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04-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
Not arguing at all that Halischuk shouldn't be in the line up! With the minutes he has played this season and the goals it is impressive. Every time he is scratched I feel badly for him, because he certainly seems to make the " most of his minutes"
Other than the last game Wilson played on March 27 th, his defensive end coverage was still much improved from last season.
Just saying there has to be more going on than his play. Something is not adding up.
Failing to accept coaching tends to upset the coaches. He doesn't fit on the 4th line and who of the wingers for the top three lines is Wilson outperforming in all areas of the game? Not Erat, AK, Radulov, Hornqvist, and SK is a more rounded player. If any of those players is out, both Halischuk and Bourque make a strong case to fill the 3rd line winger role over Wilson right now.

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04-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #27
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It's not even like Trotz system is tough for a winger to play, it's not at all. No coach wants turnovers at the blueline though.

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04-04-2012, 02:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
He must of really done something because the following is what i have come up with and i do not see any reason why he could not be used on the 4th line as a winger.
If it was Wilson-Goose-Smith or Wilson-Goose-Halischuck. You could argue that is the most dangerous 4th line in the NHL. Even if Wilson and Smith have D issues Goose can play conservative D hockey like Leggy does with AK and Rads.
This is what I was thinking when I made the Yip/Wilson comment.

Wilson-Goose-Hali > Yip-Goose-Smith/Tootoo. Run 4 scoring lines rather than 3 plus one minute-muncher. Yes, it is possible for Yip & Goose to pot one, just not likely or much of a threat. With our depth, it could help to take advantage of the opponent's third pairing d.

Interesting thoughts with Wison not buying into the system along with cockyness. Wilson's in the doghouse for a reason though. I guess he made his own bed.....

Agree with glenngineer too. More often than not, Rads skates his hardest when he's going back into our defensive zone.


Last edited by preds1: 04-04-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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04-04-2012, 02:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
I hate they cannot meet halfway and a 7th overall pick is sitting the bench for probably his 2nd playoffs.
Me too. Like I mentioned earlier, I think Trotzy would be more lenient with him if he was putting up Erat, Legwand, or Fisher numbers...but he's not. And all of the aforementioned are good two-way guys.

There's no reason why a guy of Wilson's talent can't put up the numbers of those three...and I think that's why he's in the doghouse. Wilson shouldn't be on the lower lines with the grinders and hustle guys. He should be top 6...but to be top 6 in Trotz's system, you must have at least some two way ability.

Meeting half way would be if Wilson invests a little more time on the defensive aspects, and upping his offensive production to the level where we all know it could be.

Right now, he's meeting halfway with our lineup...which is killing him. He's not producing enough to play with the top 6, and he's not enough of a grinder/forechecker for the bottom 6.

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04-04-2012, 02:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by drake744 View Post
i try to support wilson as much as possible but how hard is it to play the way your coach wants you to? If playing in a game means you tighten up defensively a little bit, then freaking tighten up defensively a little bit. I just don't get it.
+1 ..

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04-04-2012, 02:46 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
I hate they cannot meet halfway and a 7th overall pick is sitting the bench for probably his 2nd playoffs.
what the heck??

meet halfway?

this isnt a negotiation.... plent of other offensively talented players have learned to be defensively responsible and to play well without the puck... his draft position doesnt entitle him to neglect part of his game that almost every successfuly pro hockey player learns to do at some point

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04-04-2012, 02:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
It's not even like Trotz system is tough for a winger to play, it's not at all. No coach wants turnovers at the blueline though.
which is why Tootoo is benched, as well.

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04-04-2012, 02:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
what the heck??

meet halfway?

this isnt a negotiation.... plent of other offensively talented players have learned to be defensively responsible and to play well without the puck... his draft position doesnt entitle him to neglect part of his game that almost every successfuly pro hockey player learns to do at some point
I agree. As someone mentioned earlier, even Radulov does it.

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04-04-2012, 03:17 PM
  #34
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The thing is, players aren't just playing for the coaches, they're playing for one another. If Wilson doesn't hustle because he's mad at Trotz or just doesn't want to follow what's expected of him, he hurts the other players more than anything. I think that's what's gotten lost in this as well. Trotz wants everyone to buy into the team concept and not one person is more important than any other. If you don't take of your business, someone else will come into the lineup and do it the way I ask and also their teammates can depend on him.

