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Cole and Max says no to tank 5-2 Habs

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Old
04-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #76
JohnLennon
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Seguin isn't really a good example, for one thing Boston would be a good team with or without him, second of all the player the Bruins flipped to rip off the Leafs and get him was a 5th pick. At this point even if we win all our remaining games, it's unlikely we will drop below 5th.

Second of all, even with multiple lotto picks, both Tampa and the Islanders are missing the playoffs again.

Third, even if we draft second, we aren't getting a can't miss prospect like Tavares or Stamkos. The biggest reason for wanting to get a better pick at this point for me is a greater chance to draft Yakupov, and even then it's going to come down to blind luck. The other three top forwards in this draft may be franchise players, but they also have bust potential. Sadly we aren't drafting Tavares.


In an ideal world we will lose the remaining games, but they will be close. I'm not saying a winning streak is the answer, but I'd rather see these guys finish the season with pride than get humiliated in the remaining games. These things do take their toll.

Chances are, no matter who we draft, the impact of that player on the team next year will be negligible at best.
I like the way you think. You reflect my opinions on the team now and in the future perfectly. I'd like to see the Habs play with passion and effort for the remainder of the season, knowing they have been down and out for awhile. Character means more to a team than anything.

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04-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Seguin isn't really a good example, for one thing Boston would be a good team with or without him, second of all the player the Bruins flipped to rip off the Leafs and get him was a 5th pick. At this point even if we win all our remaining games, it's unlikely we will drop below 5th.

Second of all, even with multiple lotto picks, both Tampa and the Islanders are missing the playoffs again.

Third, even if we draft second, we aren't getting a can't miss prospect like Tavares or Stamkos. The biggest reason for wanting to get a better pick at this point for me is a greater chance to draft Yakupov, and even then it's going to come down to blind luck. The other three top forwards in this draft may be franchise players, but they also have bust potential. Sadly we aren't drafting Tavares.


In an ideal world we will lose the remaining games, but they will be close. I'm not saying a winning streak is the answer, but I'd rather see these guys finish the season with pride than get humiliated in the remaining games. These things do take their toll.

Chances are, no matter who we draft, the impact of that player on the team next year will be negligible at best.
Are you seriously challenging that (unlikely to drop out of top 5)? Who was it who was calling us crazy for suggesting we get 5 pts in 3 games? I remember yesterday someone said this. This looks not only possible but probable (us winning at least, dunno about the other teams). We can easily take Carolina into OT and I highly doubt we lose to the Leafs (also none of us want to lose against the leafs, I think that's why losing tomorrow is so important).

If we FINISH second, we could still draft first. Probability. Anyway, that ship has sailed. We are now hoping for 3rd. One loss and it's ours irrespective of what others do. If we win, it will mean the last game could push us to 8th. We are not drafting anyone of importance (FWD) there. Timmins is good, but you cannot argue that picking 3rd is the same as 8th.

I see you do feel the same way about seeing the players play well, but "ideally" losing a game (Tbh, we only need to lose one game, we are not coming 2nd). I agree that we aren't getting a Stamkos or a Tavares, but in the top 3 (and remember this increases our chances of winning the lottery and I DO think Yakupov is a gamebreaker) you're getting a player who will almost certainly make us better and at the very least is an ASSET. The idea is to maximize the probability of drafting as high and drafting the player that Timmins thinks will help our organization. The fact that we are so low in the standings already makes it very easy for me to not care about a couple of meaningless wins. They are meaningless. They will not carry over. I'm glad some stats were padded, but as I said, after dealing with boston fans and just seeing that putrid logo everywhere for 5 days, I want to be able to build as strong a team as possible. A win like tonight is just a punch in the nuts. You will not care about it tomorrow. Had we lost, you'd probably wake up with a big smile knowing we were at least going to draft Galchenyuk or Forsberg. For now, the tension continues. When the playoffs start and we're out, do you want to at least have the comfort that we're drafting 3rd (maybe even 2nd with lottery win) or that we're drafting 8th. I assure you, a great draft position will get you through the tough months ahead. I'm really trying to appeal not to you specifically, but anyone still trumpetting about pride and how great it is to see this team show up after forgetting how many holes we have in our team that caused us to be so happy about a win that keeps us last in the conference.

