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Rangers will be getting more Tommy Grants and Zuccarellos

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Old
04-03-2012, 11:04 PM
  #51
wafflepadsave
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Rangers current roster is filled with players in their early to mid 20s. MDZ, Hagelin, Stepan, McDonagh, etc. Considering any solid NHLer has a good 10 years of game in him, I'm not worried about our inability to continually add at the rate they have which has been about 2 solid rookies a year.

Even at that, many of their picks have come in the 2nd round or after. Consider this and that they've already been picking 10-20 1st rounders and easily become one of the top prospect pools in the league, Del Zotto and Kreider going 20 and 19 respectively. I'm not worried about where they're picking as it's become obvious that the Rangers scouting is superb, thanks large to Gordie Clark, and their development process is 2nd to none, Shoeny, Traverse city, etc. has improved it by leaps and bounds.

If the Rangers are able to retain their current players and only add 1 solid rookie a year, half of what they've been, we'll still have a full and competitive roster. This year Fedotenko leaves in come Kreider. At the end of next year everyone is either signed or an RFA so no one is going anywhere, yet we add 1 solid rookie. End of the following year, you have to worry about core players Callahan, Gaborik, and Girardi. Add a rookie and hope at least one of them resigns and you're still good. More likely is Girardi is dealt as McIlrath enters during the year. Moving Girardi for a solid prospect and maybe you get 2 solid rookies in a year or two.

Because of the Rangers current youth, currently the 4th youngest team in the league at an average age of 25, they are already poised to be in a good position for a long time, even if the number of solid prospects reaching the NHL diminishes.
Yes because the supply will increase while the demand decreases so the whale will finally have a lot of talent to work with.

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04-03-2012, 11:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Our future (and present) was and is only as bright as our ability to land the only top line playmaking center that was or will be available in the near future VIA free agency. I'm not sure how you were right about the Rangers being vastly underrated. Most of us had the Rangers finishing 4th-5th in the East, which is exactly where they would have finished if Sidney Crosby had played most of the season.



And? This is a cyclical league. That happens to everyone. That's generally a good thing, because it means you've managed to sustain regular season success (which tends to lead to at least some amount of post-season success, in most cases) for several years. Even the Red Wings are still benefitting from an era bygone where they were scouting Russia and Sweden at a depth that few other teams in the league were. Those days are mostly over, and as you see, they haven't been producing the kind of star players from their prospect ranks over the last few years. Yet they've done a good job of finding nice role players and complimentary players.



Being very high on Fasth, I don't think that will be a problem. But you don't know what's going to happen between now and then. There is going to be some kind of relatively major deal, likely for a scorer on the wing, eventually, and that will go a long way in determining what happens with Gaborik and the scoring situation going forward.


I know people here love Prust and Boyle, but replacing players like them is not very difficult. They're solid 4th line players, just like the solid 4th line players on a lot of other teams. And it's highly unlikely this team will be able to keep all of these defensemen. One of them is going to have to go eventually.
And that my friend, is going to be the most intriguing transaction upcoming!

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04-04-2012, 06:26 AM
  #53
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Tom Pyatt had a rough first pro season in 07-08. He even was assigned to the ECHL. He had a bounce back season in 08-09. The Rangers included him in the Scott Gomez deal in 2009. Pyatt has carved out a NHL career with Montreal and now TB. Its too early to give up on Ryan Bourque.

The CBA will determine the direction of the franchise. If the cap goes down by a few million and remains flat in the next CBA,the Rangers and other teams won't be able to rely on cap increases to keep their players. Bringing in another big ticket(Nash/Parise). Is there enough room to bring in that player and keep the team together? Players will need to be moved. Is that smart? They are already a good team. Would you rather have Gaborik at $7.5M for the next 2 years or Nash at $7.8M for the next 6 years or Parise for $7M plus for the next decade? Nash and Parise are 2 years younger than Gaborik who has 2 40 goal seasons as a Ranger. Paying DZ. Paying McD. Paying Stepan.

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04-04-2012, 08:54 AM
  #54
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I'm actually quite pleased with our prospect pool at the moment. There's a nice blend of skill, tenacity, defense and leadership. Will they all pan out? Of course not, but there are kids in the group that can fill different roles even if they don't turn into top-six forwards or top-4 d-men.

