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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
04-03-2012, 11:20 AM
  #651
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Sure, that's fair enough. But what if no "guaranteed" contenders for next year actually come knocking July 1st? At the very least, it's possible that Montreal would be top/high on the "alternatives" list - should he want out of Anaheim, that is. Bet he stays put, but who knows.
problem with Montreal is that he'd be slotted in as 4th line C, unless he shifted to the wing... and given Pleks-DD-Eller are the 3 centers that would be ahead of him on the depth chart, he's not a good "fit" to complement them as our 4th line C.

If we did happen to make some major move that saw one of the incumbent 3 C's shipped away, Koivu coming in as our 3rd line C would not be a bad option... not the physically imposing type of player we could use down the middle, but nevertheless would be a decent short-term option.

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04-03-2012, 11:55 AM
  #652
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Saku will play with his brother in Minny before even thinking about coming back to Montreal.


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04-03-2012, 12:04 PM
  #653
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problem with Montreal is that he'd be slotted in as 4th line C, unless he shifted to the wing... and given Pleks-DD-Eller are the 3 centers that would be ahead of him on the depth chart, he's not a good "fit" to complement them as our 4th line C.

If we did happen to make some major move that saw one of the incumbent 3 C's shipped away, Koivu coming in as our 3rd line C would not be a bad option... not the physically imposing type of player we could use down the middle, but nevertheless would be a decent short-term option.
Like I suggested in post#646, I wouldn't go out of my way to make an Eller-Koivu-Leblanc 3rd line, but I don't see a problem with it so I wouldn't mind seeing it, either. With the right 4th line to follow them up, and "proper" defense present in all three defensive pairings... I dunno, could work. Swap Koivu and Eller if you prefer, but I like the idea of Eller and Leblanc working with Koivu every day as his wingers.

Ultimately at least one of them will likely become a full-time centre for the Habs in the future, but not where they "need to be" while DD and Pleks are here, so why not learn what they can from Koivu next year? I think they're exactly the right players to get the best out of Koivu, and it leaves Max with DD (and probably Gionta) and Cole with Pleks. Part of my reasoning, also, is that I think Leblanc looks ready for more than just 4th line duties next year, but finding somewhere in the top 6 for him would also be jumping the gun big time.

I don't think Eller is ready to move up to the top 6 unless he's transitioned to wing (only Pleks' line has a "vacant" LW position), and if that's the ultimate plan, then I REALLY like keeping him on the 3rd line beside someone like Koivu for a year first. As long as the third guy on that line isn't deadweight, and actually contributes to both ends of the ice like you know the other two will, Koivu wouldn't be asked to do too much.

So, if you follow that reasoning, you can see how I end up with that 3rd line IF Koivu was brought back. Don't know if that'd be the best way to seriously compete for a Cup either next year OR farther in the future, but I can envision the merit and entertainment of bringing back a player who could very well re-assume the captain's role after the leadership void that resulted this year from both injuries and disappointing performances. But again, I don't even think Koivu will leave Anaheim, so...

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04-03-2012, 12:09 PM
  #654
Pierre Dagenais
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Bringing in Koivu would be a great PR and Marketing move

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04-03-2012, 12:12 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Bringing in Koivu would be a great PR and Marketing move
Unfortunately, that's all it would be. His best days are behind him and we need to make room for our young guys. He's happy in California and if I was him, I'd stay there.

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04-03-2012, 12:22 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post

I don't think Eller is ready to move up to the top 6 unless he's transitioned to wing
(only Pleks' line has a "vacant" LW position), and if that's the ultimate plan, then I REALLY like keeping him on the 3rd line beside someone like Koivu for a year first. As long as the third guy on that line isn't deadweight, and actually contributes to both ends of the ice like you know the other two will, Koivu wouldn't be asked to do too much.
Kind of tough to know where this guy really is in terms of progression because we've handled him quite poorly over the year, or at least, since RC took over.
Martin was slowly breaking him in as a top shutdown guy. He formed a trio with Moen, who's always been a checking line center, and AK, who, under Martin, has improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds. Whenever they faced weaker bottom line opponents, they absolutely dominated them.

Pretty sure most had DD behind Eller at the beginning of the season in terms of center depth. Heck, some might have had him behind Gomez, which is why he was the one people moved to the wing.

