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Should Messier be allowed to play?

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:39 AM
  #1
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Should Messier be allowed to play?

I didn't realize Habs fans would be upset over this.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=29101

One Habs fan evens says Edmonton doesn't have any hockey history.

I wish I was born in 1970 so I could remember the 1981 playoff. There is some history.

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:43 AM
  #2
Yosemite Sam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan
I didn't realize Habs fans would be upset over this.

http://www.hfboards.com/images/bottom_head.gif

One Habs fan evens goes as far to say Edmonton doesn't have any hockey history.

I wish I was born in 1970 so I could remember the 1981 playoff.
I imagine you're trying to link us to a thread - check the link.

Anyway, it's just a non-contact exhibition game for the fans. The outcome doesn't matter, only the entertainment and fun factor.

So really, what's the problem? Maybe the habs fans are just tired of losing this yearand they want a "win" anyway they can get it.

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:51 AM
  #3
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I for one won't be hooting and hollering if the Oil Alums beat the Hab ones... I think it will be fun to watch, and I could care less if they even keep score.

I don't understand what the whining is about... just enjoy the fun... take the real NHL game seriously.

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11-18-2003, 07:59 AM
  #4
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What did I tell you guys yesterday?

I'll quote it:

"I realize that but since he is Ranger's property isn't this something like conflict of interest? Also, Why don't the Habs just ice a bunch of their former players currently active on other teams?

"As much as I think it's cool - do you really think the Habs are going to go along with this? Messier is a Ranger and currently active - not retired. It just doesn't seem like it should be possible."


Imagine if we didn't ice Messier and the Habs put - I don't know - T-Bo in net or Hackett in net. Or brought in their former captain - Trevor Linden. Wouldn't we be whining?

That's all I was trying to say yesterday. It just doesn't seem fair placing an active player in an old-timers game. Maybe because I live in Vancouver I can see that easier rather than being in the centre of the Oilers universe. I don't know.

You tell me.

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11-18-2003, 07:59 AM
  #5
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I don't think they should let him play. He isn't retired and we won't get to see him play with Anderson anyways (unless Andy decides to show after all) and maybe we can get another game out of Gretzky in the future just so he can play with Mess one more time.

Does anyone know why Anderson isn't coming? Does it have something to do with the legal problems he's been having with the mother of his child?

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:03 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
What did I tell you guys yesterday?

I'll quote it:

"I realize that but since he is Ranger's property isn't this something like conflict of interest? Also, Why don't the Habs just ice a bunch of their former players currently active on other teams?

As much as I think it's cool - do you really think the Habs are going to go along with this? Messier is a Ranger and currently active - not retired. It just doesn't seem like it should be possible."

Imagine if we didn't ice Messier and the Habs put - I don't know - T-Bo in net or Hackett in net. Or brought in their former captain - Trevor Linden. Wouldn't we be whining?

That's all I was trying to say yesterday. It just doesn't seem fair placing an active player in an old-timers game. Maybe because I live in Vancouver I can see that easier rather than being in the centre of the Oilers universe. I don't know.

You tell me.
I'll tell you....

When was Hackett or T-Bo part of a Habs dynasty? That is the difference. You are comparing apples to oranges.

The whole point of this game is for the fans of Edmonton to see the players of the Oilers dynasty together again, for a little nostalgia, that's all.

I don't think you would hear anyone complain if they had any members of their 93 cup team (if any are still active) play, because that was a special team.

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11-18-2003, 08:08 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Imagine if we didn't ice Messier and the Habs put - I don't know - T-Bo in net or Hackett in net. Or brought in their former captain - Trevor Linden. Wouldn't we be whining?

That's all I was trying to say yesterday. It just doesn't seem fair placing an active player in an old-timers game. Maybe because I live in Vancouver I can see that easier rather than being in the centre of the Oilers universe. I don't know.

You tell me.
Being the second leading scorer of ALL-TIME gives Messier more clout to play in this game than Linden, T-Bo and Hackett will ever have combined. How many cups do they have?

