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Hank for Vezina and/or Hart

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Old
04-04-2012, 12:49 PM
  #51
Nyrvana
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This year more than any other proves what we already knew. Lundqvist is the best goalie in the world. Playing against 2 of the top 3 offensive teams 6 times each. Then Boston who's the other third team 4 times. If he doesn't win this year, I'll go crazy.

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04-04-2012, 12:53 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Yeah, forgot the Southeast completely. Whoops.

Still, Atlantic > any other division in the sport. By a mile.
The Atlantic is much like the NFC Beast (when the Beast had a good Iggles and Girls teams and with a Skins team that almost always took at least one game against each of their rivals).

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04-04-2012, 01:06 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
Weakest division? Based on goals differentials for the top 4? Southeast is combined -100, NW is -30. But maybe your are referring to something else?

Sorry for intruding, but got me wondering. As for the Vezina, both Lundqvist and Quick deserves to be in the discussion, with Lundqvist being the favourite. If Quick plays outstanding in the final 2 games, he probably have a better chance of getting it.
I notice you didn't dispute the scoring disparity. Pens/Flyers/Bruins are the top three scoring teams(Goals per Game).

Why wouldn't that factor in?

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04-04-2012, 02:11 PM
  #54
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I was merely questioning why the pacific would be considered the worst if you're going by goal differential. I don't know if there's anything to dispute when it comes G/G. Yes, there are more goals scored in the atlantic division (why that is can be discussed). Rangers also score more (223) than the Kings (187); one could argue that Quick therefore has played under more pressure because of the Kings anaemic offence.

I don't know if team stats (or in which division the goalie plays) should be the deciding factor though. Maybe it is, in which case there are arguments that can be made for both Lundqvist and Quick. Like I said, Lundqvist will probably get it and that's fine, they've both played outstanding hockey.

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04-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
I was merely questioning why the pacific would be considered the worst if you're going by goal differential. I don't know if there's anything to dispute when it comes G/G. Yes, there are more goals scored in the atlantic division (why that is can be discussed). Rangers also score more (223) than the Kings (187); one could argue that Quick therefore has played under more pressure because of the Kings anaemic offence.

I don't know if team stats (or in which division the goalie plays) should be the deciding factor though. Maybe it is, in which case there are arguments that can be made for both Lundqvist and Quick. Like I said, Lundqvist will probably get it and that's fine, they've both played outstanding hockey.
How does the teams' ability to score goals affect how the goalie plays?

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04-04-2012, 02:50 PM
  #56
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Like I said, I don't know if team stats should be a deciding factor (like wins, or GF/GA). To me it seems GAA and save percentage should be the two main stats to go by, regardless of division, team wins/points etc. If a goalie is carrying his team to such an extent, the hart trophy is probably more fitting.

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04-04-2012, 03:01 PM
  #57
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It's Hank's year. If he doesn't get this year, it's a scandal. He's been top 5 since he came to the NHL and he's only been getting better. This year, is HIS year. If Quick gets it, I'm done with the Pro-North American Awards..

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04-04-2012, 03:05 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
Like I said, I don't know if team stats should be a deciding factor (like wins, or GF/GA). To me it seems GAA and save percentage should be the two main stats to go by, regardless of division, team wins/points etc. If a goalie is carrying his team to such an extent, the hart trophy is probably more fitting.
The division he plays in should play a role. The Devils are in fourth place in the Atlantic with 98 points. LA is leading their division with 93 points. Sorry, but the Pacific is a fruitcake. Not as bad as the SE, but pretty bad nonetheless. If the islanders were in the Pacific, they'd be somewhere around 10th place, not in the bottom 3.

Not to mention that Hank sees Philly and Pittsburgh 6 times each. And the you've got the Bruins, and Devils added on. The leading scorer in the West, Henrik Sedin, is only 8th overall in the league as well.

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04-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topliner967 View Post
Yes, there are more goals scored in the atlantic division
Which would directly affect GAA.

Holding the Pens/Bruins/Flyers to 3 goals is keeping them below their season average, which is the opposite for anyone in the Pacific division.

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04-05-2012, 04:54 AM
  #60
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=392267

NHL ON TSN QUIZ: WHO WILL WIN THE VEZINA TROPHY?

Bob McKenzie: Jonathan Quick.
Marc Crawford: Henrik Lundqvist
Darren Dreger: Marc-Andre Fleury


OT edit:
further down in the article:
Who is the NHL's 2011-12 Ultimate Warrior?

McKenzie: Dan Girardi. When you talk about hitting and blocked shots in combination, nobody does it better. He's played more than 26 minutes per game on average and it's a hard job to play as the shutdown defenceman for John Tortorella but this guy does it.

Dreger: Ryan Callahan. He plays the way John Tortorella wants his entire team to play. He is the heart and soul of the Rangers.

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04-05-2012, 05:19 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoeticgoblin View Post
It's Hank's year. If he doesn't get this year, it's a scandal. He's been top 5 since he came to the NHL and he's only been getting better. This year, is HIS year. If Quick gets it, I'm done with the Pro-North American Awards..

