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04-06-2012, 01:22 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by bizoncol View Post
I just checked some players game logs. Even guys like Parenteau and Moulson haven't had 6 games pointless streak all year long. David Desharnais, another french Canadian center form the struggling team, didn't have a point only in 4 games in a row at most. This season was considered as "make it or brake it" for Brassard, we need him to be consistent points producer, but he still was consistent in his inconsistency. I still like him, he's a very talented player, but he has to be better for this team to succeed.

There are a lot of players that need to be better for this team to succeed.

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04-06-2012, 01:26 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Typical. "Something good happened? Credit Craig Patrick! Something bad happened? Blame Scott Howson!"

Do you REALLY want to see Patrick's first- and second-round drafting with Pittsburgh? If you think Columbus can't draft in the second round, check out Pittsburgh's record over a 17-year span.
Agree. I would like to remind some people about one of the worst trades in the NHL history... 1996-Mar-20 Craig Patrick traded Markus Naslund from the Pittsburgh Penguins to Vancouver Canucks for Alek Stojanov.

Also you can look at some of his 1st round selections. Stefan Bergkvist, Chris Wells, Craig Hillier, Robert Dome, Milan Kraft, Konstantin Koltsov...

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04-06-2012, 01:30 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Let Howson draft the 6th rounders all by himself if the organization is idiotic enough to let him stay. Leave the first two rounds to the adult (Mr. Patrick). Atkinson is definitely a case of "blind squirrel finds acorn" if Howson had much input in the choice process.
Wow, amazingly condescending garbage. We've been doing much better in later round recently. At least with getting someone that has potential. Howson is involved in that and I am the original member and founder of the "Howson blows" committee.

I may not think highly of Howson, but let's not become so blinded that we can no longer remain objective.

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04-06-2012, 01:36 PM
  #129
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Wow, amazingly condescending garbage. We've been doing much better in later round recently. At least with getting someone that has potential. Howson is involved in that and I am the original member and founder of the "Howson blows" committee.

I may not think highly of Howson, but let's not become so blinded that we can no longer remain objective.
Objectivity?? We don't need no stinking objectivity !!


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04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
  #130
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Wow, amazingly condescending garbage. .
QFTT

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04-06-2012, 02:08 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by bizoncol View Post
Agree. I would like to remind some people about one of the worst trades in the NHL history... 1996-Mar-20 Craig Patrick traded Markus Naslund from the Pittsburgh Penguins to Vancouver Canucks for Alek Stojanov.

Also you can look at some of his 1st round selections. Stefan Bergkvist, Chris Wells, Craig Hillier, Robert Dome, Milan Kraft, Konstantin Koltsov...
First rounders...Jamie Heward, Jaromir Jagr, Markus Naslund, Martin Straka, Stefan Bergqvist, Chris Wells, Aleksey Morozov, Craig Hillier, Robert Dome, Milan Kraft, Konstantin Koltsov, Brooks Orpik, Colby Armstrong, and then all those top-5 picks.

Naslund was traded before coming close to hitting his potential. Jagr fell into Pittsburgh's collective laps; there used to be an Iron Curtan Factor instead of a Russian Factor, and Petr Nedved went to Vancouver (2nd overall) because he'd played in the WHL in his draft year.

Want to know how different NHL history can look as a result of one move? Imagine Vancouver with a top line of Pavel Bure and Jaromir Jagr on the wings with Igor Larionov up the middle.

The suggestion was made (pre-edit) that Johansen needs to be dumped before the value of that 19-year-old elite prospect drops further. Well damn, who better to make that deal than the guy who dumped Markus Naslund for someone whose lack of talent made Chris Wells look like an all-star?

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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Wow, amazingly condescending garbage. We've been doing much better in later round recently. At least with getting someone that has potential. Howson is involved in that and I am the original member and founder of the "Howson blows" committee.

I may not think highly of Howson, but let's not become so blinded that we can no longer remain objective.
Two games ago, there were no less than three of Howson's 6th-rounders in the lineup: Allen York, Cam Atkinson, and Dalton Prout. The only of MacLean's 6th-rounders to ever play an NHL game are Marc Methot and Jaroslav Balastik.

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04-06-2012, 08:44 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Typical. "Something good happened? Credit Craig Patrick! Something bad happened? Blame Scott Howson!"

Do you REALLY want to see Patrick's first- and second-round drafting with Pittsburgh? If you think Columbus can't draft in the second round, check out Pittsburgh's record over a 17-year span.
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Don't confuse the situation with facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Wow, amazingly condescending garbage. We've been doing much better in later round recently. At least with getting someone that has potential. Howson is involved in that and I am the original member and founder of the "Howson blows" committee.

I may not think highly of Howson, but let's not become so blinded that we can no longer remain objective.

