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Old
04-04-2012, 08:09 AM
  #151
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
Its pretty obvious that Muller agrees that the lineup is too soft. He moved joslin to forward just to slot into the 4th line. He's pretty much said he isnt overly happy about how the bottom six is set up. IMO he'd like a big winger to slot next to Sutter and Dwyer, and he like to completely rebuild the fourth line wingers. Unfortunately if the Canes sign a 1st line winger, one of those spots is going to go to Larose.
Sutter-LaRose-Bowman would be a good 3rd line, IMO.

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04-04-2012, 08:16 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Sutter-LaRose-Bowman would be a good 3rd line, IMO.
I dont neccesarily disagree but that pushes Larose and his 1.9 million to the fourth line which Muller wants to get bigger and more physical. Would they trade Chad before paying a guy that much to play fourth line minutes?

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04-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
I dont neccesarily disagree but that pushes Larose and his 1.9 million to the fourth line which Muller wants to get bigger and more physical. Would they trade Chad before paying a guy that much to play fourth line minutes?
Except that's the THIRD line...

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04-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #154
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Our 4th line sucks as currently constituted. I have never seen a line get pinned deep against other teams 4th line as this group. Most of Brent's points are on the PP and Stewart scored more than a couple of his goals filling in the top 9.

You are right though, Neil is going to throw those hits no matter who is on the 4th line. Some other chippy guys who go after Skinner and Staal with cheap stuff might be a different story.
Brent and Stewart are 3rd scoring line quality guys. We just don't have a 3rd scoring line. The addition of Joslin to that line has been kind of a joke.

But as I said, 17 minutes a night combined, and 35 points. That's even strength. It doesn't take into account Brent's power play contributions. And with that level of production, which is on par with someone like Tlusty. That some of it was done on a higher line by Stewart doesn't take away from the fact these guys are not too shabby.

Of course, you throw a lousy defenseman on their wing, and things are less good. But throughout the year, I think they've been a bright spot.

Stewart in particular has been a lot better than people realize I think. Again, if we had a 3rd scoring line, I think he'd have had a solid year, instead of just doing a real good job with the time he's gotten.

As for Bowman/Larose/Sutter...It's 3 of almost the same player offensively. Larose and Sutter make a good pair, but you need the skilled goal scorer to create the offensive zone plays. Sutter needs his Justin Williams like Brindy had. Bowman is just lousy.

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04-04-2012, 09:07 AM
  #155
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All this talk about Erik Cole, Ray Whitney, Andrew Ladd, Matt Cullen and Dennis Seidenberg has just made me sad. I also watched the entire game last night and was happy with the way we played, and proud of the guys for not giving up. But I also realized that our team isn't very "likable" right now. I know we all have our favorites, but generally speaking, the team really has no personality. It just seemed very bland and boring.

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04-04-2012, 09:14 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Except that's the THIRD line...
Ah i misread that. I still like Dwyer on that third line much better than Larose. He's much better defensively than Larose IMO. He fits that role. Its nice to have a coach that believes in roles on the team and not just drawing guys from a hat every night.

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04-04-2012, 09:18 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
Ah i misread that. I still like Dwyer on that third line much better than Larose. He's much better defensively than Larose IMO. He fits that role. Its nice to have a coach that believes in roles on the team and not just drawing guys from a hat every night.
You see, I disagree. I DO like his chemistry with Sutter, but he's a 4th line caliber player that won't contribute to ANYTHING on the offensive side of the ice. To me, this is why Sutter's been underwhelming offensively this year.

I say throw Dwyer on the 4th line and 6 or 7 even strength minutes a night, then have him on the first PK unit with Sutter, getting another couple of minutes. That way, you get the best of both worlds.

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04-04-2012, 09:41 AM
  #158
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LaRose is still on the 1st line though, right?

I'm not the only one who hopes LaRose is packaged into a deal to bring a quality player back this way over the summer.

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04-04-2012, 09:44 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Brent and Stewart are 3rd scoring line quality guys. We just don't have a 3rd scoring line. The addition of Joslin to that line has been kind of a joke.

