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Game #80: vs San Jose, 4/03 (7:30 PM, Fox Sports Southwest, 1310 AM, 104.1 FM)

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04-03-2012, 11:22 PM
  #426
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Coaching isnt this teams problem, talent is..

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04-03-2012, 11:22 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Both Crawford and Gulutzan were not coaches who would light a fire under the team. Crawford was brought in to be that and decided to take a new passive approach. Neiwy decided to go in the wrong direction hiring a "nicer" player's coach.

This team, as constructed, needed a Tortrella or Laviollete. A hardass who would hold players accountable for their mistakes, mental laziness, and stupidity. The same problems have been going on for 3 years, and yet Niewy thought more coddling and a good player-coaching relationship would fix this team's mistakes. He failed to realize the sense of entitlement, laziness, and bad hockey IQ that has pervaded the lockerroom the past few years.

Hopefully the old core is jettisoned during the offseason and we can actually field a young roster that can feed off a player's coach. Since we know Gullty isn't going anywhere.
Great post.

Does anyone know why we got Crawford instead of Laviolette? Was he not interested in the Stars, or was he too expensive at the time?

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04-03-2012, 11:22 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
The league worst PP, league worst penalty discipline and league worst effort are simply not excusable. No coach in any decent organization would keep his job after this sort of season.
I suggest that all goes to the fact that they are not good enough to legitimately compete. There are a total of 4 top 6 players - how do you make an effective powerplay from that? Penalties? Hooks and trips caused by inability to keep up. What does management expect a coach to do? If management wants a winning team, it needs to spend winning money.

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04-03-2012, 11:23 PM
  #429
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Looks like we're the new Florida Panthers...I can't believe this is the same franchise that I watched win a cup in middle school. So sad.

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04-03-2012, 11:23 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Dead Again View Post
Coaching isnt this teams problem, talent is..
This team actually has some talent. It's just made a LOT worse by the coaching.

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04-03-2012, 11:24 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This team actually has some talent. It's just made a LOT worse by the coaching.
It has some talent, but not ENOUGH..Its not coaching..

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04-03-2012, 11:25 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I posted this in the General Talk thread but it belongs here too.

This team won't be as good as they need to be until Benn becomes a go to faceoff guy. He HAS to be a better than average faceoff guy in order to keep a guy like Burish off the ice in crunch time. That should be his number one area of improvement heading forward.

San Jose has Thornton, Pavelski, Coutoure they can put out up or down late in a game. All of them are good faceoff guys. This team has got to get to a point where it's best players are guys who can take faceoffs instead of relying on a lower line specialist with no offensive skill to speak of. Even if they keep Chiasson as a winger he should absolutely be keeping up with his faceoff duties.
Absolutely agree. Having to rely on guys like Ott and Burish to get you possession is a disaster because then those fools have to be on the ice in important situations. Itd be nice if Ribeiro was competent as well.

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04-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This team actually has some talent. It's just made a LOT worse by the coaching.
Burish and Ott are on our second line.

Souray-Robidas is our top pairing.

How can you are argue that his team has talent.

The problem is NOT coaching.

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04-03-2012, 11:27 PM
  #434
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I think its a mixture of both coaching and talent

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04-03-2012, 11:28 PM
  #435
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Whatever,we're done. Go Rangers. Both Texas AND New York..

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04-03-2012, 11:29 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Dirty Kari View Post
Burish and Ott are on our second line.

Souray-Robidas is our top pairing.

How can you are argue that his team has talent.

The problem is NOT coaching.
We've got a talented core.

Eriksson, Benn, Lehtonen.

Goligoski, Larsen, and Daley are top 4 D-men (I kind of don't think of Souray-Robidas as our top pair because they really shouldn't be).

Ribs and Ryder are great top 6 forwards.

We've got decent depth, but could use a bit more.

You neglect these points, and then make a statement about the entire team.

We've got Smith, Vincour, and Wandell who could all become top 6 players and are definitely better options over Burish.

Souray and Robidas are not the #1 and #2 D-men on the team. Gulutzan is the only reason they get so much ice time.

The PP is largely Gulutzan's fault. Ribs takes the blame on the ice, but it's all of Gully off the ice.

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04-03-2012, 11:31 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We've got a talented core.

Eriksson, Benn, Lehtonen.

Goligoski, Larsen, and Daley are top 4 D-men (I kind of don't think of Souray-Robidas as our top pair because they really shouldn't be).

Ribs and Ryder are great top 6 forwards.

We've got decent depth, but could use a bit more.

You neglect these points, and then make a statement about the entire team.
Really? lol

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04-03-2012, 11:31 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Great post.

