I'd prefer no lottery, straight up gauranteed worst teams get best pick and so on.
But if you want some sort of anti-tank mechanism this is the worst one. Teams still have motivation to be as bad as possible to have the best CHANCE possible to get the top pick and best player. Trust me, plenty of raptor fans want more losses and a better shot at Anthony Davis.
Two ways you could do it:
Complete Randomization for non playoff teams. 1/14 chance to land on every pick in the top-14.
After you are mathematically eliminated, you need wins/points to improve your draft standing. The worst teams are eliminated earliest, therefore they have the most games remaining to earn points and move up the draft ranking. But they are still highly motivated to win.
This i doubt would do much because, management tanks, players do not, although they may mail it in.
I'd prefer no lottery or anything, worst team should get the best pick, and so on.
good post...very true about how mgmt. tanks and not the players.
give some specific examples of how management tanks...... and go!
Coaching and mgmt. put the pieces in motion...ie. whether to play Barker and Sutton for 20mins/game or not. They decide whether to sign or pass on help at the trade deadline. Surely you already know how mgmt/coaching factor into the game or did I blow your mind.
Your post is based on a false premise that the teams purposely tank, which players would never do. Since it's built based on an incorrect assumption, the rest is kinda pointless.
Agreed. Players don't tank. They may not have the motivation to give er, but they don't lose on purpose.
I always get a chuckle when people mention the NBA's draft system as a good idea. 2 teams having over 50% of the championships is a good idea?
There is nothing wrong with the current system. It has helped numerous teams that draft well go from bottom feeders to contenders and revitalized interest in the team and game in their cites. Every argument against the current system is an ideological one about "rewarding losing" based on the false premise that teams intentionally tank.
Umm... the NBA's draft system isn't the problem. The problem is the fact that an entire roster in the NBA is 12 players (as opposed to 23 players), 5 of which play over half the game (stars in excess of 40/48 minutes).
A lot of teams only really run 8 man rotations, the other 4 are really only there in case of injury. If you have 2 superstars that are going to play 40 minutes and a solid supporting cast, you're not going to lose that often. In hockey, aside from the goalie and the odd stud defenceman that plays ~30 minutes/game, the rest of the players play anywhere from 8 to 20 minutes, and almost everyone on the roster plays in any given game. Thus, two hockey players do not make a roster.
And that's not even mentioning their flawed cap system that has loopholes galore (which is why all of the big names move via sign-and-trade). Before the cap was instituted in the NHL, how often did a team not named the Dallas Stars, Detroit Redwings, New Jersey Devils or Colorado Avalanche win a championship in the previous decade? That's right, a grand, whopping total of once (Tampa Bay).
And to anybody that thinks that management isn't tanking - Do you think Smid and Petry would be playing if a playoff spot were on the line? How about Price in Montreal? And who is playing net in Toronto at the moment?
Yeah, none of those teams are tanking.
As to the poster that said that the 15th worst team is going to start tanking to get a better playoff spot - Do you really think, while there is a chance at millions of dollars in playoff revenue, that a team is going to mail it in while there is still a chance?
As far as a complete randomization of the bottom teams, doesn't that defeat the purpose of helping the worst team out?
Umm... the NBA's draft system isn't the problem. The problem is the fact that an entire roster in the NBA is 12 players (as opposed to 23 players), 5 of which play over half the game (stars in excess of 40/48 minutes).
A lot of teams only really run 8 man rotations, the other 4 are really only there in case of injury. If you have 2 superstars that are going to play 40 minutes and a solid supporting cast, you're not going to lose that often. In hockey, aside from the goalie and the odd stud defenceman that plays ~30 minutes/game, the rest of the players play anywhere from 8 to 20 minutes, and almost everyone on the roster plays in any given game. Thus, two hockey players do not make a roster.
And that's not even mentioning their flawed cap system that has loopholes galore (which is why all of the big names move via sign-and-trade). Before the cap was instituted in the NHL, how often did a team not named the Dallas Stars, Detroit Redwings, New Jersey Devils or Colorado Avalanche win a championship in the previous decade? That's right, a grand, whopping total of once (Tampa Bay).
And to anybody that thinks that management isn't tanking - Do you think Smid and Petry would be playing if a playoff spot were on the line? How about Price in Montreal? And who is playing net in Toronto at the moment?
Yeah, none of those teams are tanking.
Even if the NBA draft system isn't the problem, it certainly isn't a solution for introducing parity into a league. The NBA has the least amount of parity of the north american sports leagues. So their draft system obviously isn't a good means of helping bad franchises.
All you are doing when you suggest that there should be a lottery for the top 3 picks is lessening the chances that the really bad teams that need the most help, get the picks. The downside to that idea is that you are increasing the chances that more teams will end up in the Columbus situation for being bad forever with fans tuning out until the team moves. Which hurts the league and revenues as a whole.
And for what? To try and make the last handful of games a tiny bit more meaningful? Why? Should a team really feel proud that they finished the season in 22nd spot in stead of 25th? No, neither result is acceptable.