But as I said, 17 minutes a night combined, and 35 points. That's even strength. It doesn't take into account Brent's power play contributions. And with that level of production, which is on par with someone like Tlusty. That some of it was done on a higher line by Stewart doesn't take away from the fact these guys are not too shabby.

Of course, you throw a lousy defenseman on their wing, and things are less good. But throughout the year, I think they've been a bright spot.

Stewart in particular has been a lot better than people realize I think. Again, if we had a 3rd scoring line, I think he'd have had a solid year, instead of just doing a real good job with the time he's gotten.

As for Bowman/Larose/Sutter...It's 3 of almost the same player offensively. Larose and Sutter make a good pair, but you need the skilled goal scorer to create the offensive zone plays. Sutter needs his Justin Williams like Brindy had. Bowman is just lousy.
Bowman has 12 ES points in 37 games. Stewart has 18 in 75. How exactly has Bowman been lousy and Stewart better than people think?

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04-04-2012, 09:45 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
You see, I disagree. I DO like his chemistry with Sutter, but he's a 4th line caliber player that won't contribute to ANYTHING on the offensive side of the ice. To me, this is why Sutter's been underwhelming offensively this year.

I say throw Dwyer on the 4th line and 6 or 7 even strength minutes a night, then have him on the first PK unit with Sutter, getting another couple of minutes. That way, you get the best of both worlds.
I understand what you are saying about the offense but if Muller wants to run an even strength shutdown line he cant simply swap Swyer with Larose. IMO they aren't equals in their own zone. In a perfect world we would have a third line winger with Larose's scoring ability but with defensive ability closer to Dwyer so we wouldnt be hamstringing Sutter's offensive skills. We get one piece of that with Bowman if he continues to grow.

I guess i just view Larose as a quality spare part that doesnt have a defined role here under Muller.

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04-04-2012, 09:52 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
You see, I disagree. I DO like his chemistry with Sutter, but he's a 4th line caliber player that won't contribute to ANYTHING on the offensive side of the ice. To me, this is why Sutter's been underwhelming offensively this year.

I say throw Dwyer on the 4th line and 6 or 7 even strength minutes a night, then have him on the first PK unit with Sutter, getting another couple of minutes. That way, you get the best of both worlds.
Or....we revisit my illogical and improbable idea of signing both Parise and Parenteau from a week or so ago on a different thread

Tlusty and Bowman re-signed, obviously

EhStew isn't getting his chance here, dump him off somewhere or something. Nodl is decent/good at what he does, but we have enough of those types of players already. Put him on waivers and see if he gets snatched? Joslin back to the press box.

Roll with a clear #1 line, Skins & Finns, 3rd line that has less of a burden on it defensively and has a greater chance of being a threat offensively, 4th line that has good defensive skill that won't get killed when it steps on the ice.

Forwards:
Parise-Staal-Parenteau/Tlusty
Skinner-Jokinen-Ruutu
Bowman-Sutter-Tlusty/Parenteau
LaRose-Brent-Dwyer

I would prefer to put Parenteau up with Staal, but some posters objected to having Tlusty moved back down to the third line. I see Tlusty as a good fit in either place. Don't know about how good Parenteau's defense is though.

Defense:
Re-sign Allen or get somebody else to pair with Gleason

Gleason-Allen/other
Harrison-Faulk
Pitkanen-McBain

PK groupings as follows with short shifts:
Sutter/Dwyer
Brent/LaRose
Staal/Parise (offensive threat, maybe)
Jokinen/Tlusty (I'd like Tlusty in the PK rotation, and Muller seems to like Jokinen out there)
Use the defense in the pairings they're already on


PP groupings as follows

Parise-Parenteau-Tlusty
Staal(taking faceoffs, obviously)-Faulk

Skinner-Jokinen-Ruutu
Pitkanen-McBain

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04-04-2012, 11:31 AM
  #162
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Parenteau isnt going to sign here unless he is guaranteed top 6 minutes. though we would get to see his agent tweet about him all year. And are we sure he is better than the guys on our roster now?? Its fairly easy to accrue points playing with Moulson and Tavares

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04-04-2012, 11:37 AM
  #163
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It's wishful thinking, but we should be more realistic when we're trying to think about next year's lineups. I'd love to be completely wrong on this but I don't see Parise signing here

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04-04-2012, 02:21 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
Parenteau isnt going to sign here unless he is guaranteed top 6 minutes. though we would get to see his agent tweet about him all year. And are we sure he is better than the guys on our roster now?? Its fairly easy to accrue points playing with Moulson and Tavares
Parenteau only spends 50% of his TOI with Moulson and Tavares.

