Yeah, not sure where this "after the age of 10" rule comes from either. I'm sure there's been players in the recent past (for Team USA) that may not have qualified under this rule that's apparently appeared out of thin air.
At least this will quiet down the rampant "IIHF and USA Hockey are in cahoots to exploit some random loophole to allow Galchenyuk to play" crowd. Well, at least it should.
I still feel awful for Matteau. That kid has given his heart and soul to his teammates and USA Hockey for the last 2 years and the IIHF, at the very last minute, have ripped his opportunity away from him without a viable explanation at this point. Kid should be steaming mad.
I'm glad, though, to at least see Hockey Canada was supportive of USA Hockey in their disagreement with the IIHF. It's great when our hockey federations can stick together to do the right thing and support common sense.
Who knows, someday Canada might be in the same situation. Imagine something weird where a kid of Canadian parents, who might be working in the US, ends up getting drafted to a American based CHL team, and suddenly can't play for Canada? I mean I know that sounds like a long shot, but just imagine how absurd it would be.
The kid is a part of the US program and has played for the NDTP for a year and a half or whatever. But by some technicality that he didn't change his drivers license he is longer eligible to play for his team? Just silly to me.
Sarnia is right on the border, he could be living in Port Huron, Michigan.
I hope he is aware of the rule and taking action for it.
I mean I'd love to have Galchenyuk play for us if he wants, but I'm not going out trying to recruit him. It's just silly if a US citizen wants to play for the US that he can't because of a technicality.
I've seen a lot of people say, in this thread, that Team Canada has left some space on their roster because they're waiting for some playoff results.
I'm not sure if those people realize it or not, but that can't be possible...at least I don't think it can be. No series in the OHL Round 2, can be wrapped up before April 12 (when Canada plays it's first game). And no series in the WHL or QMJHL can be wrapped up before April 11 (pretty sure you're final roster has to be in to the IIHF before then).
So IMO, there has to be another reason space was left. They're waiting on injuries to heal (Finn, Curcuruto, Maidens, Koekkoek, other guys in the WHL or QMJHL who're injured), or they've got something else up their sleeve like convincing Matteau to play.
Who knows, someday Canada might be in the same situation. Imagine something weird where a kid of Canadian parents, who might be working in the US, ends up getting drafted to a American based CHL team, and suddenly can't play for Canada? I mean I know that sounds like a long shot, but just imagine how absurd it would be.
The kid is a part of the US program and has played for the NDTP for a year and a half or whatever. But by some technicality that he didn't change his drivers license he is longer eligible to play for his team? Just silly to me.
could it be because he is going to the Q next year with Blainville?
could it be because he is going to the Q next year with Blainville?
As I understand it that's not the issue, but it won't help him going forward. He needed to play in the US for two years but apparently hasn't. Obviously living in Montreal won't help him reach that.
the Matteau situation is a disgrace and everyone within USA Hockey should be axed. I dont care how I sound, but after the pathetic selection process of the US WJC team, the underperforming 94's for the USNDP, the ridiculous snub of Alex Galchenyuk from the U18 team, to now this...how can anyone support Johansson and anyone above or below him keeping their jobs??
this is almost a comedy act. it has to be, it just does..I understand IIHF has something up their butt, but they (USA Hockey) had to know this was a possibility...
I really just want the executives wiped out of USA Hockey andnew blood brought in...it is just pissing me off more and more every year...
I'm pretty sure in Canada they televise Canadian games on TSN if I'm not mistaken.
They show a semifinal game and both medal games, but every other one is on FAST.
Hockey Canada is cool and has been offering all of their events for free on there, so I'd look out for that as it gets closer.
They haven't added any of the games yet for some reason.
the Matteau situation is a disgrace and everyone within USA Hockey should be axed. I dont care how I sound, but after the pathetic selection process of the US WJC team, the underperforming 94's for the USNDP, the ridiculous snub of Alex Galchenyuk from the U18 team, to now this...how can anyone support Johansson and anyone above or below him keeping their jobs??
this is almost a comedy act. it has to be, it just does..I understand IIHF has something up their butt, but they (USA Hockey) had to know this was a possibility...
I really just want the executives wiped out of USA Hockey andnew blood brought in...it is just pissing me off more and more every year...
