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04-04-2012, 11:23 PM
  #51
NoNecksCurse
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sorry majority of the board saying that before the all star break .. not now. so 75% the first half of the season. just find it strange and don't get why he is benched over others. but im not the coach and won't act like it

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04-04-2012, 11:47 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
I just find it extremely crazy we went from majority of the board (at least 75%) saying "wilson has been probably our most consistent forward and will be a stud"... to ... "he lacks detail to his game, he needs improve away from the puck, immature, ect".. sorry but that don't add up imo.

I think maybe him and trotz got into it? who knows but I don't think wilson belongs on the 4th line (just not a fit) .. and if trotz cant justify him being on the 3rd line then I guess its a scratch again...


anyone else want to see a 2nd line of wilson - legwand - rads ?

erat fisher sk
wilson legwand radulov
hornqvist spaling ak
bourque/tootoo/smith gaustad halischuk/yip
Could Trotz and Wilson have "gotten into it"? Sure. But that's really just speculation. We don't know either way.

I think a lot of it is that we as fans tend to notice what is going on in front of the cameras...i.e. where the puck is. I can't speak with any sort of authority about Colin Wilson's play away from the puck, unless Pete and Terry happen to point it out on a replay (which isn't all that often). What Wilson is or isn't doing away from the play -- something the coaches notice, but we as fans don't -- could be the explanation.

To bring up another point -- a lot of us have noticed Jordin Tootoo's gaffs on the ice, even though he has put up a prolific offensive season (for him) -- he seemed to lack focus at times. And we wondered why he wasn't benched while Colin Wilson was. Well, now Tootoo has been a healthy scratch a few times as well. So this isn't just a Colin Wilson problem.

Tootoo is a 3rd (or occasionally 4th) line grinder, who is out there to throw out a few hits, be a general pest, and bring a physical element to the game. He doesn't kill penalties, and rarely plays on the power play.

Wilson, on the other hand, is (supposed to be) a 2nd liner...I'm hesitant to say 3rd, because he really doesn't bring much of a physical element to our D (which is the norm for most of our 3rd liners). Wilson is effective on the power play...which is one big thing he has going for him. However, the difference between him and the Kostitsyns (he wouldn't take Rads or Erat's wing spots) isn't really enough to put him in the lineup for that purpose alone. If that were the case, we'd be seeing a lot more of Ryan Ellis on the PP over Klein or *shudder* Bouillon.


I guess what I'm getting at is that I can see how he doesn't quite fit right now. Each line has their own purpose...but they all play defense. Our top lines are charged with shutting down the other team's top lines. He's not going to edge out any of the current wingers in that role. And our bottom two lines are energy lines that are grinders, hitters, and hard forecheckers....and I really don't see Wilson fitting in there. Not right now.

Is there space for his ability on the team? Absolutely. But he's going to have to find his defensive niche.

Talent wise...he doesn't stack up with Radulov...but I see a lot of similarities to how they played when they were young. There's a lot that Wilson could learn from Rads' game and how it's matured. Their styles are similar enough.

So to answer your final question...yes, I could see Wilson-Legwand-Radulov...but Wilson needs to start modeling his defensive game after Rads. He doesn't have to be a PKer to succeed in this system.

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04-05-2012, 05:49 AM
  #53
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Let's compare Wilson/Tootoo to Bourque/Spaling. Why are the latter two playing more often? They pay attention to detail, hustle, produce decent numbers, especially Bourque lately and play a team game. Wilson and Tootoo have both had very good stretches of hockey but have also had stretches of good offensive play but made mental/physical mistakes(detail) that the staff has not liked. They were both given leeway at the time because we didn't have bodies to play, now that we do, they're sitting. Until they learn the nuances of the game that Trotz wants them to play, some lesser skilled players may end up playing because they play an all around game, not just a one way game.

Someone said Trotz and Rads butted heads when Rads was here a few years ago and while that was true, what has Rads done since he's been back, played good two way hockey and that's why he's getting the minutes he has been. If he didn't buy into the defensive things he would be getting less minutes right now as well.

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04-05-2012, 06:20 AM
  #54
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There was a point this season when Wilson-Spaling-Tootoo was our best line. I suspect at some point Wilson assumed he had it all figured out and could do what he wanted to. Until we picked up AK and Rads he still had a spot every night. But now he has too many bodies in front of him.