I don't think it's fair to say Eller is not ready for a top 6 role. He is 5th in terms of ES scoring, despite having played 150-200min less than the guys in front. Not only that, but he's done it with much less talented wingers.
16 goals overall averaging 15min on a 3rd/4th line playing with scrappers for more than half the year and without much PP time, which ties him up with DD and Plek for goals. Not too shabby. I wouldn't be so quick to say he's not ready for top 6 duties.

But obviously, he's not going to beat Plekanec out of it. However, I don't want us to use him as a checking center, that would be a waste. I want us to give him offensive wingers so they can dominate opposition, and I also want us to alternate those centers during the PP. It really baffles me that DD gets to play with the two best wingers both at ES and on the PP, especially considering it leads to very little on the PP.

I'm not saying Eller is particularly ready for a top 6 role. What I'm saying is that I don't think management has handled him well enough for us to really know what we have under our hands.
In any event, he needs offensive wingers, not guys like Ryan White.


As for Koivu, if he wants to make a return to Mtl, then he's the one that should be moved to the wing.

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04-03-2012, 12:26 PM
  #657
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I love Koivu but he needs to go to a contender. There is no point in the Habs bringing him in to centre the 3rd line.
It would be tragic if Koivu ends his career without a cup ring. Still I'd like to see him back with the Habs. Would we give him back the ''C'' even if Gionta is still there?

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04-03-2012, 12:29 PM
  #658
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It would be tragic if Koivu ends his career without a cup ring. Still I'd like to see him back with the Habs. Would we give him back the ''C'' even if Gionta is still there?
Let's bring back Kovalev too... And Gill... And Spacek...

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04-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #659
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Let's bring back Kovalev too... And Gill... And Spacek...
Did you just compare Captain Saku to Gill, Kovy and Spacek?!? Bring back Saku, he never should've left in the first place.

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04-03-2012, 02:24 PM
  #660
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Kind of tough to know where this guy really is in terms of progression because we've handled him quite poorly over the year, or at least, since RC took over.
Martin was slowly breaking him in as a top shutdown guy. He formed a trio with Moen, who's always been a checking line center, and AK, who, under Martin, has improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds. Whenever they faced weaker bottom line opponents, they absolutely dominated them.

Pretty sure most had DD behind Eller at the beginning of the season in terms of center depth. Heck, some might have had him behind Gomez, which is why he was the one people moved to the wing.

I don't think it's fair to say Eller is not ready for a top 6 role. He is 5th in terms of ES scoring, despite having played 150-200min less than the guys in front. Not only that, but he's done it with much less talented wingers.
16 goals overall averaging 15min on a 3rd/4th line playing with scrappers for more than half the year and without much PP time, which ties him up with DD and Plek for goals. Not too shabby. I wouldn't be so quick to say he's not ready for top 6 duties.

But obviously, he's not going to beat Plekanec out of it. However, I don't want us to use him as a checking center, that would be a waste. I want us to give him offensive wingers so they can dominate opposition, and I also want us to alternate those centers during the PP. It really baffles me that DD gets to play with the two best wingers both at ES and on the PP, especially considering it leads to very little on the PP.

I'm not saying Eller is particularly ready for a top 6 role. What I'm saying is that I don't think management has handled him well enough for us to really know what we have under our hands.
In any event, he needs offensive wingers, not guys like Ryan White.


As for Koivu, if he wants to make a return to Mtl, then he's the one that should be moved to the wing.
It's unfortunate that he'll never get a fair shot to be a top 6 player as long as Plekanec is in Montreal...

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04-03-2012, 04:19 PM
  #661
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It's sad people are still caught up over Plekanec, who put up 50 points in a season where he had the honor of playing with Rene Bourque and other superstar wingers, while having defensive mandates and playing in all situations. He was one season removed from being the lead scorer for the whole team, with 57 points, which isn't alot, but it's good for the Habs teams under Martin's system.

Plekanec is consistent, and has the talent to put up big points. He's versatile and brings more to the table than Desharnais. If they're both battling for the 2nd line role behind a legitimate first line center, 30 GM out of 30 would take Plekanec because of his versatility and his two-way play.