While I think Wilson is a better offensive player than Yip, Yip is dependable in what he brings on the ice. That's what Trotz is after. He knows if he puts Yip out, he's going to hustle and play two way hockey. Trotz cannot depend on Wilson for that and if he has to bench him, so be it. He's doing it for the team, not because he dislikes Wilson and Wilson has to realize this is a profession, it's not personal and he's acting like a kid and taking it personally. It's a shame because if he got it he'd make our third line extremely strong.

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04-04-2012, 03:18 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
what the heck??

meet halfway?

this isnt a negotiation.... plent of other offensively talented players have learned to be defensively responsible and to play well without the puck... his draft position doesnt entitle him to neglect part of his game that almost every successfuly pro hockey player learns to do at some point
Most hockey players learn to do it before they reach their early 20s.

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04-04-2012, 03:23 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The thing is, players aren't just playing for the coaches, they're playing for one another. If Wilson doesn't hustle because he's mad at Trotz or just doesn't want to follow what's expected of him, he hurts the other players more than anything. I think that's what's gotten lost in this as well. Trotz wants everyone to buy into the team concept and not one person is more important than any other. If you don't take of your business, someone else will come into the lineup and do it the way I ask and also their teammates can depend on him.

While I think Wilson is a better offensive player than Yip, Yip is dependable in what he brings on the ice. That's what Trotz is after. He knows if he puts Yip out, he's going to hustle and play two way hockey. Trotz cannot depend on Wilson for that and if he has to bench him, so be it. He's doing it for the team, not because he dislikes Wilson and Wilson has to realize this is a profession, it's not personal and he's acting like a kid and taking it personally. It's a shame because if he got it he'd make our third line extremely strong.
What did he do/say that makes him acting like a kid taking it personally?

All I heard was him say he was disappointed to not be out there and he will work hard to get back on the roster.

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04-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
What did he do/say that makes him acting like a kid taking it personally?

All I heard was him say he was disappointed to not be out there and he will work hard to get back on the roster.
He didn't listen to what his superiors wanted him to do. He basically has played his style of play when the coaches are asking him to do something different. When asked to change, he continued to do what he wanted to do. That's what kids do, they don't listen to what people ask them to do. That's him taking it personally and doing what he wants as opposed to what's best for the team. Kids do things because they think it benefits them more than anything else. Unfortunately in team sports people have to buy into the team concept before you can accomplish anything great. It appears most of the players on this team have bought into what Trotz is selling, some aren't and the ones that are sitting on a regular basis are probably the ones that aren't buying into the team concept.

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04-04-2012, 03:46 PM
  #38
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Now I am usually the first one to the hate on wilson wagon but I don't see huge amount of difference between him and yip in the d zone, at least not enough to warrant him being benched in favor of yip. I think this is much more a stubborn young guy who wants to play for himself and has maybe been a ***** in practice. I said in the offseason I was worried about their relationship

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04-04-2012, 03:59 PM
  #39
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Now I am usually the first one to the hate on wilson wagon but I don't see huge amount of difference between him and yip in the d zone, at least not enough to warrant him being benched in favor of yip. I think this is much more a stubborn young guy who wants to play for himself and has maybe been a ***** in practice. I said in the offseason I was worried about their relationship
now we're throwing Yip along with Wilson in the same sentence, think about that for a second ... Wilson SHOULD be a top 6/9 forward right now, yet he's missing defensive responsibility, ergo he's being benched for his lack of hustle back and recognizing which man to take on odd man rushes or completely failing to recognize a crashing dman (kings game, I believe)

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04-04-2012, 04:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
He didn't listen to what his superiors wanted him to do. He basically has played his style of play when the coaches are asking him to do something different. When asked to change, he continued to do what he wanted to do. That's what kids do, they don't listen to what people ask them to do. That's him taking it personally and doing what he wants as opposed to what's best for the team. Kids do things because they think it benefits them more than anything else. Unfortunately in team sports people have to buy into the team concept before you can accomplish anything great. It appears most of the players on this team have bought into what Trotz is selling, some aren't and the ones that are sitting on a regular basis are probably the ones that aren't buying into the team concept.
If he was this big of an issue than why was he in 82 games last year and 67 this year? He played almost every game this year until he did not produce for 6 games in March and he is suddenly benched. If he is such a risk then how did the Preds finish 5th in the West last year and are looking at 4th or 5th this year?

I think some of what Trotz is saying about is smoke. How did it turn South right before the playoffs last year and again this year? Something is not adding up.

Its obvious Trotz way of scratching and tossing him to different lines is not working so why does he not think outside of the box and try something different with him. Not all human adults respond to things the same way.

If he did what you said in the first three sentences than why did Trotz allow him to play in 82 games last year and 62 this year just getting sent to the bench March 27?

