the winning mentality was not evident at all when it mattered.

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04-03-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
The only problem is that the winning mentality was not evident at all when it mattered.
True. But I don't think the right approach to fix that is to start tanking. That just can't be the way to go about things.

Just my opinion

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04-03-2012, 11:00 AM
  #41
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round and round. now we're back to "what move could have he made" that would have made any substantial difference in the team with or without Koivu. Who was available? For what? No one wants him to trade draft picks or any of our better prospects, and if we were going to pry away someone that valuable from someone our targets and trading partners would be limited to those who thought they had little chance at the post season and have weak prospect pools. How many teams was that? Who of star quality was on those teams?

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04-03-2012, 11:01 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
My point.
Is?

Quote:
Maybe this one will turn out to be another one. I didn't follow the drafts back then, was it said be one of the best drafts before it occured?
Yes. It was an extremely deep draft and people were salivating over the prospects.

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04-03-2012, 11:02 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Is?
That, in my opinion, blaming the players is moronic.

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04-03-2012, 11:04 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
That, in my opinion, blaming the players is moronic.
Why?

Yeo and Fletcher did everything possible to get this team going again and the players' didn't respond. the responsibility is on the players.

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04-03-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Why?

Yeo and Fletcher did everything possible to get this team going again and the players' didn't respond. the responsibility is on the players.
"I'm mad at my team for playing hard." I don't agree with it.

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04-03-2012, 11:06 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
That, in my opinion, blaming the players is moronic.
Why? When it all comes down to it, it is the players effort and attitude that determine how each and every team finishes each year.

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04-03-2012, 11:07 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
"I'm mad at my team for playing hard." I don't agree with it.
For sure. I think what most people are mad about is that the team DIDN'T play hard for months.. and now they are.

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04-03-2012, 11:09 AM
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It's all karma. Where di we draft when we selected Granlund? 9th. You ALWAYS try to win no matter your position in the standings or the time of the year. "But Buddy, where was the trying in December and January?" You don't think the players were trying? I guarantee they were. Have you guys ever played against competition that was (much) better than you? I have, it's not lack of trying but more the game moves faster than your accustomed to. Not only that but it's a trickle effect with talent.

So our bottom line was mostly AHLers, so Yeo tries to limit their exposure. That means more time for the top 3 lines. But wait because your 4th line moved up to the third line, that means their playing against better competition. So you either play them against players that have a good chance to score against them or you limit their time... So and and so forth. At some point the team is going to break. All the effort in the world is not going to make up for a large enough gap in talent.

Things will always work themselves out for the best.

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04-03-2012, 11:10 AM
  #49
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For sure. I think what most people are mad about is that the team DIDN'T play hard for months.. and now they are.
And I disagree with that also. I think they were outplayed for months, with spots of lack of effort, but I attribute a lot of that to injuries. People can say that it's an excuse, and that's fine, I consider it a reason. It's probably one of many possible reasons for the decline.

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04-03-2012, 11:12 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
"I'm mad at my team for playing hard." I don't agree with it.
Maybe I should clarify then. I am not mad at my team simply for playing hard.

I am mad at my team for playing hard RIGHT NOW, which in my mind makes it about effort and mindset, which was completely lacking during the collapse.

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