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04-03-2012, 05:54 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Let's bring back Kovalev too... And Gill... And Spacek...
Koivu should have never left and should retire a Habs. Kovalev, Gill and Spacek played only a few years with us, Koivu would have played his entire career here and was drafted by us.

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04-04-2012, 08:52 AM
  #663
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What did Mtl get in return for Max Lapierre, what did Anaheim get when they flipped him a few months later, and what would Van get for him now? This makes me sad.

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04-04-2012, 11:43 AM
  #664
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What did Mtl get in return for Max Lapierre, what did Anaheim get when they flipped him a few months later, and what would Van get for him now? This makes me sad.
Hindsight 20/20. Lapierre never played like that for us (at the moment of the trade).

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04-04-2012, 12:17 PM
  #665
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Like I suggested in post#646, I wouldn't go out of my way to make an Eller-Koivu-Leblanc 3rd line, but I don't see a problem with it so I wouldn't mind seeing it, either. With the right 4th line to follow them up, and "proper" defense present in all three defensive pairings... I dunno, could work. Swap Koivu and Eller if you prefer, but I like the idea of Eller and Leblanc working with Koivu every day as his wingers.

Ultimately at least one of them will likely become a full-time centre for the Habs in the future, but not where they "need to be" while DD and Pleks are here, so why not learn what they can from Koivu next year? I think they're exactly the right players to get the best out of Koivu, and it leaves Max with DD (and probably Gionta) and Cole with Pleks. Part of my reasoning, also, is that I think Leblanc looks ready for more than just 4th line duties next year, but finding somewhere in the top 6 for him would also be jumping the gun big time.

I don't think Eller is ready to move up to the top 6 unless he's transitioned to wing (only Pleks' line has a "vacant" LW position), and if that's the ultimate plan, then I REALLY like keeping him on the 3rd line beside someone like Koivu for a year first. As long as the third guy on that line isn't deadweight, and actually contributes to both ends of the ice like you know the other two will, Koivu wouldn't be asked to do too much.

So, if you follow that reasoning, you can see how I end up with that 3rd line IF Koivu was brought back. Don't know if that'd be the best way to seriously compete for a Cup either next year OR farther in the future, but I can envision the merit and entertainment of bringing back a player who could very well re-assume the captain's role after the leadership void that resulted this year from both injuries and disappointing performances. But again, I don't even think Koivu will leave Anaheim, so...
i see what your saying...

i like the "idea" of Eller-Koivu-Leblanc on many levels, though I'd probably lean toward Koivu taking faceoffs but Eller taking on more of the C "role" once the play was live, & this only if in the pre-season Eller didn't show a noticeable improvement on the draw (something that, simply from a "gut" pov, I think he will be working his arse off on in the off-season... strikes me as the kind of athlete who will diligently focus on improving his weaknesses).

aside from being a potentially positive "fit" between/with those 2 young players, he'd be coming in pretty cap-friendly I imagine, allowing us to be aggressive in adding a top-4 dman (Suter... Stuart... Jackman).

Bourque-Pleks-Gionta
MaxPac- DD- Cole
Eller - Koivu- Leblanc

maybe not "contending" on forward strength alone, but with a bolstered defense and a stellar season from Price, certainly a roster that could do some damage come playoff time.

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04-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #666
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Hindsight 20/20. Lapierre never played like that for us (at the moment of the trade).
The year before centering Lats and Kostopolos, he was playing like THAT !

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04-04-2012, 12:21 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Hindsight 20/20. Lapierre never played like that for us (at the moment of the trade).
it's not just hindsight... at the time of the trade it was clear we didn't get quality value in return for what Lapierre's potential was. That anaheim (with whom he didn't play much better than with us that year), was able to get more just one month later simply cemented what many thought at the time.


Lapierre was still very young, & had shown in his rise from fringe prospect to everyday NHler (including a few brief glimpses of excellent 3rd line ability/performance) enough to make a 5th + AHL prospect a bad return AT THE TIME.

that he was struggling a bit "at the moment of the trade" doesn't justify that the management team lacked the foresight to either let him work through it, or the schrewdness to get at least adequate return for him in trade.

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04-04-2012, 12:26 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Hindsight 20/20. Lapierre never played like that for us (at the moment of the trade).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
it's not just hindsight... at the time of the trade it was clear we didn't get quality value in return for what Lapierre's potential was. That anaheim (with whom he didn't play much better than with us that year), was able to get more just one month later simply cemented what many thought at the time.