Please. Quick has had a fantastic year. His numbers are right there with Hank's. If Quick was to take Vezina it'd be well deserved. Take off your homer goggles.

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04-05-2012, 07:04 AM
  #62
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When do they announce the finalists for the trophies?

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04-05-2012, 07:14 AM
  #63
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I'll tell you what, as much as I'm pulling for Henrik to win it, I'm thinking Elliot/Halak sharing the award would probably be the most deserving winners. Combined, their numbers are pretty staggering.

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04-05-2012, 07:16 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I'll tell you what, as much as I'm pulling for Henrik to win it, I'm thinking Elliot/Halak sharing the award would probably be the most deserving winners. Combined, their numbers are pretty staggering.
Love how Elliot comes out of Ottowa known as scrub, and is now a Vezina finalist according to some. Ken Hitchcock for Vezina!

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04-05-2012, 07:22 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Love how Elliot comes out of Ottowa known as scrub, and is now a Vezina finalist according to some. Ken Hitchcock for Vezina!
"Some" people haven't been watching St. Louis games this year.

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04-05-2012, 07:24 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
"Some" people haven't been watching St. Louis games this year.
Their defense is second to none. That's for sure. Of course, no one will pay attention to the fact that both goalies were struggling before Hitchcock was hired.

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04-05-2012, 07:31 AM
  #67
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Well, it's not like Halak has no history. MTL 2009-10 26W 13L 5OTL .924%. Similar to this year - 25-12-7 .925%. Elliot's year throws it over the top, IMHO and he's played for some pretty bad defensive teams over the past few years. I doubt it'll happen, but combined they've been better than anyone else in the league by a considerable margin.

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04-05-2012, 07:36 AM
  #68
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Look at Mason's stats under Hitchcock. That says everything you need to know

Smith went from a whipping boy in Tampa to putting up excellent numbers in Pheonix. Bryz went from the Pheonix system where people saw him as a legit starter to Philly, where he has been atrocious. That's what playing in different systems will do.

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04-05-2012, 07:43 AM
  #69
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Bryz's stats have recovered somewhat (.908) but, you also have to remember that they've been Pronger-less for pretty much the entire year. I get where you're coming from, but even Torts' system preaches defensive hockey first. It's the foundation the club is built on.

I look at Mason's stats in 2009-10 (where Hitch got fired after ~60 games) and 2010-11 and they're pretty much identical. He had a good rookie year, but he's never duplicated that season. The guy seems lost.

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04-05-2012, 07:47 AM
  #70
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LA plays even more of a defensive system than the Rangers.

.908 is still pretty horrible for today's era. The fact that they're Pronger-less only further illustrates that he was a product of Tippett's system. And the Vezina is an individual award. Halak and Elliot will split the Jennings.

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04-05-2012, 07:57 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko View Post
Please. Quick has had a fantastic year. His numbers are right there with Hank's. If Quick was to take Vezina it'd be well deserved. Take off your homer goggles.
Where did I say that Quick had a bad year? I'm just saying that this is the first year that he's even up there, Hank has been in the discussion for years now. + He's had those magic moments this year that are almost a "must have" for an NHL award (penalty shot in the WC etc.). Quick has had a great year, but not better than Hank. Did LA win their conference solely (almost) because of him? Nope.

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04-05-2012, 12:54 PM
  #72
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if you look at stats alone, Quick is probably the closest competitor and by close, he's right up there with Hank. While it'd still be a shock to use if Hank doesn't win, we shouldn't ignore the season Quick is having.

Hank <---> Quick
W 39 <---> 35
GAA 1.93 <---> 1.89
SV% .931 <---> .931
SO 8 <---> 10

The untracked stats
L 17 <---> 21
OTL 5 <---> 11
pts/total possible pts 83/122 (68%) <---> 81/134 (60%)

Halak and Elliot have to be a lock for the Jennings Award

edit: more stats to emphasize this is an individual award and not a team award.
NYR shots blocked 1176
LA shots blocked 990

surprisingly the top shot blocking teams?
FLA 1403
NYI 1379
MTL 1344
EDM 1305


Last edited by n8: 04-05-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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04-05-2012, 12:57 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoeticgoblin View Post
Where did I say that Quick had a bad year? I'm just saying that this is the first year that he's even up there, Hank has been in the discussion for years now. + He's had those magic moments this year that are almost a "must have" for an NHL award (penalty shot in the WC etc.). Quick has had a great year, but not better than Hank. Did LA win their conference solely (almost) because of him? Nope.
Did NY win their conference solely (almost) because of Hank? Nope. This is an individual award. Not a team award. I think you are overlooking just how close of a race it is. Hank obviously has the edge but it's a lot closer than you seem to let on it to be as if Hank was a shoo-in.

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04-05-2012, 01:12 PM
  #74
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Lundy gets the Vezina 100%. and if he doesnt the league is ridiculous......he has deserved for a few yrs now. Stats are awesome and team is great..........he wins

not the Hart though

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04-05-2012, 02:09 PM
  #75
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I'd be shocked if Hank doesn't win the Vezina. Hart is a bit of a reach for him though, given the way Malkin's played and a potential 60 goal season in Stamkos.

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