Whatever it is he needs to figure it out this summer.

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04-05-2012, 06:56 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
sorry majority of the board saying that before the all star break .. not now. so 75% the first half of the season. just find it strange and don't get why he is benched over others. but im not the coach and won't act like it
To be fair, he was playing differently then. He was maintaining puck possession. He was battling. He was letting the plays come to him rather than trying to force so much, and it was working for him.

My theory is he began to think he could do anything he wanted with the puck, and started neglecting the details of the game that were actually helping him be that good forward who looked like a stud-in-waiting.

He got benched last season. Over the summer he made it a point to work on his biggest weakness at the time, mental toughness. I think he'll work on his two-way game this summer. He has shown a willingness to respond to coaching during the off season at least.

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04-05-2012, 09:17 AM
  #56
token grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
I just find it extremely crazy we went from majority of the board (at least 75%) saying "wilson has been probably our most consistent forward and will be a stud"... to ... "he lacks detail to his game, he needs improve away from the puck, immature, ect".. sorry but that don't add up imo.

I think maybe him and trotz got into it? who knows but I don't think wilson belongs on the 4th line (just not a fit) .. and if trotz cant justify him being on the 3rd line then I guess its a scratch again...


anyone else want to see a 2nd line of wilson - legwand - rads ?

erat fisher sk
wilson legwand radulov
hornqvist spaling ak
bourque/tootoo/smith gaustad halischuk/yip
It is not crazy. He was very very good the first half of the year. Right about time the good team play in Jan stopped and the team had to focus more on defense (bc pekka wasn't as hot/breakrs/etc) he slacked off a bit and has never recovered. His problem is he is getting outworked right now. I can almost promis that he has been given a list of directives that he has ignored as far as his play is concerned. Add in an injury and guys ramping up play while he pouts isn't going to get him in the lineup.

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04-05-2012, 09:35 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
It is not crazy. He was very very good the first half of the year. Right about time the good team play in Jan stopped and the team had to focus more on defense (bc pekka wasn't as hot/breakrs/etc) he slacked off a bit and has never recovered. His problem is he is getting outworked right now. I can almost promis that he has been given a list of directives that he has ignored as far as his play is concerned. Add in an injury and guys ramping up play while he pouts isn't going to get him in the lineup.

In a team game with a limited number of people, adding 2 guys (AK and Radz) is enough to push Wilson out. It *might* have a little to do with his play, but the main problem for Wilson was the addition of two better players. It is that simple.

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04-05-2012, 10:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Basher View Post
In a team game with a limited number of people, adding 2 guys (AK and Radz) is enough to push Wilson out. It *might* have a little to do with his play, but the main problem for Wilson was the addition of two better players. It is that simple.
I think if Wilson would understand that his role changed with the addition of AK and Rads, he would have been fine. If he would hustle and play more a chip and chase game with spaling and hornquist he would be in the lineup still.

Or he could have raised his game when we got AK and not let him take that spot. Wilson and Legwand have chemistry. Wilson let this opportunity slip through his fingers. It isn't Trotz. It isn't the system. It is Wilson. Sometimes you gotta look in the mirror and look at the problem rather than blame everything around you.

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04-05-2012, 10:48 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Trotz has not proven that he can coach an offensive type player. All of the players other than Radulov and people forget that Trotz and Rad bumped heads then. Trotz coaches Erat and Legwand which are very good defensive players but very inconsistent offensive players. Legwand is not a top 6 offensive player and really doesn't belong on the line with Rad and Ak. But we don't have anybody else. Fisher is not fast enough for that line either. Erat is having his best year but at 6ml you expect 25 to 30 goals instead of 15-20. Wilson was the best offensive player in the first half of the season and Trotz constantly moved him around from the Legwand and Hornqvist line to the checking line of Spaling and Tootoo. Wilson like Dumont of the previous two years is now the whipping boy. Wilson can be a 30 goal scorer but not with Trotz as his coach. Trotz has his favorites and it doesn't matter what they do they play along and they get ice time. Trotz thinks defense first and every line if it was up to Trotz then every line would have a defensive player on it. Which that is why we are inconsistant offensive team. Sk went through period of not scoring but his lineup status didn't change. Wilson has offensive talent and I was hoping it was going to be here but I don't think he'll survive. I expect him to be traded in the offseason. Trotz on the other hand is now under the gun. Will Yip perform during the playoffs. Because the other teams are going to gear up for the Rad line and the Fisher line and the free ice will be the 3rd and 4th lines just like it was during the Ducks series. I hope Trotz doesn't pull his mad genius mode again but he always does. Because now Suter and Weber are watching to see if you have the master plan.
Erat is an inconsisent offensive player?!