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:10 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I'll tell you....

When was Hackett or T-Bo part of a Habs dynasty? That is the difference. You are comparing apples to oranges.

The whole point of this game is for the fans of Edmonton to see the players of the Oilers dynasty together again, for a little nostalgia, that's all.

I don't think you would hear anyone complain if they had any members of their 93 cup team (if any are still active) play, because that was a special team.
Well let's hope. But honestly - it's selfish of us to want to see Messier, an active player on another team, in Oiler silks once again. I understand we as fans love the idea of seeing the boys on the bus all together again. I'm one of them.

If Messier had retired at the end of last year - it would make sense to me. He hasn't.

I guess a point that could be brought up is that this is an Alumni game. Messier is Alumni. With that contention - why don't we invite Doug Weight and Jason Arnott over. Perhaps Cujo? They were all part of that amazing first round win in 1997. Hell - just bring in Todd Marchant - the scorer of the famous goal in OT.

I understand the game is in fun but I think a lot of Oiler fans are being blind about it purely because of their love for this team and its amazing history. If Mike Comrie can't come into training camp without a contract - Mark Messier shouldn't be able to come to an alumni/old timer's game until he is retired.

It amazes me I am the only one - other than Habs fans - to see this. Sheesh.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:14 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Well let's hope. But honestly - it's selfish of us to want to see Messier, an active player on another team, in Oiler silks once again. I understand we as fans love the idea of seeing the boys on the bus all together again. I'm one of them.

If Messier had retired at the end of last year - it would make sense to me. He hasn't.

I guess a point that could be brought up is that this is an Alumni game. Messier is Alumni. With that contention - why don't we invite Doug Weight and Jason Arnott over. Perhaps Cujo? They were all part of that amazing first round win in 1997. Hell - just bring in Todd Marchant - the scorer of the famous goal in OT.

I understand the game is in fun but I think a lot of Oiler fans are being blind about it purely because of their love for this team and its amazing history. If Mike Comrie can't come into training camp without a contract - Mark Messier shouldn't be able to come to an alumni/old timer's game until he is retired.

It amazes me I am the only one - other than Habs fans - to see this. Sheesh.
I don't equate the first round upset with winning the stanley cup... 5 times. Messier is a special player in Oiler history, and he is being recognized for that.

And let's be honest, Messier isn't stupid. He isn't going to go out on the ice and dominate the game and try and score 8 goals. It wouldn't suprise me if all he did was take 5 or 6 shifts, and maybe do one full speed rush along the right side and unleash that wrist shot... aside from that, he will probably do a lot of coasting, and a lot of passing.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:14 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty mcboobs
Being the second leading scorer of ALL-TIME gives Messier more clout to play in this game than Linden, T-Bo and Hackett will ever have combined. How many cups do they have?
Fine... how would we feel if they iced:

Mathieu Schneider
Eric Desjardins
Vincent Damphousse
Patrice Brisebois
John LeClair
Mike Keane

I'd be a little peeved I think.

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11-18-2003, 08:17 AM
  #11
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Montreal asked Chelios but he can't play because they have a game that night. If he was able nobody from Montreal would say a word and all would be well.

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11-18-2003, 08:18 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I don't equate the first round upset with winning the stanley cup... 5 times. Messier is a special player in Oiler history, and he is being recognized for that.

And let's be honest, Messier isn't stupid. He isn't going to go out on the ice and dominate the game and try and score 8 goals. It wouldn't suprise me if all he did was take 5 or 6 shifts, and maybe do one full speed rush along the right side and unleash that wrist shot... aside from that, he will probably do a lot of coasting, and a lot of passing.
Ha ha..