Pleasssse Carolina. Pleeeeease!

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04-04-2012, 10:43 PM
  #78
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We'll pick 7th and Timmins will go for Brandon Gaunce with Galchenyuk still available...

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04-04-2012, 10:45 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
I like the way you think. You reflect my opinions on the team now and in the future perfectly. I'd like to see the Habs play with passion and effort for the remainder of the season, knowing they have been down and out for awhile. Character means more to a team than anything.
where was the character before tonight? Why are we in 15th? I thought we had TONS of character left over from game 7 of last season. In fact I would argue we had way more to look fwd to then than we do after beating the crappy lightning. Character can resume when we are not eliminated from the playoffs, but if you enjoy games 70-82 being about showing character after elimination from the postseason, I guess that's your cup of tea.

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04-04-2012, 11:02 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Plekanov View Post
We'll pick 7th and Timmins will go for Brandon Gaunce with Galchenyuk still available...
That would really be the icing on the cake for this crappy season.. Losing out on a possible 3rd pick in the last 3 games and getting the 7th pick.. Getting a top 3 pick would have been the silver lining for this disaster season.. Please don't screw this up now Habs.

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04-04-2012, 11:03 PM
  #81
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Fun fact: If Toronto lost both their remaining games while we won ours but dragged the Leafs game to OT/Shootouts. That loser point puts them ahead of us as they have the tie breaker. Massive trollage to be had.

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04-04-2012, 11:33 PM
  #82
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But seriously, entertainment-wise this was one of my favourite games all year. It's not like we were going to out-tank Edmonton anyways

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04-04-2012, 11:49 PM
  #83
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one line score all the goals again .

relax guys we won't win the next 2 games

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04-05-2012, 12:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
I like the way you think. You reflect my opinions on the team now and in the future perfectly. I'd like to see the Habs play with passion and effort for the remainder of the season, knowing they have been down and out for awhile. Character means more to a team than anything.
The two of you are among my favourite posters on this board.

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04-05-2012, 12:06 AM
  #85
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I don't understand why the **** did we go back with Plekanec on the point AGAIN. Hasn't this experiment failed each and every single time? Bump Subban to the second wave for him? Really Randy? I can't wait for this gong show to end.

And I know he had an assist on the PP goal....
Had Plek played the point with Markov on the PP all year he would probably have close to 30 goals. He has a decent shot and Markov is a better passer than PK.

Plus, it's obvious that Markov has to play the left point so that's why him and PK had to be split.

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04-05-2012, 12:45 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
where was the character before tonight? Why are we in 15th? I thought we had TONS of character left over from game 7 of last season. In fact I would argue we had way more to look fwd to then than we do after beating the crappy lightning. Character can resume when we are not eliminated from the playoffs, but if you enjoy games 70-82 being about showing character after elimination from the postseason, I guess that's your cup of tea.
If we are as bad as the record indicates, we don't need to try to lose, it will happen naturally.

Letting the guys try and score goals won't change that Price is shut down for the season, we only have 1 line with scoring wingers, and the defense, a mess when healthy, is burned out. This was the first win in 5 games. If anything the tank has been "successful", you can't seriously expect them to force a fired up Cole or Pacioretty to sit out without reason.

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04-05-2012, 01:07 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I don't understand why the **** did we go back with Plekanec on the point AGAIN. Hasn't this experiment failed each and every single time? Bump Subban to the second wave for him? Really Randy? I can't wait for this gong show to end.

And I know he had an assist on the PP goal....
It failed before because Markov wasn't there.

