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Old
04-03-2012, 05:35 PM
  #1
Face Wash
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More Fun Fact: Something To Watch For Thurs & Sat

The Kings have scored 181 goals (not counting the 6 "goals" they get for winning 6 shootouts this season).

The fewest goals scored by a playoff team in an 84- or 82-game season since '92-'93 (when the NHL expanded to 24 teams) is 191 by STL in '03-'04.

So, if the Kings don't score more than 10 goals vs. SJ the next two games and still make the playoffs they'll be the worst offensive team in 19 years to make the playoffs. (note: Kings have scored 9 goals over a two-game stretch a few times this season, but never 10 goals in 2 games)

A case can be made if you go back further that this is the worst offensive team in modern NHL history to make the playoffs, but I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples at that point since the league's talent wasn't spread out over as many franchises. That and other factors lead to a high scoring league where even the league worst teams scored 230 goals minimum, but I digress!

GKG!!!

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04-03-2012, 06:08 PM
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KINGS17
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After the trade deadline this topic still lives?

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04-03-2012, 06:24 PM
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Face Wash
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how much has it really changed overall? Offense is better, but they're the 2nd worst offensive team in the league and the cast of characters is pretty much the same. Wasn't like the team underwent a makeover on deadline day.

Also, makes a very good point for Quick winning the Vezina. Worst offensive team in history ever to make the playoffs says a lot for the goalie.

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04-03-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
how much has it really changed overall? Offense is better, but they're the 2nd worst offensive team in the league and the cast of characters is pretty much the same. Wasn't like the team underwent a makeover on deadline day.

Also, makes a very good point for Quick winning the Vezina. Worst offensive team in history ever to make the playoffs says a lot for the goalie.
I dunno, why don't you rank the offenses of the teams after the deadline, that will tell you something. Pretty sure that the Kings are in the top half of the league offensively after the deadline.

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04-03-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
how much has it really changed overall?
Hrmmmm Guess you didn't watch the game on TV last night where Bob Miller & Jim Fox discussed just HOW MUCH it has changed since Sutter & the Trade Deadline ... Kings going from the 29th/30th {WORST} Offense in NHL prior, to 3rd {BEST} Offense Production since Sutter took over and we aquired Carter.

So there's something to be said for GETTING HOT at JUST the right time ...
2nd best Deffence coupled with the 3rd Best Offense in recent weeks ... FEAR US !

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I dunno, why don't you rank the offenses of the teams after the deadline, that will tell you something. Pretty sure that the Kings are in the top half of the league offensively after the deadline.
I wish I could pull up the TV Graphic or post a video link of it ... but as I mentioned above, Bob Miller said "since the Deadline" ONLY the Penguins and 1 other team (forget which ?) had a better Goals Per Game average than the KINGS.

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04-03-2012, 07:34 PM
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I agree pucku and hope I don't get further chastised for sharing my opinion on the subject but this team made a very significant change during the season which in my opinion has to be considered when throwing numbers around to support one aspect of the teams terrible chances of succeeding.

We not only have added a new coach who has changed the system that lead us to being the lowest scoring team in NHL history or whatever the matter might be but we have also added one significantly talented upgrade to our top 6 in Carter but have also made additional improvements to our D in Voynov and our bottom 6 in King and Nolan.

If this team had remained static then the stats might have some merit but since we have changed ourselves so drastically I don't see it but at any rate, they are interesting things to consider and at least we know who we would have been if TM had remained at the helm.

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04-03-2012, 07:42 PM
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i dont think this stat was brought up to show how bad they are offensively. just how bizzarre that from where they were to now having a chance to win the division in 20+ years.

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04-03-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I agree pucku and hope I don't get further chastised for sharing my opinion on the subject but this team made a very significant change during the season which in my opinion has to be considered when throwing numbers around to support one aspect of the teams terrible chances of succeeding.