Additionally, if we identify a "core" of players to retain, the ones who we are forced to trade away can return a plethora of assets. Look at what Chicago did last couple years. They moved some pieces and had 6 picks in the first three rounds of each of the last two drafts. They restocked their system in two years and are still competitive.

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04-04-2012, 09:16 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm actually quite pleased with our prospect pool at the moment. There's a nice blend of skill, tenacity, defense and leadership. Will they all pan out? Of course not, but there are kids in the group that can fill different roles even if they don't turn into top-six forwards or top-4 d-men.

Additionally, if we identify a "core" of players to retain, the ones who we are forced to trade away can return a plethora of assets. Look at what Chicago did last couple years. They moved some pieces and had 6 picks in the first three rounds of each of the last two drafts. They restocked their system in two years and are still competitive.
This is something I don't think many people understand. The Rangers, in the near future, will have to trade some pieces away as they all can't play in NY forever. They will have cheaper alternatives on the way. It may not be this off-season but it will be soon. I just hope they can make the "right" trades.

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04-04-2012, 09:30 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Our future (and present) was and is only as bright as our ability to land the only top line playmaking center that was or will be available in the near future VIA free agency. I'm not sure how you were right about the Rangers being vastly underrated. Most of us had the Rangers finishing 4th-5th in the East, which is exactly where they would have finished if Sidney Crosby had played most of the season.
The Pens are:

37-19-4 with Crosby out of the lineup and
12-6-2 with Crosby in the lineup

Which is roughly the same (multiply by 3 and it's 36-18-6)

Ridiculous statement in any event. If we had Staal healthy out of camp and Sauer healthy maybe we would've ended up with an even better record.

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04-04-2012, 09:49 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
The Pens are:

37-19-4 with Crosby out of the lineup and
12-6-2 with Crosby in the lineup

Which is roughly the same (multiply by 3 and it's 36-18-6)

Ridiculous statement in any event. If we had Staal healthy out of camp and Sauer healthy maybe we would've ended up with an even better record.
So, you think that the Penguins are just as good without the best player in the world, the guy who has a 1.7 PPG average, significantly higher than the 2nd best PPG average in the league (Malkin, 1.44), as they are with him?

No doubt, the Rangers could have been even better with Staal and Sauer. But the Penguins are going to finish just behind the Rangers with just 22 games of Crosby, who also missed training camp, and is now spending time playing with some wingers who are new to the team this season. The records you just gave don't take into account any of a number of variables, either (strength of schedule, point in the season when Crosby started playing, etc). BTW, the Pens were without Letang for nearly as long as the Rangers were without Staal this season.

No disrespect, but I think anyone that can't admit that the Penguins are the strongest team in the East, if not the entire league, is nuts. That doesn't mean they can't be beaten in a playoff series, but not only do I think they would have won the Atlantic Division with a healthy Crosby, (and thus the Eastern Conference), but I think they would have done it by a healthy margin. Then again, I think they would have won the Stanley Cup last year if they were healthy, too. They have two of the three best players in the sport, a ton of depth at every position, particularly the most important position, and an above average goaltender. If Crosby can stay relatively healthy, they should be in for a San Antonio Spurs-like dynasty. They should win 2-3 Cups in the next 4-6 years.

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04-04-2012, 10:27 AM
  #58
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Are the Pens better with Crosby? Sure. Does their regular season record bear this out? No. I'll readily admit that, on paper, a healthy Penguins team is probably the best roster in the league (maybe Canucks, 'Hawks) but that doesn't mean the Rangers would've finished lower or higher and it's irrelevant. Every team in the league can say "if X player was healthy our record would've been better".

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04-04-2012, 10:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Are the Pens better with Crosby? Sure. Does their regular season record bear this out? No. I'll readily admit that, on paper, a healthy Penguins team is probably the best roster in the league (maybe Canucks, 'Hawks) but that doesn't mean the Rangers would've finished lower or higher and it's irrelevant. Every team in the league can say "if X player was healthy our record would've been better".
Without a doubt, every team can point to injuries as a reason for not doing as well as they should have. The Flyers would have been a lot tougher this season with Pronger, for example. However, the difference is, no other team (except MAYBE the Red Wings) could point to injuries as the reason they didn't finish in first place overall. And I don't think it is irrelevant in the sense that it alters expectations (not to mention, affects playoff match-ups and home ice arrangements...granted, the Rangers have the Flyers number so that first round match-up may not have been so bad).