What coach would allow what you said in the first 3 lines for 82 games last year and up until March 27 of this year?


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 04-04-2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: merged
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04-04-2012, 06:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by JR303 View Post
At face value, I don't disagree. But, as has been said, each position on the team has a specific role to be filled. Yip is filling his role better than Wilson is his at the moment. Borque better than Tootoo, Also, I suppose you could even say that Halischuck is filling it better than Wilson, too.

Wilson is young, sounds somewhat cocky, and wants to be a top 6 winger. He's got time to grow into that, but at this time, we have players better suited, more rounded and more responsible to play those roles. He doesn't seem to want the spots that he is being beaten out for by grinders, and that's his prerogative, but unless he decides to round out his game, and buy into the system, he won't get many minutes. Hate it for him, but that's the way it goes in the NHL.

Also, I mentioned in the off-season that if I was Tootoo, I'd learn real, real quick how to kill penalties. Right now I still feel that way. I like him and all, but right now, there just aren't enough dimensions to his game to justify him being in there. And I'm one of the guys that thinks his role should be utilized, especially in the PO's.


ETA: TMI is right. Refusal to play the system is detrimental to the team, and if he won't do it, there are capable guys sitting beside him who will.

Couldn't have said it better.

I hate it for Wilson, he has so much potential. But like you said, other guys on the team are filling their roles better than he is right now, and he doesn't belong on the 4th line.

Agree on Toots as well. Others are starting to out-perform him at his own role too, and the fact that he's not a PKer definitely hurts him.

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04-04-2012, 06:18 PM
  #42
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Come on Wilson, get your head out of your arse. You are one of the few people in the world gifted enough to get paid millions of dollars to play the game you love. You could be on of the best players on these team instead of a healthy scratch if you just buy in and play both ways. I don't care if you don't agree with what he's saying, suck it up, get on the ice, and prove that you know how to play hockey. Right now, the team has to come before ego.

This kid can be so good one day if he and Trotz can get along.

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04-04-2012, 06:51 PM
  #43
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For the playoffs,

Toots > Yip

Halischuk > Smith.


Wilson can be inserted for a spark to wake up one of the vets or if there is an injury, same for Smith.




Frankly Yip sucks and Gaustad has been less impressive than advertised (not worth a 1st rd pick if all he is is an upgraded Smithson. Any line Gaustad is on immediately loses its offensive pop.)

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04-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
If he was this big of an issue than why was he in 82 games last year and 67 this year? He played almost every game this year until he did not produce for 6 games in March and he is suddenly benched. If he is such a risk then how did the Preds finish 5th in the West last year and are looking at 4th or 5th this year?

I think some of what Trotz is saying about is smoke. How did it turn South right before the playoffs last year and again this year? Something is not adding up.

Its obvious Trotz way of scratching and tossing him to different lines is not working so why does he not think outside of the box and try something different with him. Not all human adults respond to things the same way.

If he did what you said in the first three sentences than why did Trotz allow him to play in 82 games last year and 62 this year just getting sent to the bench March 27?

What coach would allow what you said in the first 3 lines for 82 games last year and up until March 27 of this year?
No one has an educated answer for the above ?'s ????

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04-04-2012, 10:12 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
No one has an educated answer for the above ?'s ????
I'm not going to read the whole thing again, and as far as this year goes, I think he was giving him multiple chances, but Wilson just ended up showing immaturity.

Last season, it was, and Trotz mentioned this more than once, there just wasn't another body to put in his place. We had too many injuries last year or he would have been in the pressbox then, too.

Learning the ropes and becoming a full-time NHL player takes time. Everyone does it at a different pace. Wilson will get there. But, if he's going to continue to say things like "I'm not going to change my game" after being scratched, he will always have his minutes cut.

Surely this is enough.

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04-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #46
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I just find it extremely crazy we went from majority of the board (at least 75%) saying "wilson has been probably our most consistent forward and will be a stud"... to ... "he lacks detail to his game, he needs improve away from the puck, immature, ect".. sorry but that don't add up imo.

I think maybe him and trotz got into it? who knows but I don't think wilson belongs on the 4th line (just not a fit) .. and if trotz cant justify him being on the 3rd line then I guess its a scratch again...


anyone else want to see a 2nd line of wilson - legwand - rads ?

erat fisher sk
wilson legwand radulov
hornqvist spaling ak
bourque/tootoo/smith gaustad halischuk/yip

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04-04-2012, 10:23 PM
  #47
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I'm not going to read the whole thing again, and as far as this year goes, I think he was giving him multiple chances, but Wilson just ended up showing immaturity.