We not only have added a new coach who has changed the system that lead us to being the lowest scoring team in NHL history or whatever the matter might be but we have also added one significantly talented upgrade to our top 6 in Carter but have also made additional improvements to our D in Voynov and our bottom 6 in King and Nolan.

If this team had remained static then the stats might have some merit but since we have changed ourselves so drastically I don't see it but at any rate, they are interesting things to consider and at least we know who we would have been if TM had remained at the helm.
But you know that Lombardi guy never takes any risks. I am sure now that someone will point out that he had to do something to save his job. Like that's a negative?

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04-03-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i dont think this stat was brought up to show how bad they are offensively. just how bizzarre that from where they were to now having a chance to win the division in 20+ years.
I guess YOU missed Face Wash's "Simple Stats Easy To Understand: Don't Paint A Pretty Picture" LINK which he's rehashing here ...

Quote:
... blah blah blah ... This is for all you "Calm Downers" out there ...
blah blah blah ... only 2 teams in the bottom 5 of the league offensively EVEN MADE THE PLAYOFFS (1996 Blues & 1998 Senators). Neither of which was DEAD LAST in offense ... like the Kings are! ... blah blah blah ... The chances the Kings even make the playoffs with this offense are atrocious.
Guess the fact that the Kings are in 3rd with 2 games left in the season and a very good chance at winning a division title aren't good enough for some ?

We need to win by MORE GOALS dammit !

EDIT ... MIND YOU ... I'm not trying to jump down on Face Wash ... I just think this team dynamic HAS changed enough to make his "FUN FACT w/ STATS" a little outdated, but since the sample size isn't large enough to effect the over-all standings of a full 82 game season, the change hasn't lifted us beyond being 28th at best in GPG on the NHL stat page.


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Old
04-03-2012, 08:19 PM
  #10
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Can we all agree that terry murray's "offense" sucked? Can we all agree that the kings no longer play terry Murray's "offense"? If so, then we can throw away most of the season's offensive stats.

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04-04-2012, 01:28 AM
  #11
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Guys, if the Kings changed their system to score goals they'd be giving up a lot more goals and they're not. The system was tweaked somewhat to allow our defensemen to be more involved. Kings hold the puck longer, move the puck quicker and turn it over less. The line combos changed/were solidified once Carter got here, which is the biggest impact Carter has made, because offensively, his results have been no great shakes. He's had 6 goals in 16 games (not horrible at all - 30 goal pace), 2 of which though were empty netters and he had a 2-goal game which is great, but all that means is he's scored meaningful goals in 3 of the 16 games he's played in LA. Not all that impressive.

I like the guy, don't get me wrong, he has an all around game and I think he will eventually be a huge player for the Kings. But the Kings benefited far more from Sutter loosening the reigns on the defense and from DB's name being floated around in trade rumors than anything Carter has done.

Kings are a hot team, no doubt, but they were so bad for 61 games all their late season hot goal scoring ways wasn't going to change the overall much. They need 1 point and fewer than 10 goals in their last 2 games to be the worst scoring team in NHL history to make the playoffs, and again, they can thank JQ32 for this.

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04-04-2012, 01:38 AM
  #12
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The Kings are trolling.

Worst offensive team in history AND WE WIN YOUR DIVISIONS!! WE WIN ALL THE DIVISIONS!!!!!

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04-04-2012, 09:01 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Guys, if the Kings changed their system to score goals they'd be giving up a lot more goals and they're not. The system was tweaked somewhat to allow our defensemen to be more involved. Kings hold the puck longer, move the puck quicker and turn it over less. The line combos changed/were solidified once Carter got here, which is the biggest impact Carter has made, because offensively, his results have been no great shakes. He's had 6 goals in 16 games (not horrible at all - 30 goal pace), 2 of which though were empty netters and he had a 2-goal game which is great, but all that means is he's scored meaningful goals in 3 of the 16 games he's played in LA. Not all that impressive.

I like the guy, don't get me wrong, he has an all around game and I think he will eventually be a huge player for the Kings. But the Kings benefited far more from Sutter loosening the reigns on the defense and from DB's name being floated around in trade rumors than anything Carter has done.