That's a good point. Nonetheless - I'm still not going to think his addition is fair simply because of the fundamentals. It's the same reason why if our team goes down in the first round of the playoffs all our players don't go over to Toronto and play for the Roadrunners. Granted - Toronto would have to make it into the AHL playoffs first. Also, there are rules against it.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:19 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxall9
Montreal asked Chelios but he can't play because they have a game that night. If he was able nobody from Montreal would say a word and all would be well.
Did they ask before or after we asked Messier? Because I suppose if Montreal asked Chelios to play before we asked Messier that makes it all even-steven.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:23 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Did they ask before or after we asked Messier? Because I suppose if Montreal asked Chelios to play before we asked Messier that makes it all even-steven.
Not sure but they talked about it on Sportsnet last night. If they didn't have a game he would be there, not to mention if you look at the Habs roster, they have a lot of guys who have played within the last few years (Muller) and I heard the Oilers alum were a little miffed about that. The Habs also asked Roy but he said no, would that have been fair? Other than Mess, I think Gretz was the last one to play in the NHL.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:31 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Fine... how would we feel if they iced:

Mathieu Schneider
Eric Desjardins
Vincent Damphousse
Patrice Brisebois
John LeClair
Mike Keane

I'd be a little peeved I think.
I don't know how you would feel, but I personally wouldn't care, I just want to see all the Oiler greats one more time. I mean, I was 9 when Gretz got traded. I have a few old game tapes on beta, and a few books, but really that's it...

... also, why would a 32 year old, or a 34 year old play in an alumni game? It's not like Messier is 35, the guy is 43, and the only thing separating him from his alumni members is that Mess both wants to keep playing, and has found someone to keep paying him.

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11-18-2003, 08:35 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
Ha ha..

That's a good point. Nonetheless - I'm still not going to think his addition is fair simply because of the fundamentals. It's the same reason why if our team goes down in the first round of the playoffs all our players don't go over to Toronto and play for the Roadrunners. Granted - Toronto would have to make it into the AHL playoffs first. Also, there are rules against it.
Yeah... but you seem to think that there is a rule book out there for exhibition games involving players who are not in the NHL, or NHLPA... there isn't.

There is a rule against dropping all your players down in the AHL because there were pre-determined rules based on what is good for the league, and also NHL rules from the CBA (i.e. waivers).

Apples and oranges.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:36 AM
  #17
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I don't know why some people are so caught up over who wins the Alumni game. The more former superstars, the more of a spectacle the event will be. Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey, and now Messier on the ice together. When will you ever see this again? Never.

Hey, if the Habs could get Roy in net for the alum game, the better...I wouldn't mind if Roy goes ahead and shuts everyone out. The whole point is to watch these former superstars play some good ol fashioned outdoor hockey.

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11-18-2003, 08:41 AM
  #18
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Who gives a crap who wins the alumni game, it's the real game we shouls be worrying about.

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11-18-2003, 09:59 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxall9
Who gives a crap who wins the alumni game, it's the real game we shouls be worrying about.
Amen.

I rest my case.

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11-18-2003, 10:04 AM
  #20
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I agree it's not a *huge* deal either way, but I'd vote more for him not playing. I think he should be there, maybe another assistant coach or something, or he drops the puck, or...???

But I won't lose sleep over it, either.

Bart

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11-18-2003, 10:10 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxall9
Who gives a crap who wins the alumni game, it's the real game we shouls be worrying about.
right on - what a crock of whines about nothing.

they are going to do what - play two 15 minute shinny periods.

the whole point was to bring back the boys on the bus. Mess was there and is (a huge) part of it. He should be there, and he will be, and the whiners can all stay home if they like.

I scored great (really great) seats - and will enjoy every minute of it.

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11-18-2003, 10:18 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
I guess a point that could be brought up is that this is an Alumni game. Messier is Alumni. With that contention - why don't we invite Doug Weight and Jason Arnott over. Perhaps Cujo? They were all part of that amazing first round win in 1997. Hell - just bring in Todd Marchant - the scorer of the famous goal in OT.

