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Cole-DD-Patch our best line in a long time...

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Old
04-02-2012, 11:49 PM
  #101
Teufelsdreck
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Am I the only one who thinks that the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole iline s probably the most vulnerable in the Habs own end? They don't seem to defend well. Their superior scoring serves to mask this flaw.

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04-03-2012, 01:56 AM
  #102
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Then why is he always matched up against opposing teams star players? If he's so soft, why is he not given soft minutes?

Why was he able to slow down Ovechkin and stop Crosby in the playoffs? Why has he been top4 in scoring on the team in every playoffs (except 08-09 were he was injured and played only 3 games)? If he was soft and didn't work hard wouldn't Crosby (the dude Plekanec checked for 7 games) have scored more than a point or two that series?

Why do people stop making sense and talk about Plekanec like he's a 36 year old over the hill veteran when in fact he's not even 30 signed on a long term deal?

Why are people not realizing he can help us win in the next 5-6 years and is part of the solution as one of the top5 two way center?

So many questions!
he's overshadowed by desharnais this year because of the success of that line but let's be honest that's a good second line

pleks has lacked steady wingers this season but he's still our premier centerman, shutdown pk role

i think we still lack that top line center but if we can lock in a winger that's dynamic enough that he contributes both ways it's not as necessary

and that can happen through the draft or if we could get a parise but that's never gonna happen so i'm bankin on the draft

tank tank tank

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04-03-2012, 02:30 AM
  #103
Habaneros
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now if we can only find another LINE that can stick together like this one!!!


Enough with the line Bingo, it can't be this hard, the Cole line proves it .

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04-03-2012, 10:37 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole iline s probably the most vulnerable in the Habs own end? They don't seem to defend well. Their superior scoring serves to mask this flaw.
This 100%. No other line screws up as much defensively as this one (well not including Nokelainen, of course). DD has been at fault for at least 6 goals in the last 3 weeks and when Patches experiences a scoring drought (currently), he disappears from the game completely.

Does their defensive faults deserve to be overshadowed by their offensive input? Yes, I think so. But when people claim that this line "can do it all" or is "great in the defensive zone", I start to question how stupid they really are.

Everyone needs to realize that once we get Gionta back and acquire an actualy top line wingers, Plekanec will go back to first line where he deserves to be (compared to our other centers).

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04-03-2012, 01:06 PM
  #105
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How about Perezhugin/Koivu/Kovalev

Zetnik/Koivu/Gilmour in the playoffs

Koivu and Kovy usualy played well together but aparantly they didn't like each other.

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04-04-2012, 10:15 PM
  #106
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2 games left...


AK27/Plek/AK46: 206 pts, 113 ES pts, +48, 222 hits

Cole/DD/Pacs: 182 pts, 135 ES pts, +20, 320 hits

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04-04-2012, 11:07 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
This 100%. No other line screws up as much defensively as this one (well not including Nokelainen, of course). DD has been at fault for at least 6 goals in the last 3 weeks and when Patches experiences a scoring drought (currently), he disappears from the game completely.

Does their defensive faults deserve to be overshadowed by their offensive input? Yes, I think so. But when people claim that this line "can do it all" or is "great in the defensive zone", I start to question how stupid they really are.

Everyone needs to realize that once we get Gionta back and acquire an actualy top line wingers, Plekanec will go back to first line where he deserves to be (compared to our other centers).
That bolded bit is so not true....Patches is still out there getting lots of shots and chances. He had around 50 shots during his current drought which averages almost 5 a game. I don't care which way you slice it...someone ripping off 5 shots a game is definitely not someone "completely disappearing". Get real.

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04-05-2012, 12:16 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole iline s probably the most vulnerable in the Habs own end? They don't seem to defend well. Their superior scoring serves to mask this flaw.
They play against the best line on the other team and are still "+" players, so I can live with that!

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04-05-2012, 12:26 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
They play against the best line on the other team and are still "+" players, so I can live with that!
What are their home/road splits.

I feel like they get positive matchups at home but on the road can be beaten by a line with a big centre (see what the Richards line did in the Friday Ranger game).

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04-05-2012, 12:29 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
They play against the best line on the other team and are still "+" players, so I can live with that!
That's usually the job of the line Plekanec is on, occasionally the one Eller heads up.

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04-05-2012, 12:33 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
They play against the best line on the other team and are still "+" players, so I can live with that!
Uhhh what? DD's line NEVER plays against the opposing top line. 90% of the time Plek's line plays against them, the rest is Eller's.

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04-05-2012, 12:38 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
What are their home/road splits.