As to whether Smid, Petry, or Price would be playing right now in a playoff race? Neither of us know the true extent of the injuries so to suggest that they are faking their injuries with no evidence to support that is unfair. If the Oilers are tanking, why are Dubnyk, RNH and Eberle playing? No better way to ensure we lose than to take our only scoring options off the table or to play Khabby.
Coaching and mgmt. put the pieces in motion...ie. whether to play Barker and Sutton for 20mins/game or not. They decide whether to sign or pass on help at the trade deadline. Surely you already know how mgmt/coaching factor into the game or did I blow your mind.
The players were in place before the season. Are you suggesting teams go into a season with the plan to throw the year away for the purpose of a high draft pick? The trade deadline comment is somewhat reasonable but do you expect a team like the Oilers to go into trade deadline day saying geeez, I wonder if we can trade Hall for some guy that is at the peak of his career right now so we can be better right now? Sometimes we just have to acknowledge that the 29th place team was beaten in a critical game by a more skilled team that is fighting for their playoff lives and be more responsible in our comments about management delibertly tanking.
The players were in place before the season. Are you suggesting teams go into a season with the plan to throw the year away for the purpose of a high draft pick? The trade deadline comment is somewhat reasonable but do you expect a team like the Oilers to go into trade deadline day saying geeez, I wonder if we can trade Hall for some guy that is at the peak of his career right now so we can be better right now? Sometimes we just have to acknowledge that the 29th place team was beaten in a critical game by a more skilled team that is fighting for their playoff lives and be more responsible in our comments about management delibertly tanking.
Follow the thread back...all I suggested is that I don't believe professional players have it in them to tank. And any tanking can quite easily be accomplished through the front office. Do you honestly believe the Oilers are pulling out all the stops to win hockey games right now or Mtl, compared to say Dallas or Colorado. Oiler fans have been deprived of meaningful hockey for so long that we wouldn't recognize it. I'm not saying they're not trying, I'm saying they are playing without consequence, it doesn't matter if they win or lose. It tends to lower the compete level.
I wouldn't change the draft lottery format. The worst teams should have the highest chance of drafting players that may help them "someday" get back to some form of respectability.
Losing and being a crappy team at the bottom of the standings is big enough punishment as it is. You have to throw those teams a bone and allow them some way to help crawl out of the gutter because obviously their managament and overall team skill levels aren't able to do it.
Yes it's a welfare system but it also is a neccesity to have healthy teams with fanbases that actually give a crap and don't tune out year after year because of perpetual losing seasons. We already have that with some teams as it is and it only leads to league instability and more relocations... not a good thing for a healthy league.
Honestly I'd be saying the same thing if the Oilers were a playoff team or a lotto team.
Teams like Columbus and NYI need help as well... all those perennial bottom teams need some hope in the form of decent draft picks to help improve their situations.
Follow the thread back...all I suggested is that I don't believe professional players have it in them to tank. And any tanking can quite easily be accomplished through the front office. Do you honestly believe the Oilers are pulling out all the stops to win hockey games right now or Mtl, compared to say Dallas or Colorado. Oiler fans have been deprived of meaningful hockey for so long that we wouldn't recognize it. I'm not saying they're not trying, I'm saying they are playing without consequence, it doesn't matter if they win or lose. It tends to lower the compete level.
It sounds like Renney missed the front office memo that the team was supposed to lose when he made his comments and was clearly upset with LA having an unfair advantage because of poor officiating. If the objective is to lose or tank games wouldn't it be mission accomplished and Renney wouldn't have let loose all the frustration of one sided officiating in front of the media? Renney was probed on the reffing issue weeks ago and was able to contain his thoughts when Terry Jones (I believe anyways) was pressing the issue. Renney simply told Jones not to lead him down the path. Don't kid yourself, no one on this team has entered a season with the intention of losing games at any point. Losing is the result of a team decimated with injuries, a team that is young and developing and a team that, as you say, has " been deprived of meaningful hockey for so long that we wouldn't recognize it." The organization at no time and at no level has contemplated tanking for the purpose of better draft picks. Did Pittsburgh's management do the same during their rebuild? Did Chicago's? I seriously have my doubts. It's just something that happens to bad teams... Do you think in Calgary right now they are sitting down discussing how to lose more games next year so they could draft McKinnion? Doubt it. Maybe the means to rising from mediocrity to an elite team involves trading Iggy, trading Kipper and so on. That's not tanking, it's acknowledging that you are spinning your wheels or as Feaster would say, "wandering in the desert" (LMAO) and making long term decisions that will result in an improved team that competes for cups and not playoff spots.
Last edited by judge301: 04-05-2012 at 08:31 PM.
Reason: added comment
Your post is based on a false premise that the teams purposely tank, which players would never do. Since it's built based on an incorrect assumption, the rest is kinda pointless.
Yeah, no one ever cheats, except that kid next to me in Math 506.
The trade deadline comment is somewhat reasonable but do you expect a team like the Oilers to go into trade deadline day saying geeez, I wonder if we can trade Hall for some guy that is at the peak of his career right now so we can be better right now? Sometimes we just have to acknowledge that the 29th place team was beaten in a critical game by a more skilled team that is fighting for their playoff lives and be more responsible in our comments about management delibertly tanking.