I think, right now, you're being too harsh on USA Hockey. Not that they haven't been deserving a plenty of criticism in the past for some real blunders but it's too early, and too little information available, to call for everyone at USA Hockey to be axed for this. We don't have enough information. Chris Peters, as connected as any of us are going to get to the inner circles of USA Hockey on this, believes the IIHF is quoting the same rule that others were trying to use against Galchenyuk earlier in this thread:
Quote:
1.7 When a player has multiple citizenships where the relevant citizenships are for countries of member national associations and he has never represented any country in any IIHF
championship or an Olympic competition or in qualifications to these competitions, then in order to play for the country of his choice he must
a) prove that he has participated for at least two consecutive years in the national competitions of and resident in the country that he wishes to represent during which period he has neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey within any other country and
b) if the country of his choice is one to which the player has transferred then he must have had an IIHF international transfer card approved and dated by the IIHF at least two years prior to his proposed participation.
When a player wishes to establish his eligibility under subsections c) or e) or f) or g) the member national association for which he wishes to play must submit an application to the IIHF together with all relating evidence at the latest four weeks before the competition or game in which the player wishes to play. The General Secretary is responsible for investigating the application and confirming the player's eligibility to play for the country
concerned. Notwithstanding the above, the decision of the General Secretary is not conclusive proof of the eligibility of the player to play for the country concerned.
If that is indeed correct then Kevin Allen's information about why the IIHF is ruling as they did is wrong because I see nothing in that rule that says you have to have played two consecutive years after 10 years of age to be eligible. Now, it's possible Allen is correct, the above rule isn't involved, and the IIHF is just making it up as they go or are being influenced by another hockey federation (international sports federations are about as corrupt as it gets).
It seems as if the IIHF is just making things up as they go in that seasons do not equal years in terms of hockey and adding in this apparent 10 year age floor.
Now, I don't know what the following is in reference to and if it has any effect:
Quote:
When a player wishes to establish his eligibility under subsections c) or e) or f) or g) the member national association for which he wishes to play must submit an application to the IIHF together with all relating evidence at the latest four weeks before the competition or game in which the player wishes to play.
The previous posters didn't quote that part during the Galchenyuk debate nor can I find any information on those subsections so if this is the rule the IIHF is using, it's hard to blame USA Hockey. They'd have no reason why to think there would be any issues with Matteau and while you'd think they would confirm eligibility ahead of time with the IIHF, just to be sure, we don't know if USAH did so and the IIHF said he was eligible and then reversed themselves just now or if they will even confirm those things ahead of time. You'd certainly hope USA Hockey would do their due diligence but we also shouldn't condemn them all before we have all the information, especially for something like not adding Galchenyuk when a guy that should have ZERO eligibility issues like Matteau was arbitrarily denied for, at this point, no justifiable reason by the IIHF. The IIHF could have done the same to Alex as long as they want to it appears. At this stage, it's pretty harsh to blame that on USAH.
Does this mean there should have been eligibility issues with Colin Wilson? Or Tyler Myers wouldn't have been able to play for Team USA even if he wanted to? This is all just silly and screams of the IIHF exercising some loophole or unseen rule on behalf of some unnamed party at this time to keep a kid that's worked toward this for 2 years from joining his teammates in the biggest tournament to date in his life.
__________________ "I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough." - Mark Twain.
Last edited by William H Bonney: 04-06-2012 at 08:30 PM.
Location: Gary Coleman's Finishing School for Doomsday Devices
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan
Kevin Allen @kausatoday
The Stefan Matteau issue:he has not played 2 consecutive years (not seasons) in U.S. after the age of 10. Canada supports USA's claim
Was Matteau born in Canada? I don't understand how this is an issue with him when someone like Colin Wilson has been cleared to play for the US despite not living there since he was a year old.
Was Matteau born in Canada? I don't understand how this is an issue with him when someone like Colin Wilson has been cleared to play for the US despite not living there since he was a year old.
No, he was born in Chicago and has lived in the US for 11 of his 18 years and thus played just as much of his hockey, if not more, in the US as well.
There's many reasons why this makes no sense. Should Colin Wilson have been ineligible? Could Tyler Myers even have played for Team USA after he acquired his Canadian citizenship right before the U18 tournament? This is all so stupid.
This really seems like the IIHF is just making this up as they go along. The question is, why did they want to crack down on USA hockey and Stefan Matteau in particular? It doesn't make any sense.