One of the biggest reasons I was so happy to see the Rangers not trade for Nash is because I thought it was a symptom of unhealthy expectations. As if anything less than Cup win this season was a disappointment. Not to me. I don't think this team is the best team, so I'm not going to be disappointed if they don't win the Cup as long as they had a strong showing and either get to the conference finals or lose to the Penguins in the second round in a tough series.

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04-04-2012, 11:11 AM
  #60
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I can get on board with that for the most part. I didn't expect 109-113 points and 1st place in the East, that's for sure. I won't be satisfied with one round and out the next, though, if only for the reason that we're 1st overall and have home ice. I think anything less than making it to the Eastern Conference finals would be disappointing at this point.

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04-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Without a doubt, every team can point to injuries as a reason for not doing as well as they should have. The Flyers would have been a lot tougher this season with Pronger, for example. However, the difference is, no other team (except MAYBE the Red Wings) could point to injuries as the reason they didn't finish in first place overall. And I don't think it is irrelevant in the sense that it alters expectations (not to mention, affects playoff match-ups and home ice arrangements...granted, the Rangers have the Flyers number so that first round match-up may not have been so bad).

One of the biggest reasons I was so happy to see the Rangers not trade for Nash is because I thought it was a symptom of unhealthy expectations. As if anything less than Cup win this season was a disappointment. Not to me. I don't think this team is the best team, so I'm not going to be disappointed if they don't win the Cup as long as they had a strong showing and either get to the conference finals or lose to the Penguins in the second round in a tough series.
This is spot on. And you are not even considering the NHL's favoritism toward the Pens.

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04-04-2012, 09:57 PM
  #62
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Tom Pyatt had a rough first pro season in 07-08. He even was assigned to the ECHL. He had a bounce back season in 08-09. The Rangers included him in the Scott Gomez deal in 2009. Pyatt has carved out a NHL career with Montreal and now TB. Its too early to give up on Ryan Bourque.

The CBA will determine the direction of the franchise. If the cap goes down by a few million and remains flat in the next CBA,the Rangers and other teams won't be able to rely on cap increases to keep their players. Bringing in another big ticket(Nash/Parise). Is there enough room to bring in that player and keep the team together? Players will need to be moved. Is that smart? They are already a good team. Would you rather have Gaborik at $7.5M for the next 2 years or Nash at $7.8M for the next 6 years or Parise for $7M plus for the next decade? Nash and Parise are 2 years younger than Gaborik who has 2 40 goal seasons as a Ranger. Paying DZ. Paying McD. Paying Stepan.
At this point, that may not even be necessary---given how well the Rangers have passed. Now, it may make for a barren Whale roster, but the NHL roster is pretty stacked with good young players. We already have our big-ticket player in Gaborik...and he has showed that last year's injury-plagued season is a fluke.

And as others have said, of the major homegrown players on the roster today, you have Staal and Bickel who were Rangers 1st-round picks.

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04-05-2012, 07:35 AM
  #63
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At this point, that may not even be necessary---given how well the Rangers have passed. Now, it may make for a barren Whale roster, but the NHL roster is pretty stacked with good young players. We already have our big-ticket player in Gaborik...and he has showed that last year's injury-plagued season is a fluke.

And as others have said, of the major homegrown players on the roster today, you have Staal and Bickel who were Rangers 1st-round picks.
Bickel was undrafted and signed as a free agent by the Ducks.

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04-05-2012, 09:27 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
The Pens are:

37-19-4 with Crosby out of the lineup and
12-6-2 with Crosby in the lineup

Which is roughly the same (multiply by 3 and it's 36-18-6)

Ridiculous statement in any event. If we had Staal healthy out of camp and Sauer healthy maybe we would've ended up with an even better record.
This ends that debate. It's always easy to play the "if" game especially with injuries. What if gabs had been himself last year? What if Cherepanov hadn't passed away? Easy to do but it didn't happen. What if we had signed Matt Read instead of Grant? What if we had signed jagr to help the PP? The Crosby arguement is neatly cancelled by the loss of half our top 4 on D. We overcame our issue. if they couldn't overcome theirs then that's their problem for tanking and not building a solid overall team/system

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