I understand the game is in fun but I think a lot of Oiler fans are being blind about it purely because of their love for this team and its amazing history. If Mike Comrie can't come into training camp without a contract - Mark Messier shouldn't be able to come to an alumni/old timer's game until he is retired.

It amazes me I am the only one - other than Habs fans - to see this. Sheesh.
How many Habs fans are commenting on this? I saw, like, 5 posts against him playing.

This is a game to celebrate the dynasty years. If you were an intergral part of that era, you should be invited. Mess obviously falls into that category. All those other people you mentioned have nothing to do with the glory days.

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11-18-2003, 10:29 AM
  #23
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I find this debate to be pretty funny. I am also a little annoyed with the comment on the Habs thread about Edmonton not having much tradition.

This game is not an NHL production, it wasn't chosen by a fan ballot, a charity, big wigs in the NHL front office, the NHLPA or a result of meetings between the owners from all 30 teams trying to garner more interest in the game and history of hockey.

It was spear headed by the Edmonton Oilers. It is being done to celebrate OUR 25 years in the league and one of the great all time NHL teams. Montreal was invited by us, to take part in something special for OUR team. To help celebrate our team by icing a team of their celebrated greats.

Why is it such a big deal that one of our great players is still winding down his NHL career in the process of coming back for the heritage game. The game means nothing more than having the opportunity to reflect on OUR team and Mark Messier was a part of that team. Montreal is only a participant.

I find it funny how all of a sudden fans and experts from all over are debating this event as if the Oilers shouldn't even be involved. People have totally lost sight of the fact that this is an Edmonton event - not NHL event.

That's my rant for the day.

As far as Messier playing or not, I think the only people he has to be accountable to is the Rangers and the Ranger fans. As much as I would like to see him here playing, if the tables were turned and it was Ryan Smyth going to play in an alumni game, I wouldn't be too thrilled simply because as a professional he needs to be accountable to the team that is paying him. And that means not risking injury - no matter how slim the possibilities are - by participating in an event like this.

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Old
11-18-2003, 10:59 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I find this debate to be pretty funny. I am also a little annoyed with the comment on the Habs thread about Edmonton not having much tradition.

This game is not an NHL production, it wasn't chosen by a fan ballot, a charity, big wigs in the NHL front office, the NHLPA or a result of meetings between the owners from all 30 teams trying to garner more interest in the game and history of hockey.

It was spear headed by the Edmonton Oilers. It is being done to celebrate OUR 25 years in the league and one of the great all time NHL teams. Montreal was invited by us, to take part in something special for OUR team. To help celebrate our team by icing a team of their celebrated greats.

Why is it such a big deal that one of our great players is still winding down his NHL career in the process of coming back for the heritage game. The game means nothing more than having the opportunity to reflect on OUR team and Mark Messier was a part of that team. Montreal is only a participant.

I find it funny how all of a sudden fans and experts from all over are debating this event as if the Oilers shouldn't even be involved. People have totally lost sight of the fact that this is an Edmonton event - not NHL event.

That's my rant for the day.

As far as Messier playing or not, I think the only people he has to be accountable to is the Rangers and the Ranger fans. As much as I would like to see him here playing, if the tables were turned and it was Ryan Smyth going to play in an alumni game, I wouldn't be too thrilled simply because as a professional he needs to be accountable to the team that is paying him. And that means not risking injury - no matter how slim the possibilities are - by participating in an event like this.
I agree completely. Mess isn't coming back to beat up on the Habs, he's coming back to repay an organization that he was a big part of for 12 years (his words, not mine.) He's an Edmontonian, and he won 5 cups here. He's also in the twilight of his career. As a fan who grew up watching the great teams I think it is a nice tip of the hat to the Oilers and to hockey fans in general.

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Old
11-18-2003, 03:08 PM
  #25
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Unbelieveable...

The biggest reason why Messier should play?

It's NOT an oldtimers nor retired players game! It's an ALUMNI game. Mess is an Oiler alumni, therefore he's eligible.

Sheesh...

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