03-04 - 49 points
04-05 - Lockout
05-06 - 49 points
06-07 - 57 points
07-08 - 57 points
08-09 - 50 points
09-10 - 49 points
10-11 - 50 points
11-12 - 58 points

Erat's cap hit is 4.5 mil.

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04-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #60
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Wilson has made comments about how the coaches want him to do certain things but "that's not his game" and how he likes to play it "loose."

He needs to realize that until he can start putting up superstar numbers, the only game "he" has, should be the one the coaches are asking of him. Once you lead the league in scoring, you can start demanding the coaches let you play a bit different.

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04-05-2012, 11:32 AM
  #61
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Wilson is the new HArtnell for sure.

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04-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #62
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Wilson is the new HArtnell for sure.
Hartnell was a 20+ goal scorer for the Preds. Wilson scores fewer goals per minute of ES time than Halischuk or Bourque. Some players are willing to work and make the most of what talent they have, others think talent alone is enough and coast. We see which group is playing.

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04-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #63
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Anyone know if the Atlanta market will get any Preds playoff games on tv?

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04-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
Erat is an inconsisent offensive player?!

03-04 - 49 points
04-05 - Lockout
05-06 - 49 points
06-07 - 57 points
07-08 - 57 points
08-09 - 50 points
09-10 - 49 points
10-11 - 50 points
11-12 - 58 points

Erat's cap hit is 4.5 mil.
I'm guessing they mean from month to month...but that's pretty much true with every player. Even superstars have inconsistencies.

Erat, from the big picture perspective, is remarkably consistent. I don't like the size of his salary, but I can deal with it knowing exactly what it is buying.

Legwand, when healthy, is pretty consistent as well. He's good for about 40-60 points per 82 games played.

PPG totals for Legwand
99-00 - .39
00-01 - .51
01-02 - .48
02-03 - .75
03-04 - .57
05-06 - .59
06-07 - .81
07-08 - .68
08-09 - .58
09-10 - .46
10-11 - .64
11-12* - .68

Bolded are the years where Leggy has been on a 40-60 point pace. His career average is .59 points per game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
Wilson has made comments about how the coaches want him to do certain things but "that's not his game" and how he likes to play it "loose."

He needs to realize that until he can start putting up superstar numbers, the only game "he" has, should be the one the coaches are asking of him. Once you lead the league in scoring, you can start demanding the coaches let you play a bit different.
That's what I've been saying. If he was our leading scorer, Trotz might be bugging him in practice, but he wouldn't be healthy scratching him. He's got 5 forwards ahead of him in scoring. Hard to justify giving him leeway when the 5 guys ahead of him in points are playing the system.

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04-05-2012, 12:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
Erat is an inconsisent offensive player?!

03-04 - 49 points
04-05 - Lockout
05-06 - 49 points
06-07 - 57 points
07-08 - 57 points
08-09 - 50 points
09-10 - 49 points
10-11 - 50 points
11-12 - 58 points

Erat's cap hit is 4.5 mil.
It has been explained on here before Erat is making 6ml this year ....then the cap goes down the remaining years he has never had a 30 goal season. If you measure mediocrity by points go for it

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04-05-2012, 12:12 PM
  #66
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It has been explained on here before Erat is making 6ml this year ....then the cap goes down the remaining years he has never had a 30 goal season. If you measure mediocrity by points go for it
Peter Forsberg only ever scored 30 twice. Exactly 30. You don't have to hit 30 goals to be a good player.

Erat is in no way, shape, or form a Peter Forsberg...but he's more of a playmaker than a goal scorer.


I agree the contract is high (I think it had to be at the time...), and that very well may make Marty overpaid...that doesn't make him mediocre.

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04-05-2012, 12:23 PM
  #67
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Anyone know if the Atlanta market will get any Preds playoff games on tv?
As of now, all I see is tonight's game televised. Nothing on the playoffs yet.