Lapierre was still very young, & had shown in his rise from fringe prospect to everyday NHler (including a few brief glimpses of excellent 3rd line ability/performance) enough to make a 5th + AHL prospect a bad return AT THE TIME.

that he was struggling a bit "at the moment of the trade" doesn't justify that the management team lacked the foresight to either let him work through it, or the schrewdness to get at least adequate return for him in trade.
Quote:
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The year before centering Lats and Kostopolos, he was playing like THAT !
Jacques "I dislike hits and emotion" Martin never had faith in him: when all your ES TOI is given to Pyatt and your PK TOI to, watch out... Cammalleri (!), you know your coach has zero faith in you. That (edit: combined with his ankle injury - he played through it in November and December. According to legit sources, he had difficulties removing his skates after the games) explains a large chunk of Lapierre's performance during the last weeks of his tenure with us imo.

I already mentioned it but Lapierre would look great on Eller's RW or at C with White on 4th.

Luckily for us we still have White and Dumont.


@ Jack Bourdain

No hindsight: Lapierre always was a relentless forechecker with lightning speed and size, a great pest with solid defensive awareness, a prolific hitter who steps his game up a notch come playoffs time and the guy was in love with Montreal.

He is and always was a solid bottom liner.


PS we badly need to retain more home grown talents like him.

PPS I edited this post numerous times! Heck... I did it again!


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-04-2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason: + ankle injury
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04-04-2012, 12:30 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Jacques "I dislike hits and emotion" Martin never had faith in him: when all your ES TOI is given to Pyatt and your PK TOI to, watch out... Cammalleri (!), you know your coach has zero faith in you.

I already mentioned it but Lapierre would look great on Eller's RW or at C with White on 4th.

Luckily for us we still have White and Dumont.
Lapierre was attracting too much attention in Montreal for martin's and the habs taste... A TV show (even if it was his house deco), popular with girls and people, out going... Too much for that grey & beige organisation

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04-04-2012, 12:40 PM
  #670
Kjell Dahlin
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Lapierre was attracting too much attention in Montreal for martin's and the habs taste... A TV show (even if it was his house deco), popular with girls and people, out going... Too much for that grey & beige organisation
About grey & beige... enough with all the former Sens! I never understood why the Montreal Canadiens decided to use them (Martin, Gauthier, Cunneyworth…) as a model.

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04-04-2012, 12:44 PM
  #671
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Hindsight 20/20. Lapierre never played like that for us (at the moment of the trade).
The part I'm most confused about is how we thought as highly of him as we did for a few months of Paul Mara.

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04-04-2012, 12:44 PM
  #672
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About grey & beige... enough with all the former Sens! I never understood why the Montreal Canadiens decided to use them (Martin, Gauthier, Cunneyworth…) as a model.
That is why a guy like Patrick Roy is so important to hire. Let's bring back some passion and colour to this team !

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04-04-2012, 12:49 PM
  #673
Kjell Dahlin
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That is why a guy like Patrick Roy is so important to hire. Let's bring back some passion and colour to this team !
Gorges, Desharnais and Price agree wih you... so do I!

Ref.: List of candidates for GM and Coach Part III - Post #112

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04-13-2012, 10:34 PM
  #674
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Thanks to Qui Gon Dave for the link:

"... Obviously, Gill and Gaustad give them big bodies . . . (who) have a role on the penalty kill and faceoffs in particular," Babcock said. "But no one talks about (Andrei) Kostitsyn.

"The best deal was for Kostitsyn. He’s a heavy body with skill and so that makes them deeper.
" - Mike Babcock

Anything that comes from the mouth of the Red Wings' head coach or gm is gold in my book. They are THE reference. Shipping Andrei away was a mistake imo.


Ref.: http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/04/0...58&feedID=3804

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04-13-2012, 10:52 PM
  #675
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Let me put it this way, if you manage to find a player like AK with a second round draft pick you hit a home run. If Kristo has a career anything like that, Timmins is going to be called a genius for picking him.

I know people overrate Kostitsyn, just as they do Cammalleri and even Pouliot to make things look even worse than they were. But that trade made no sense, especially after getting rid of Cammy.

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