I feel like they get positive matchups at home but on the road can be beaten by a line with a big centre (see what the Richards line did in the Friday Ranger game).
Pacioretty:
Home - 18 goals, 40 points, +13, 40 GP
Away - 14 goals, 23 points, -12, 37 GP

Cole:
Home - 19 goals, 34 points, +8, 40 GP
Away - 15 goals, 25 points, +2, 40 GP

Desharnais:
Home - 9 goals, 35 points, +16, 40 GP
Away - 7 goals, 25 points, -7, 39 GP

They're a line better built for beating up on a favourable matchup than taking it to the opponents best. That should be Plekanec's job if he had any support to do it. Which reflects how the coach uses them although Martin was a much more diligent line-matcher than Cunneyworth whose been known to just role 1,2,3,4 like Carboneau at times.

Fortunately Desharnais abilities as a two-way player have greatly increased over the course of the year. Even for next year though, the coach probably isn't doing his job if he's regularly out against anything better than a 2nd line.

The victim of the line matchup has mainly been Plekanec, with his own very notable home/away split.

Plekanec:
Home - 7 goals, 22 points, -17, 40 GP
Away - 9 goals, 30 points, 0, 39 GP

As you can see, his entire negative plus minus is from play at home where he gets hard matched the heavy minutes.


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 04-05-2012 at 01:05 AM.
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04-05-2012, 12:53 AM
  #113
Et le But
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I still don't get why there hasn't been any real experiment to split up the line while the team is "tanking" Until tonight Desharnais and Pacioretty were on a cold steak, shouldn't the coach have used that as an opportunity to mix things up?

We are talking three good players who eat up weak competition. It's great, but I want to see some balance next year.

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04-05-2012, 01:54 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I still don't get why there hasn't been any real experiment to split up the line while the team is "tanking" Until tonight Desharnais and Pacioretty were on a cold steak, shouldn't the coach have used that as an opportunity to mix things up?

We are talking three good players who eat up weak competition. It's great, but I want to see some balance next year.
It has become obvious that RC is lost. Either it's because he didn't know how to react to the pressure cooker that is Mtl, or he's simply clueless.
There's absolutely no reason for that line to have remained intact all this time. Not only has our ES play not improve, but those three guys also play together on the PP despite it failing miserably.

It just doesn't make any sense.

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04-05-2012, 02:40 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Uhhh what? DD's line NEVER plays against the opposing top line. 90% of the time Plek's line plays against them, the rest is Eller's.
Given that 50% of the games are on the road and the opponent's coach gets to pick his match ups, this might be the most ridiculous anti DD line comment I've seen on here in a while. It's in the extra chromosome range.

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04-05-2012, 02:49 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post

The victim of the line matchup has mainly been Plekanec, with his own very notable home/away split.

Plekanec:
Home - 7 goals, 22 points, -17, 40 GP
Away - 9 goals, 30 points, 0, 39 GP

As you can see, his entire negative plus minus is from play at home where he gets hard matched the heavy minutes.
Last season Plekanec's home/road splits:

Home - 16 goals, 33 points, +16, 39 GP
Away - 6 goals, 24 points, -8, 38 GP

The difference in home +/- from season to season is a staggering -33. Had Gionta remained healthy and the Cammalleri trade not been executed there would be no way for a variance of this magnitude to have occurred. At the very least, Plekanec's last half of the season can easily be written off as a fluky occurrence. Let's hope so, anyway.

Unrelated.... but thanks for your Corsi description in the other thread.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-05-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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04-05-2012, 03:20 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It has become obvious that RC is lost. Either it's because he didn't know how to react to the pressure cooker that is Mtl, or he's simply clueless.
There's absolutely no reason for that line to have remained intact all this time. Not only has our ES play not improve, but those three guys also play together on the PP despite it failing miserably.

It just doesn't make any sense.

DD/Cole/Pacioretty: 47 PP pts
Rest of our forwards (and that's including Plekanec): 28 PP pts

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04-05-2012, 03:22 AM
  #118
Rhiessan71
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I'm sorry but the Pleks/Kovalev/AK line was NOT as good as the DD/Cole/MaxPac line.
Pleks was the only one on that line that showed up every night and even then, by the last dozen games or so of that season he was burned out from handling all of the defensive coverage for his linemates.

The last time we had a line this good was in the old Koivu/Recchi/Savage or Corson line.
And none of these lines matches up to the Turgeon/Damphousse/Recchi line or the Muller/Damphousse/Bellows lines of the early and mid 90's.

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04-05-2012, 03:56 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Last season Plekanec's home/road splits:

Home - 16 goals, 33 points, +16, 39 GP
Away - 6 goals, 24 points, -8, 38 GP

The difference in home +/- from season to season is a staggering -33. Had Gionta remained healthy and the Cammalleri trade not been executed there would be no way for a variance of this magnitude to have occurred. At the very least, Plekanec's last half of the season can easily be written off as a fluky occurrence. Let's hope so, anyway.