Does anyone know why we got Crawford instead of Laviolette? Was he not interested in the Stars, or was he too expensive at the time?
Modano hated Laviolette and Brian Burke told Joe to hire Crawford.

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04-03-2012, 11:32 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This team actually has some talent. It's just made a LOT worse by the coaching.
Half of the forwards are very under talented. Wandell, Burrish, Dowell, Vincour, Fiddler, Dvorak, Garbutt, and Peterson all bring next to no offensive talent. None of those guys will provide any offense. That's a huge chunk of the roster. Nystrom had an amazing start to the season, but as he cooled, the lower lines essentially stopped helping win games.

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04-03-2012, 11:33 PM
  #440
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yeah virtually this same group of players was fine on the PP (not great or anything but good enough) in recent years, and I can't remember a time when Dallas players took so many horrible penalties. Unless you want to argue that the only reason we were good on the PP was Brad Richards in which case I'd question where that talent has went this year for him.

It comes down to preperation and game mangement by the coaching staff. It's been the same message of "oh well, maybe next time we'll actually try?" all yeah long and that sort of enviornment would not be tolerated by any franchise that is serious about winning.

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04-03-2012, 11:33 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Modano hated Laviolette and Brian Burke told Joe to hire Crawford.

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04-03-2012, 11:34 PM
  #442
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I believe Wandell could provide offense in a top-6 role provided he was playing with Benn.

There's no doubt this team is deficient in the talent department. But where were the complaints about talent level during the win streak around the trade deadline? Hard work was winning those games.

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04-03-2012, 11:34 PM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We've got a talented core.

Eriksson, Benn, Lehtonen.

Goligoski, Larsen, and Daley are top 4 D-men (I kind of don't think of Souray-Robidas as our top pair because they really shouldn't be).

Ribs and Ryder are great top 6 forwards.

We've got decent depth, but could use a bit more.

You neglect these points, and then make a statement about the entire team.
Its a 30 team league

So we have 4 top 6 forwards and 3 top 4 d-men, and a starting goalie. Woop de do. So do a lot of teams. The difference is their cores are either better and/or they have far more talented secondary players.

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04-03-2012, 11:36 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
We've got Smith, Vincour, and Wandell who could all become top 6 players and are definitely better options over Burish.
Wandell isn't even good enough to hold down a fourth line job on a crappy tem. He'll be lucky to get an offer from the team this summer.

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04-03-2012, 11:38 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Dirty Kari View Post
Its a 30 team league

So we have 4 top 6 forwards and 3 top 4 d-men, and a starting goalie. Woop de do. So do a lot of teams. The difference is their cores are either better and/or they have far more talented secondary players.
You're pretty much right except Goligoski is NOT a top four D-man. Unless your D REALLY sucks..hmmmm

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04-03-2012, 11:39 PM
  #446
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Whatever,we're done. Go Rangers. Both Texas AND New York..
Agreed on every point.

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04-03-2012, 11:40 PM
  #447
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There's no doubt this team is deficient in the talent department. But where were the complaints about talent level during the win streak around the trade deadline? Hard work was winning those games.
This.

Of course we have less talent then the Stanley Cup contenders. But other playoff teams? I don't buy it. Can you honestly say Phoenix has more talent then us? They have 2 real top 6 forwards, 3 if you count Doan. Their defense is hobbled together by cast aways and 2 young top draft picks. What about Nashville? Same thing, their top 6 are all tweaners and cast-aways. Strong coaching, systems, and leadership leads them. AND they have the best PP in the league.

Effort and strong systems overcome talent, always. Always. When this team was winning, effort and disciplined play was the reason why. And when they're losing, its not suddenly because they're not talented. How can anyone say this team plays the exact same now as they did during that 10 game streak. Or against Boston on New Years?

Teams get away with low levels of talent all the time. They work through it, they play smart, they play structured, and they work hard. Dallas did none of these for the vast majority of this year.

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04-03-2012, 11:41 PM
  #448
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You're pretty much right except Goligoski is NOT a top four D-man. Unless your D REALLY sucks..hmmmm
He is a top 4 d-man. I don't see how its really arguable. Top pairing. No. Top 4? Yes.

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04-03-2012, 11:42 PM
  #449
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We already have a thread arguing about Goose in General Talk. Please don't turn this one into that too. Take it there if you want to continue, it's getting old.

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04-03-2012, 11:46 PM
  #450
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We already have a thread arguing about Goose in General Talk. Please don't turn this one into that too. Take it there if you want to continue, it's getting old.
Every team needs a scapegoat.

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