Seriously, I like how our PP looked with the DD line with Markov and Plekanec on the point. You have 2 great passers in Markov and DD. Plekanec is almost a smart player and have a decent job and then you have two goal scorers.

It does suck for Subban though but I liked the experiment.

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Old
04-05-2012, 01:23 AM
  #88
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Forfeit final two games!

While it was great to see the performance of the DD line, can we please postpone further performances like that until next season????
The habs hopes at a top 3 draft pick are at peril if the team insists on winning the final two games.
While Molson and Savard probably are thinking 'Tank', Cunny is undoubtably thinking of his future after his short habs tenure and will be trying to pad his wins totals.

Per the NHL rules (see attachment) if a team refuses to go on the ice, the game is forfeited and a $500 fine is assessed. That is one strategy to protect lottery draft position: the team refuses to play.

Unfortunately, if the habs insist on trying to win, the only option left for us, the fans, is to salvage the final game and force a loss by rioting at the game vs Toronto. This is also cause for forfeit by the home team.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG‎ (80.1 KB, 15 views)

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Old
04-05-2012, 03:16 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
All I can say is that you've obviously lost your grasp on hockey. You mean to say you want them to tell the team to purposely lose? Pay the head coach 10,000+$ just to play the worse goalie? Some Habs fans have simply lost it.
Blame a system where the garbage teams win the top picks.

TBL got Stamkos by being pathetic.

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04-05-2012, 03:22 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
We got Mike Komisarek at 8th. Things are still looking up...

Edit: Mistake, we got Komi at 7th. Let's hope a team behind us doesn't win the lottery.
Reason why don't take d-man this high in draft

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04-05-2012, 04:23 AM
  #91
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Pacioretty's latest goal reminded me of his first career goal



He has the type of shot that makes him lethal at any spot on the ice. Even though Cole has more goals, I think pacioretty has the potential to score from a wider variety of areas because of that release.

As bad as this season has been from a win/loss perspective, it's been a joy to watch his line.


Last edited by Hackett: 04-05-2012 at 04:28 AM.
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04-05-2012, 05:35 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Pacioretty's latest goal reminded me of his first career goal



He has the type of shot that makes him lethal at any spot on the ice. Even though Cole has more goals, I think pacioretty has the potential to score from a wider variety of areas because of that release.

As bad as this season has been from a win/loss perspective, it's been a joy to watch his line.
Paciorettys type of scoring can dry up very easily. Blake had a 40 goal season and it was due to a huge amount of shooting. Pacioretty is doing something similar and I hope Cole can develop him into a player more willing to drive the net.

Coles skillset is dangerous and will never be not dangerous. He is a prototypical power forward which is rare and hard to teach. I love Pacioretty don't get me wrong but with the way he plays his size doesn't even matter because he doesn't use it, he might aswell be Ryder/Cammalleri if he is just going to shoot all day.

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04-05-2012, 06:04 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Paciorettys type of scoring can dry up very easily. Blake had a 40 goal season and it was due to a huge amount of shooting. Pacioretty is doing something similar and I hope Cole can develop him into a player more willing to drive the net.

Coles skillset is dangerous and will never be not dangerous. He is a prototypical power forward which is rare and hard to teach. I love Pacioretty don't get me wrong but with the way he plays his size doesn't even matter because he doesn't use it, he might aswell be Ryder/Cammalleri if he is just going to shoot all day.
It's the opposite actually. The top goal scorers are usually the players who have tons of shots. If they is an outlier on the list, you can probably exept him to regress the following season.

Jason Blake was a huge shot producer for a while but his 40 goals season isn't one where he shot more, it's the one where his shooting % was about 4-5% higher than his career average.