Kings are a hot team, no doubt, but they were so bad for 61 games all their late season hot goal scoring ways wasn't going to change the overall much. They need 1 point and fewer than 10 goals in their last 2 games to be the worst scoring team in NHL history to make the playoffs, and again, they can thank JQ32 for this.
That is wildly speculative and not completely true. It is possible to vastly improve one aspect of your teams play without sacrificing another. The Kings have been playing amazing D all season long (if not over the past two seasons or so) and as such might have it down well enough to where finally opening up their offence hasn't any real impact on their D play.

What we have been seeing is a coach who actually develops his system as he goes along and then implements it. TM held everyone but himself accountable for what was happening and Sutter is more of an actual coach who preaches balance.

We will see how well DS does as our coach after he has had a full season behind the helm but imo he is more than competent enough to restore one aspect of our game without destroying or even weakening another.

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04-04-2012, 09:58 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
The Kings are trolling.

Worst offensive team in history AND WE WIN YOUR DIVISIONS!! WE WIN ALL THE DIVISIONS!!!!!
This made me LOL. Thanks.

Face Wash, wow man. Some of your comments in this thread are pretty bad. I mean first off, I thought we wouldn't even make the playoffs according to you? You've been ranting for a while about how bad our offense is, yet here we are, two games left in the season, in the drivers to win the division. Not make the playoffs, but win the division. Why do you think that is?

Like others have pointed out, it's because we don't have the worst offense around anymore. And while your stats show we are pretty bad in terms of a full season, in reality we are much better now than we were for the first half of the season. Our team has a new coach, we've added a different element on the back end in Voynov, we've picked up a solid forward in Carter, we've dumped some dead weight pieces in Moreau and Hunter for more skilled and larger bodied players in King and Nolan.

The team you see now is NOT the team that played under Murray. The reason we have such poor goal totals is largely the result of the time under TM this season, as well as the initial stretch under Sutter. Like others have said, we have one of the best offenses since the trade deadline.

Also, to assume that our system hasn't changed simply because it would mean we'd have to give up more goals is completely false. You can adjust a system to get more of one thing (offense) without sacrificing the other (defense).

Here's some simple stats for you regarding goal scoring and our coaches (shootout goals were not counted):

Under Terry Murray: 13-12-4, 64 goals for, 65 goals against.
Under Darryl Sutter: 25-13-9, 111 goals for, 83 goals against.

Under TM, we scored an average of 2.21 goals per game, which would have us at 29th in the league. We allowed 2.24 goals per game, which would have us ranked 3rd.

Under Darryl Sutter, we are scoring an average of 2.36 goals per game, which would have ranked us 27th. We allowed 1.77 goals per game though, which is drastically better and would have had us as the best defensive team in the NHL. Our offense has gone up .15 goals per game, while our defense has reduced our goals against by an average of .47 goals per game. Obviously, you can improve your offense without sacrificing D.

If you look at since the trade deadline, which would allow for the use of the current roster we see on the ice and the one which we will (hopefully) reach the playoffs with, we have a record of 12-4-1 and have scored 51 goals while allowing 32 goals against. That's an average of 3.00 goals per game scored, which would have us tied for 4th best offense in the league over a full season, while allowing just 1.88 goals per game, which would have us sitting 2nd best overall in the league, just a smidge behind St. Louis.

Essentially Face Wash, think of it this way. If you had an average of 50% on all your tests in Grade 9, but are now averaging 95% in Grade 12, is it fair to say you should be looked at like a student who pulls in around a 72% mark (which would be your average) or an honors student with 95%?

You are burdening this team with useless stats from before that have no bearing on anything at this point in the season and are not at all reflective of the team that we have been watching recently. We may have averaged the 29th best offense in the regular season, but right now we are MUCH better than that. What happened in October doesn't matter to anyone but stats junkies like me. To the players on the bench, that's all ancient history because right now, they are playing much better, and should be acknowledged as such. They've improved as the season has gone along, admit it.