DATE EVENT TIME ET/PT NETWORK
Tuesday, April 17 Canada vs. USA 2pm/11am TSN
Thursday, April 19 Quarter-final 9am/6am TSN
Friday, April 20 Semifinal 1pm/10am TSN
Sunday, April 22 Bronze Medal Game 6am/3am TSN
Gold Medal Game 10am/7am TSN
I think, right now, you're being too harsh on USA Hockey. Not that they haven't been deserving a plenty of criticism in the past for some real blunders but it's too early, and too little information available, to call for everyone at USA Hockey to be axed for this. We don't have enough information. Chris Peters, as connected as any of us are going to get to the inner circles of USA Hockey on this, believes the IIHF is quoting the same rule that others were trying to use against Galchenyuk earlier in this thread:
you are probably right, but at what point is enough enough? I just see so much incompetence at all different levels that I honestly cant take much more of this regime.
plenty of new blood out there that can take USA Hockey in the direction it so deserves.
I may be harsh on them but its only because I expect nothing but A+ from them....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu
This really seems like the IIHF is just making this up as they go along. The question is, why did they want to crack down on USA hockey and Stefan Matteau in particular? It doesn't make any sense.
I'd speculate that there was some internal discussion to decide to enforce this rule now when previously they'd let it slide. Especially since it doesn't seem that Hockey Canada filed a complaint. The US has obviously been the biggest benificiary of getting non-homegrown players in the past (like Wilson), so it's possible the IIHF is using them as an example, but it's probably just bad timing that he's the only player who would be subject to this rule at this time.
The Matteau case does look suspicious, but I'm not sure about "some evil third party country plot" conspiracy theory. Like I've pointed out on several threads IIHF eligibility isn't smooth sailing, it's a rule done in good faith - to disencourage hockey nationality mercenarism, but in reality the bereaucraty of this rule (s) sometimes looks ridiculous. (That's one of the main reasons I really wanted to see solid evidence of Galchenyuk's eligibility, because he looks a clearer case of not being eligible for USA to me, though but now we have to wait until WJC next year, unless he will be the NHL already... and if so, that he isn't drafted by Canadian team, which wouldn't help us forget about these issues ). Anyway, I don't get that "over the age of 10 ruling" and where it suddenly came from. Has IIHF issued statement about that? In my eyes it's enough, that Matteau hasn't officialy been registered as living in the USA for two years to close the case, so why bother making something extra up?
Here are few other recent cases that I know of. Russia lost a player due eligibility issues on the eve of this year's WJC, the name of Podzins were crossed out from the list of candidates by IIHF and not by the baffled head coach. The funny part is that he wasn't eligible for team Latvia at the time as well. Kazakhstan is now battling IIHF in order to prove that Alexei Bondarev is national team eligible. Born, raised and started to play hockey in Kazakhstan, but they simply can't prove it, because no actual game protocols have survived from Kazakh youth leagues in nineties.
I wrote all this just so you all could take of your tinfoil hats and see that USA hockey isn't a sole victim of IIHF rules.
The Matteau case does look suspicious, but I'm not sure about "some evil third party country plot" conspiracy theory. Like I've pointed out on several threads IIHF eligibility isn't smooth sailing, it's a rule done in good faith - to disencourage hockey nationality mercenarism, but in reality the bereaucraty of this rule (s) sometimes looks ridiculous. (That's one of the main reasons I really wanted to see solid evidence of Galchenyuk's eligibility, because he looks a clearer case of not being eligible for USA to me, though but now we have to wait until WJC next year, unless he will be the NHL already... and if so, that he isn't drafted by Canadian team, which wouldn't help us forget about these issues ). Anyway, I don't get that "over the age of 10 ruling" and where it suddenly came from. Has IIHF issued statement about that? In my eyes it's enough, that Matteau hasn't officialy been registered as living in the USA for two years to close the case, so why bother making something extra up?
Here are few other recent cases that I know of. Russia lost a player due eligibility issues on the eve of this year's WJC, the name of Podzins were crossed out from the list of candidates by IIHF and not by the baffled head coach. The funny part is that he wasn't eligible for team Latvia at the time as well. Kazakhstan is now battling IIHF in order to prove that Alexei Bondarev is national team eligible. Born, raised and started to play hockey in Kazakhstan, but they simply can't prove it, because no actual game protocols have survived from Kazakh youth leagues in nineties.
I wrote all this just so you all could take of your tinfoil hats and see that USA hockey isn't a sole victim of IIHF rules.
I can't speak for everyone, but I don't see an IIHF conspiracy against the US. I just see a really stupid and apparently selectively applied rule. I mean, does Matteau not qualify simply because he didn't change his driver's license when he moved to Michigan? He's been with the USNDTP for the last year and half or so, seems a bit silly that he wouldn't be a "resident" of Michigan.