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04-04-2012, 02:25 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by 2 12 oz Drinks View Post
It's wishful thinking, but we should be more realistic when we're trying to think about next year's lineups. I'd love to be completely wrong on this but I don't see Parise signing here
So...Semin?

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04-04-2012, 02:46 PM
  #166
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2 12 oz Drinks: I never claimed that Parise will definitely sign here. Hence the "illogical and improbable" part at the beginning of my post.

Now the rest of my post:

As far as Parenteau goes, I think that the theoretical lineup of Parise-Staal is more inviting than/equally inviting to Moulson-Tavares.
We could lure Parenteau here saying that he'll start out as top-line material with Parise-Staal, but indicate that he needs to play worthy of being there. Spefically mention Tlusty as the guy he's competing with. If Parenteau doesn't perform up to expectations/better than Tlusty, it sucks for him. He lost the spot that he was initially given, and he'll have to earn it back. Roster competition is a good thing for the players, they'll have to strive harder to prove themselves.

I don't know how good Parenteau really is, though I doubt anyone really does. I know Islanders fans were complaining about him for a good portion of last year. I know that he plays a good portion of his time with Moulson-Tavares at both ES and on the PP, which may or may not attribute to why he earns the points that he does. I also know that he and Okposo were switched in the lineup at a few points in the season. But what I do know is that our prospects aren't quite setting the world on fire in their NHL stints so far (Dalpe, Boychuk specifically).

If one of Dalpe/Boychuk/whomever does impress JR/Muller to the point that they need to be on the roster, we could always explore the avenue of trading somebody for something else. Maybe trade a defenseman + forward for a better defenseman or something. Who knows?

Then again, this is all a moot point with the contracts we do have right now (EhStew, Nodl) that aren't thrown out the window and how much PK/the minority owners want to shed out in salary for the coming year.

If in some bizarre occurrance (that hints towards the apocalypse) all the pieces fall into place, I think it might work.

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04-04-2012, 02:49 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Parenteau only spends 50% of his TOI with Moulson and Tavares.
What is the percentage of his point total when one of those 2 are on the ice? The stat you quote doesnt mean much without the context of when his points are scored

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04-04-2012, 03:16 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
What is the percentage of his point total when one of those 2 are on the ice? The stat you quote doesnt mean much without the context of when his points are scored
33 of Parenteau's 67 points have had Tavares also figuring in on the goal.

27 of 67 have Moulson figuring in.

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04-04-2012, 03:29 PM
  #169
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2 12 oz Drinks: I never claimed that Parise will definitely sign here. Hence the "illogical and improbable" part at the beginning of my post.
I didn't mean you specifically, I just meant in general. I've just been seeing it a lot

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04-04-2012, 03:34 PM
  #170
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I didn't mean you specifically, I just meant in general. I've just been seeing it a lot
Because it's going to happen, damn it!






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04-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #171
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The presentation you should present to Parise:

1. We're going to pay you about 2 million more per year than any other offer. Because that's the only way you'll consider us.
2. You'll be playing with Eric Staal and in front of Cam Ward. You've played the Canes in the playoffs, you've seen what they can do. Even Brodeur was giving props to Ward.
3. We've got great young players like Skinner, Sutter and Faulk.
4. We've got great coaches that you're familiar with, like Muller and your bestest buddy MacLean.
5. We've got a passionate fanbase. Again, you've played the Canes in the playoffs, you've seen it live.

So..yeah. Pick us please:


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04-04-2012, 07:11 PM
  #172
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04-04-2012, 07:13 PM
  #173
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Then Detroit ruins everything with their 1 reason: We're the Detroit Red Wings.

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04-04-2012, 07:14 PM
  #174
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04-04-2012, 07:18 PM
  #175
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Despite being the victim of too much daydreaming about Parise somehow magically signing here myself, does anyone happen to know how he and MacLean got along in NJ?

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