Unrelated.... but thanks for your Corsi description in the other thread.
+/- can be pretty tricky because random swings in shooting/save tend to be a big deal in sample sizes like a single year. I'm pretty surprised the numbers worked out as clear as they did for Pleks vs top line. Interestingly, Gionta, who played Plekanec type minutes when he was in the lineup.

If I was the incoming GM one of my top priorities this summer would be to figure out how to get Plekanec the support he needs to be the 5 on 5 player he was last year. That shouldn't be too difficult, the old formula was Kostitsyn, Cammalleri and Hamrlik. Good even strength players but nothing spectacular. Gionta is a good start, so is having one of Subban or Markov behind him most nights. Its the left wing that's the issue, after trading away Cammalleri and Kostitsyn that went from the team's best position relative to NHL average to a situation were they have a single star in Pacioretty and then nothing good anywhere.

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04-05-2012, 04:08 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Prime Kovalev >> today Cole
Prime Plekanec >> today DD
AK > Pax

So, we can say the DD line is the best SINCE AK-Plek-Kovalev line.
Not in this world. Cole has done more for this team in one season than Kovalev did in all those years of gutless floating.

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04-05-2012, 04:38 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole iline s probably the most vulnerable in the Habs own end? They don't seem to defend well. Their superior scoring serves to mask this flaw.
For this line, the best defense has been to keep the puck in the offensive zone. The problems for this line tend to happen when they are bottled up in their defensive zone, especially Cole who has a hell of a time trying to chip pucks out. Its a flaw, but I certainly dont think it outweighs their contributions on the other side of the ice. They have been a joy to watch in an otherwise dismal season.

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04-05-2012, 05:06 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
I'm sorry but the Pleks/Kovalev/AK line was NOT as good as the DD/Cole/MaxPac line.
Pleks was the only one on that line that showed up every night
and even then, by the last dozen games or so of that season he was burned out from handling all of the defensive coverage for his linemates.

The last time we had a line this good was in the old Koivu/Recchi/Savage or Corson line.
And none of these lines matches up to the Turgeon/Damphousse/Recchi line or the Muller/Damphousse/Bellows lines of the early and mid 90's.
That's a load of bull... How can you score 84 pts and not try every game?!

For a long stretch they were playing against the other team's best line and they dominated them. I remember them shutting down the Spezza-Alfredsson-Heatley line... could DD-Patches-Cole do that?!?!?! They were getting much tougher opposition, Carbo never shielded them.

Plek wasn't near as polished as he is now, Kovalev was the driving force and AK46 was playing like a true power forward... they were better.

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04-05-2012, 05:26 AM
  #123
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That's a load of bull... How can you score 84 pts and not try every game?!

For a long stretch they were playing against the other team's best line and they dominated them. I remember them shutting down the Spezza-Alfredsson-Heatley line... could DD-Patches-Cole do that?!?!?! They were getting much tougher opposition, Carbo never shielded them.

Plek wasn't near as polished as he is now, Kovalev was the driving force and AK46 was playing like a true power forward... they were better.
That year was just a reminder of what a motivated kovalev can do. You can criticize kovalev for numerous stretches as a hab, but he put it all together in 07/08 including the playoffs.

When kovalev is going like that, he's as dynamic as anyone. It was a different type of line than the DD line, but if you put all those guys at the top of their game on one list, kovalev easily tops it. I'll take his line in 07/08 over this current line, and thats saying alot because I love the DD line too.

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04-05-2012, 09:15 AM
  #124
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That's a load of bull... How can you score 84 pts and not try every game?!

That's easy...by failing to score a single point in 28 of 82 games and by registering 1 shot or less on goal in 18 games.

Maybe you're young and don't have a true grasp on the enigma known as Alexie Kovalev.
This is a guy that could of easily had 100+ points a season every single season if he ever showed up for more than 3/4 - 2/3 of them.

He was a guy that could make anyone look stupid at any given time only IF he felt like it.
Put Cole's drive in Kovalev's body and you would of been looking at a perennial Art Ross winner.

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04-05-2012, 03:18 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
That's easy...by failing to score a single point in 28 of 82 games and by registering 1 shot or less on goal in 18 games.

Maybe you're young and don't have a true grasp on the enigma known as Alexie Kovalev.
This is a guy that could of easily had 100+ points a season every single season if he ever showed up for more than 3/4 - 2/3 of them.

He was a guy that could make anyone look stupid at any given time only IF he felt like it.
Put Cole's drive in Kovalev's body and you would of been looking at a perennial Art Ross winner.
You could say the same about other guys who score 80 points in a season. It seems like you're reaching on that one.

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