As far as Galchenyuk is concerned, it's a bit silly that if he was drafted by the Plymouth Whalers or Saginaw (or if he has drafted by the Islanders or somebody) that he was suddenly be qualified for the US program.
As far as Galchenyuk is concerned, it's a bit silly that if he was drafted by the Plymouth Whalers or Saginaw (or if he has drafted by the Islanders or somebody) that he was suddenly be qualified for the US program.
If you look at this example it is kinda silly, but this rule primarly is in place to force lesser hockey nations to develop their own players. (some could argue that USA is lesser nation in this case, as they are kinda trying to naturalize Canadian Matteau and Belarussian Galchenyuk). These two years are the only thing that prevents countries like Qatar for qualifying for Olympic games as they could simply buy a whole roster NHL-ers and give them their passports. How stacked would Italy or Poland be if every Italian descent player picked up a passport they are legally entitled to? Though in my neutral opinion Galchenyuk shouldn't be able
If you look at this example it is kinda silly, but this rule primarly is in place to force lesser hockey nations to develop their own players. (some could argue that USA is lesser nation in this case, as they are kinda trying to naturalize Canadian Matteau and Belarussian Galchenyuk). These two years are the only thing that prevents countries like Qatar for qualifying for Olympic games as they could simply buy a whole roster NHL-ers and give them their passports. How stacked would Italy or Poland be if every Italian descent player picked up a passport they are legally entitled to? Though in my neutral opinion Galchenyuk shouldn't be able
Matteau and Galchenyuk were never naturalized, they were born US citizens
Qatar hasn't been able to purchase a World Cup able soccer side yet. I don't see how it would be a huge problem.
Matteau was born in the US and apparently has lived here the majority of his life. Yet somehow he isn't eligible?
You can't buy US citizenship, if one could I'm sure it would be a very popular purchase. The US government doesn't shift citizenship rules for hockey players. As for Galchenyuk, under these rules I can't see how he'd be eligible for Belarus, he didn't ever play there.
Matteau and Galchenyuk were never naturalized, they were born US citizens
Qatar hasn't been able to purchase a World Cup able soccer side yet. I don't see how it would be a huge problem.
Matteau was born in the US and apparently has lived here the majority of his life. Yet somehow he isn't eligible?
You can't buy US citizenship, if one could I'm sure it would be a very popular purchase. The US government doesn't shift citizenship rules for hockey players. As for Galchenyuk, under these rules I can't see how he'd be eligible for Belarus, he didn't ever play there.
A place in soccer World Cup is immensely harder to achieve than place Olympic hockey tournament (though sadly, it's matter of time know, seeing have Qatarian youth teams crush ManUtd academy sides) . But anyway, that was an example anyway, you don't need to tell me that USA's citizenship can't be bought.
It seems that Matteau simply can't prove that he has lived the majority of his life in USA. And you are right about Galchenyuk as far as I know, he doesn't even have Belarus passport or those magic two years. Only side he clearly can play for is Russia and maybe USA.
A place in soccer World Cup is immensely harder to achieve than place Olympic hockey tournament (though sadly, it's matter of time know, seeing have Qatarian youth teams crush ManUtd academy sides) . But anyway, that was an example anyway, you don't need to tell me that USA's citizenship can't be bought.
It seems that Matteau simply can't prove that he has lived the majority of his life in USA. And you are right about Galchenyuk as far as I know, he doesn't even have Belarus passport or those magic two years. Only side he clearly can play for is Russia and maybe USA.
I admit I don't know enough about his case, but I know he played in Chicago at 15 moved to Sarnia at 16 and has been there since. So we can assume I guess that he played in Russia from 10-15. I am sure somebody knows this better than I do. But considering the nature of the CHL is just seems silly that he would have been eligible if he was drafted by Erie, Saginaw or Plymouth. I mean, would that really change anything?
I think it's silly for all these players, especially and even more so some of the examples you cited about players for Kazakhstan and others. Frustrating for all involved I think. Especially if you don't have a competing claim on the player. For that I am of course talking about Bondarev. You say he isn't eligible to play for anybody else but the IIHF says he can't play for the only team he is eligible for!
Imagine if for whatever reason Galchenyuk wasn't able to play for Russia? And he wasn't able to play for the US? Then the IIHF basically says, no sorry, you can't play international hockey at all.
). Anyway, I don't get that "over the age of 10 ruling" and where it suddenly came from. Has IIHF issued statement about that? In my eyes it's enough, that Matteau hasn't officialy been registered as living in the USA for two years to close the case, so why bother making something extra up?