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Old
04-04-2012, 10:12 AM
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kingsfan: Excellent summation. I think you nailed it point for point there. I'm not surprised the goals for hasn't improved drastically overall under Sutter (.15, as you note) since they still struggled to score as they adapted to him and as he implemented more and more changes to the team's system. However, as you mentioned, there is a noticeable difference over the last 5 weeks.

I honestly don't think it could have been broken down better than you did here. Nice work.

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04-04-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Guys, if the Kings changed their system to score goals they'd be giving up a lot more goals and they're not. The system was tweaked somewhat to allow our defensemen to be more involved. Kings hold the puck longer, move the puck quicker and turn it over less. The line combos changed/were solidified once Carter got here, which is the biggest impact Carter has made, because offensively, his results have been no great shakes. He's had 6 goals in 16 games (not horrible at all - 30 goal pace), 2 of which though were empty netters and he had a 2-goal game which is great, but all that means is he's scored meaningful goals in 3 of the 16 games he's played in LA. Not all that impressive.

I like the guy, don't get me wrong, he has an all around game and I think he will eventually be a huge player for the Kings. But the Kings benefited far more from Sutter loosening the reigns on the defense and from DB's name being floated around in trade rumors than anything Carter has done.

Kings are a hot team, no doubt, but they were so bad for 61 games all their late season hot goal scoring ways wasn't going to change the overall much. They need 1 point and fewer than 10 goals in their last 2 games to be the worst scoring team in NHL history to make the playoffs, and again, they can thank JQ32 for this.
You're not putting enough stock into what a guy like Carter does to the opposing team. Even if he doesn't score, the other team is always aware of him and they can't just think about shutting down 1 line. Hes also done things that don't show on a scoreboard, like catching up to Richie for the 2 on 1 that led to Richie getting the SHG. If he hadn't have hustled it would have been a one on one instead of a 2 on 1. And by Richie I mean Richards, not Richardson, old habits die hard!

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04-04-2012, 11:49 AM
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kingsfan


Nicely done.

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04-04-2012, 11:58 AM
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I think Sutter has gradually changed the system. When he first arrived he didn't change much. Then he asked the defensemen to become more active. After that he criticized Kopitar for not getting to the middle of the ice enough. He made sure King and Nolan were in the lineup every night to add some speed and forecheck that the team wasn't getting from Hunter and others. Now you see him in the process of implementing a much more aggressive forecheck, sending two forwards in deep.

Completely different mindset when playing with a lead as well. The Kings are always on the attack trying to put teams away.

Good coach.

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04-04-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
The Kings are trolling.

Worst offensive team in history AND WE WIN YOUR DIVISIONS!! WE WIN ALL THE DIVISIONS!!!!!
There's only one way to win all the divisions and it involves lifting a big shiny silver cup in June.

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04-04-2012, 12:30 PM
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There's only one way to win all the divisions and it involves lifting a big shiny silver cup in June.
All your big silver thingies are belong to us!

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04-04-2012, 01:11 PM
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I dunno, why don't you rank the offenses of the teams after the deadline, that will tell you something. Pretty sure that the Kings are in the top half of the league offensively after the deadline.
True, but we are where we are in the standings becuase of how we played all year long. Not like the playoff seating is based on performance since the lock out.
THere is no doubt that are numbers are improved but the fact we are in despite the poor offensive performance before the deadline is remarkable. Thank you Quick.

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04-04-2012, 03:21 PM
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Thank you Quick.
And thank you Dean Lombardi.

I was all for moving him down the road due to the way he stuck with Murray so long and even then talked as if the players forced his hand. But when he did make changes they were spot on: Sutter, Nolan, King, Carter and Voynov/Johnson.

Credit where credit is due.


Last edited by Dropdapuck: 04-04-2012 at 03:22 PM. Reason: added Voynov/Johnson
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04-04-2012, 04:29 PM
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wow... some of you people... just, wow!