Last season, it was, and Trotz mentioned this more than once, there just wasn't another body to put in his place. We had too many injuries last year or he would have been in the pressbox then, too.

Learning the ropes and becoming a full-time NHL player takes time. Everyone does it at a different pace. Wilson will get there. But, if he's going to continue to say things like "I'm not going to change my game" after being scratched, he will always have his minutes cut.

Surely this is enough.
Trotz gets paid to ice the best team possible from the healthy guys available. Right now, Wilson doesn't fit that criteria and statements like the one quoted above are indicative of his problem. It's not one of talent, it's one of work ethic and accepting coaching. He can change his game or he can not play, it really is that simple.

Wilson isn't eligible for arbitration so he holds little leverage in the RFA marketplace. The kid can grow up or he can watch from the pressbox.

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04-04-2012, 10:57 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
I just find it extremely crazy we went from majority of the board (at least 75%) saying "wilson has been probably our most consistent forward and will be a stud"... to ... "he lacks detail to his game, he needs improve away from the puck, immature, ect".. sorry but that don't add up imo.

I think maybe him and trotz got into it? who knows but I don't think wilson belongs on the 4th line (just not a fit) .. and if trotz cant justify him being on the 3rd line then I guess its a scratch again...


anyone else want to see a 2nd line of wilson - legwand - rads ?

erat fisher sk
wilson legwand radulov
hornqvist spaling ak
bourque/tootoo/smith gaustad halischuk/yip
Well said. Trotz said, not enough bodies...this year there were extra bodies if he felt so strongly. Also, in Feb. Trotz, on 3 separate occasions commented on how great the Spaling, Wilson, Tootoo line had played and even referred to Wilson and his detail.
( just saying, when asked by the media why a player is not playing, coaches have to say something.....)
I really find it interesting on how quickly hockey fans will turn on coaches, management, and players.

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04-04-2012, 11:00 PM
  #49
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Trotz has not proven that he can coach an offensive type player. All of the players other than Radulov and people forget that Trotz and Rad bumped heads then. Trotz coaches Erat and Legwand which are very good defensive players but very inconsistent offensive players. Legwand is not a top 6 offensive player and really doesn't belong on the line with Rad and Ak. But we don't have anybody else. Fisher is not fast enough for that line either. Erat is having his best year but at 6ml you expect 25 to 30 goals instead of 15-20. Wilson was the best offensive player in the first half of the season and Trotz constantly moved him around from the Legwand and Hornqvist line to the checking line of Spaling and Tootoo. Wilson like Dumont of the previous two years is now the whipping boy. Wilson can be a 30 goal scorer but not with Trotz as his coach. Trotz has his favorites and it doesn't matter what they do they play along and they get ice time. Trotz thinks defense first and every line if it was up to Trotz then every line would have a defensive player on it. Which that is why we are inconsistant offensive team. Sk went through period of not scoring but his lineup status didn't change. Wilson has offensive talent and I was hoping it was going to be here but I don't think he'll survive. I expect him to be traded in the offseason. Trotz on the other hand is now under the gun. Will Yip perform during the playoffs. Because the other teams are going to gear up for the Rad line and the Fisher line and the free ice will be the 3rd and 4th lines just like it was during the Ducks series. I hope Trotz doesn't pull his mad genius mode again but he always does. Because now Suter and Weber are watching to see if you have the master plan.

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04-04-2012, 11:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
I just find it extremely crazy we went from majority of the board (at least 75%) saying "wilson has been probably our most consistent forward and will be a stud"... to ... "he lacks detail to his game, he needs improve away from the puck, immature, ect".. sorry but that don't add up imo.

I think maybe him and trotz got into it? who knows but I don't think wilson belongs on the 4th line (just not a fit) .. and if trotz cant justify him being on the 3rd line then I guess its a scratch again...


anyone else want to see a 2nd line of wilson - legwand - rads ?

erat fisher sk
wilson legwand radulov
hornqvist spaling ak
bourque/tootoo/smith gaustad halischuk/yip

I haven't noticed 3/4 people here saying Wilson has been consistent this year. I think earlier in the season he was more consistent than he had ever been but he has still had very inconsistent and frustrating stretches. Honestly his progression is frustrating we haven't seen the the natural uptick year to year in production like you usually see from young talented forwards like Wilson.


On a purely speculative note I could honestly see Wilson thinking everything should be handed to him and pouting when things don't go his way. Not saying that is what is happening just saying I could see it. He gives me that vibe.

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