Right now Pacioretty's true talent in terms of shooting talent is pretty hard to know since he's been pretty unlucky at the beginning of his career. Looking at the last 2-3, I'd say he's probably a 11-13% wich is about a normal goalscorer convertion rate. On the other hand, Cole is currently shooting higher than you would expect him to. Though less than I thought before looking at it, I was surprised to see that this is the most shots he ever got in a season, that might be the effect of getting prime PP time wich he never got that much on the Hurricanes.

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Old
04-05-2012, 06:16 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Paciorettys type of scoring can dry up very easily. Blake had a 40 goal season and it was due to a huge amount of shooting. Pacioretty is doing something similar and I hope Cole can develop him into a player more willing to drive the net.

Coles skillset is dangerous and will never be not dangerous. He is a prototypical power forward which is rare and hard to teach. I love Pacioretty don't get me wrong but with the way he plays his size doesn't even matter because he doesn't use it, he might aswell be Ryder/Cammalleri if he is just going to shoot all day.
In Blake's 40 goal year, his shooting percentage was 13.1%, which is a significant outlier compared to his career average. Patches hasn't had the opportunity to really set a career average, but his shooting percentage is on par with last season's.

Also, your nuts if you don't think Patches doesn't drive the net. He just doesn't do it as much as Cole because its not his primary job on the line. He mans the slot to get rebounds and acts as Cole's trailer. They do reverse those roles a lot. That's why the line is so dangerous, both Cole and Patches are dangerous all over the ice and DD is so good at distributing the puck. There is no one way to cover that line, which is why they have pretty consistently put up goals this year.

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04-05-2012, 07:27 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
8th if someone behind us wins the lottery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
We got Mike Komisarek at 8th. Things are still looking up...

Edit: Mistake, we got Komi at 7th. Let's hope a team behind us doesn't win the lottery.

Oi,leave the first line on the bench Randy! I know management deserves the finger for how you've been treated but PLEASE

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04-05-2012, 07:33 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I don't understand why the **** did we go back with Plekanec on the point AGAIN. Hasn't this experiment failed each and every single time? Bump Subban to the second wave for him? Really Randy? I can't wait for this gong show to end.

And I know he had an assist on the PP goal....
You're like so last November.

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04-05-2012, 07:50 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Paciorettys type of scoring can dry up very easily. Blake had a 40 goal season and it was due to a huge amount of shooting. Pacioretty is doing something similar and I hope Cole can develop him into a player more willing to drive the net.

Coles skillset is dangerous and will never be not dangerous. He is a prototypical power forward which is rare and hard to teach. I love Pacioretty don't get me wrong but with the way he plays his size doesn't even matter because he doesn't use it, he might aswell be Ryder/Cammalleri if he is just going to shoot all day.
I disagree since Pacioretty's goals come from all over the ice. Top shooters tend to be good goal scorers...he has a good release and uses it whenever he can to score. This is something that's a positive. He does use his size to drive the net and hit...just not as often as Cole.
Pacioretty's goals: http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...474157&lang=en
Cole's goals: http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...474157&lang=en

It's possible that's what happened to Bourque's scoring though.

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Old
04-05-2012, 08:03 AM
  #98
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Bourque just has a good release though, he doesn't do any of the work to create scoring chances. He just capitalises on them when he gets them, except when he's playing for Montreal apparently. Maybe the nets are smaller when teams play against Montreal?

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04-05-2012, 08:51 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
It failed before because Markov wasn't there.

Seriously, I like how our PP looked with the DD line with Markov and Plekanec on the point. You have 2 great passers in Markov and DD. Plekanec is almost a smart player and have a decent job and then you have two goal scorers.

It does suck for Subban though but I liked the experiment.
Markov-Subban will not work...I've been saying this for awhile now

The Habs need to find a left handed point shot to pair up with Markov...

Our PP is most effective with Markov on the left point with a one-time threat on right point

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04-05-2012, 08:51 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by DrunkenHabz View Post
The 'tanking' in the title of every single PST gets old very fast. Not even funny anymore.
I still find it funny.

And we got Gauthier to tank for that!

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