You guys actually think I haven't noticed the increase in goal scoring over the last 19 since LAK landed Carter?

Earlier in the season, I said, this team either figures out a way to score goals or it's done. No team has ever made the playoffs from the cellar as far as G/G. They did! My point was and always has been if the Kings are going to make the playoffs, they were going to wind up being one of the worst offensive teams overall to do it in NHL History because of how awful they were the first 3/4 of the season. I realize things are a lot different right now, but assuming they get in, they're also getting in by the skin of their teeth. Why? Because they sucked ass offensively for the first 59 games of the season. If they win the division it's by virtue of being in the 2nd worst division in the NHL this season. Things have broken right for the Kings this season, but they only began to help themselves out offensively when Game #60 of 82 rolled around.

And again, my other point... If the Kings make the playoffs, Jonathan Quick deserves the Vezina. PERIOD. He is the starting goalie of the worst offensive team (STATISTICALLY SPEAKING! IT'S TRUE! YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE IT, BUT IT'S TRUE!) to make the playoffs probably in league history (among his other accomplishments this season). He deserves the award over Hank.

and after reading this thread, I deserve a drink.

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04-04-2012, 06:39 PM
  #24
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I don't agree that the Pacific is the 2nd worst division. It's the 3rd best, actually, based on quality of teams.

Avg. points per team:

1. ATL 97.8 - the best by far. 4 playoff teams.

2. CEN 92.8 - Very solid, but has the worst team in the league. 4 Playoff teams.

3. PAC 89 - One of 3 divisions that will have at least 3 playoff teams.

4. NW 87 - Vancouver is the only good team, HM to Colorado. 1 playoff team.

5. NE 85.8 - Boston is good, Ottawa has had a nice season, Buffalo, who knows what happened there. Two baddies at the bottom though. 2 playoff teams, 3 if Buffalo pulls it off.

6. SE 84.8 - Stinker of the NHL. None of the teams would make the playoffs in the west. Florida has 18 OT losses and is 22nd in the league in ROW. Washington is an Enigma. 1-2 playoff teams.


Last edited by Fishhead: 04-04-2012 at 10:35 PM.
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04-04-2012, 09:53 PM
  #25
etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
wow... some of you people... just, wow!

You guys actually think I haven't noticed the increase in goal scoring over the last 19 since LAK landed Carter?

Earlier in the season, I said, this team either figures out a way to score goals or it's done. No team has ever made the playoffs from the cellar as far as G/G. They did! My point was and always has been if the Kings are going to make the playoffs, they were going to wind up being one of the worst offensive teams overall to do it in NHL History because of how awful they were the first 3/4 of the season. I realize things are a lot different right now, but assuming they get in, they're also getting in by the skin of their teeth. Why? Because they sucked ass offensively for the first 59 games of the season. If they win the division it's by virtue of being in the 2nd worst division in the NHL this season. Things have broken right for the Kings this season, but they only began to help themselves out offensively when Game #60 of 82 rolled around.

And again, my other point... If the Kings make the playoffs, Jonathan Quick deserves the Vezina. PERIOD. He is the starting goalie of the worst offensive team (STATISTICALLY SPEAKING! IT'S TRUE! YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE IT, BUT IT'S TRUE!) to make the playoffs probably in league history (among his other accomplishments this season). He deserves the award over Hank.

and after reading this thread, I deserve a drink.

Guys, if the Kings changed their system to score goals they'd be giving up a lot more goals and they're not.

This is what you said. You have been proven to be incorrect in your assumption. I think that is sort of an important part of this whole thing. I suppose to use your own words "STATISTICALLY SPEAKING IT'S TRUE! YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT IT'S TRUE! Your assertion is that it wouldn't be impossible for us to have "changed our system to score goals" without giving up "a lot more goals".

Kingsfan showed where you are statistically incorrect. The rest is just the rest really as it pertains to your position.

I think we all deserve a drink after this.



Last edited by etherialone: 04-05-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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