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04-05-2012, 12:25 PM
  #68
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Sometimes you gotta look in the mirror and look at the problem rather than blame everything around you.
Actually all the time...

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04-05-2012, 12:44 PM
  #69
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Peter Forsberg only ever scored 30 twice. Exactly 30. You don't have to hit 30 goals to be a good player.

Erat is in no way, shape, or form a Peter Forsberg...but he's more of a playmaker than a goal scorer.


I agree the contract is high (I think it had to be at the time...), and that very well may make Marty overpaid...that doesn't make him mediocre.
That doesn't even take in consideration of his playoff performances which he always gets hurt and that big goof against the blackhawks...which was a dumb play. But Forsberg in the playoffs with Avs is legendary ....Erat just a blimp ...Erat can create so many chances and could have had 30 -35 goals if he would finish them but that's his mo he doesn't

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04-05-2012, 12:48 PM
  #70
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That doesn't even take in consideration of his playoff performances which he always gets hurt and that big goof against the blackhawks...which was a dumb play. But Forsberg in the playoffs with Avs is legendary ....Erat just a blimp ...Erat can create so many chances and could have had 30 -35 goals if he would finish them but that's his mo he doesn't
Does he pass the puck too much? Yes.

Could he have 30-35 goals? Only if we're playing Ray Emery every night.

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04-05-2012, 12:56 PM
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Does he pass the puck too much? Yes.

Could he have 30-35 goals? Only if we're playing Ray Emery every night.
Not from what i have seen. Him and some of are top liners miss A LOT of wide open nets. Matter of fact he hooked one just the other night when he was wide open and looking at half the net open

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04-05-2012, 01:01 PM
  #72
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Not from what i have seen. Him and some of are top liners miss A LOT of wide open nets. Matter of fact he hooked one just the other night when he was wide open and looking at half the net open
Newsflash: a lot of NHL top liners miss open nets, hit posts, break sticks, whiff, etc. Not everybody can be Steven Stamkos or Evgeni Malkin...though they sometimes do that as well.

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04-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #73
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Not from what i have seen. Him and some of are top liners miss A LOT of wide open nets. Matter of fact he hooked one just the other night when he was wide open and looking at half the net open
Missing open nets isn't a trait of a player. It just happens. It's a fast game. I'm sure if you pick any random NHL team and watch all their games you won't find anyone "missing wide open nets" noticeably less than us. I see Detroit miss open nets all the time, or at least partially open nets, because of their quick puck movement and sometimes they can't get the timing down perfectly and they will miss even though a goalie is out of position.

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04-05-2012, 01:14 PM
  #74
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Just to add some perspective here. With TWO games left in the regular season, the goal scoring leaders for the entire NHL break down like this...

50 Goals - 1 player
40 Goals - 4 players
30 Goals - 26 players (<1 per team) :: Radulov
25 Goals - 56 players (<2 per team) :: Radulov, Hornqvist
20 Goals - 94 players (>3 per team) :: Radulov, Hornqvist, Fisher
15 Goals - 167 players (>5 per team) :: Radulov, Hornqvist, Fisher, Erat, Weber, S. Kostitsyn, A. Kostitsyn, Wilson


This assumes that Radulov would carry his current pace through an entire season (35 goal pace, so we can assume 30 is a safe bet). It also shows that it's mostly unrealistic to expect any player to score 40 in today's game, although Stamkos is a pretty good bet.

If Fisher, Erat, Weber and/or Halischuk score one goal in either of the next two games it will bolster the numbers further. With this kind of production, it's silly to look at contracts at this point of the season and put them up against goal totals. It's a team game and the important part is that the Preds scored and won this season, let the value of each player's contract be debated in the summer when roster decisions have to be made. Right now look at the great season they had and get ready for the Playoffs!!!

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04-05-2012, 03:28 PM
  #75
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Not from what i have seen. Him and some of are top liners miss A LOT of wide open nets. Matter of fact he hooked one just the other night when he was wide open and looking at half the net open
Quote:
Originally Posted by BourqueBourqueBork View Post
Newsflash: a lot of NHL top liners miss open nets, hit posts, break sticks, whiff, etc. Not everybody can be Steven Stamkos or Evgeni Malkin...though they sometimes do that as well.
Heatley missed one the other night too, from right in front of the goal. Tried to roof it and missed high. Just sayin'.

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