Howson can only be credited/faulted for 3 drafts so far (2008-10).
Craig Patrick's relevant drafts are (1990-2005)

Craig Patrick had 16 first round picks. 5 of those 16 picks were #5 or better. The remainder were 16th or less, the average being in the mid 20's.

Those drafted in the first 6 of the relevant drafts:

Howson 2008 #6 Filatov-BUST

Howson 2010 #4 Johansen-4 assists in last 24 games.

Patrick 1990 #5. A guy named Jagr. Hall of Famer

Patrick 2002 #5 Ryan Whitney-so so defenseman.

Patrick 2003 #1 M. Fleury Stanley Cup winning goalie and Olympic Gold Medal Winner

Patrick 2004 #2 Some guy named Malkin. Future HHOFer

Patrick 2005 #1 Sidney Someone.

Patrick's second round picks were lacking. But, he was generally picking in the 50th player chosen range. Like most of his first round picks, he was picking up leftovers.

Over the years, Patrick's 16 drafts (not including his first rounders) have yielded roughly 20 players who have played over 300 NHL games-legitimate NHLers.

Among Howson's later picks: Atkinson, Savard, Moore, and Calvert might become decent NHLers. His track record on his most meaningful picks has been horrible.

Patrick has Hall of Fame Credentials on best (high first round) picks.
He's hit the ball out of the park 4 out of his 5 chances. Ironically, one of Patrick's first round busts, Craig Hillier (G), did go on to play for Columbus' most competitive professional hockey team since the Chill left. Hillier played for the ill-fated UHL Columbus Stars who folded mid-season while atop the UHL standings. Hillier was a first round #23 overall in 1996.

If anyone thinks that Howson's drafting ability is on par with Mr. Patrick's, then he has redefined the word "objective."

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04-06-2012, 09:04 PM
  #133
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Why only the picks made in the top six? Don't think that gives much of a judgement on the drafting abilities of an individual. Top five picks are pretty much no brainers. Top threes are pretty much a duh. And having the top pick is well...

You or I or my blind aunt could probably draft Crosby or Malkin.

Even GMDM drafted Rick Nash.


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04-06-2012, 10:00 PM
  #134
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Why only the picks made in the top six? Don't think that gives much of a judgement on the drafting abilities of an individual. Top five picks are pretty much no brainers. Top threes are pretty much a duh. And having the top pick is well...

You or I or my blind aunt could probably draft Crosby or Malkin.

Even GMDM drafted Rick Nash.
Most picks beyond the first round don't turn out to be impact players. Or even NHL players for that matter. In fact, very few end up playing even 200 NHL games. From 2002-2006, only 37 of the roughly 150 drafted in the NHL ended up having a 200 or more NHL game career. That's only 25% and there may have been one or two impact players in this group. Picking high end talent in these rounds is generally "needle in the haystack" kind of stuff. Successful teams build through first round picks and free agency these days.

I don't think that most drafting is quite as rudimentary as you seem to think that it is.

Was the Jackets #4 choice of Zherdev a no brainer in a draft where Ryan Getzlaf went 15 spots later? Was choosing a goalie #1 (Fluery by Patrick) who has worked out very well is just a matter of following the play book? Especially given that goalies generally aren't top picks.

Let's take Jagr (#5) compared to Johansen (#4). There's more than reading a Scouting Central report in choosing between this gulf in talent levels. One-a lower pick-will be in the Hall of Fame. The other might-and I say might-have a middling NHL career.

Sure, Crosby was a consensus #1. But that's not always the case. This year's decision for #1 isn't a clear cut one. Yakupov or Grigorenko? Is anyone on this board really comfortable with the man who signed Mason and Umberger to rich extensions before he had to AND drafted Filatov and Johansen making the call on this year's potential top pick?

Probably so

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04-06-2012, 10:07 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Howson can only be credited/faulted for 3 drafts so far (2008-10).
Craig Patrick's relevant drafts are (1990-2005)

Craig Patrick had 16 first round picks. 5 of those 16 picks were #5 or better. The remainder were 16th or less, the average being in the mid 20's.

Those drafted in the first 6 of the relevant drafts:

Howson 2008 #6 Filatov-BUST

Howson 2010 #4 Johansen-4 assists in last 24 games.

Patrick 1990 #5. A guy named Jagr. Hall of Famer

Patrick 2002 #5 Ryan Whitney-so so defenseman.

Patrick 2003 #1 M. Fleury Stanley Cup winning goalie and Olympic Gold Medal Winner

Patrick 2004 #2 Some guy named Malkin. Future HHOFer

Patrick 2005 #1 Sidney Someone.

Patrick's second round picks were lacking. But, he was generally picking in the 50th player chosen range. Like most of his first round picks, he was picking up leftovers.

Over the years, Patrick's 16 drafts (not including his first rounders) have yielded roughly 20 players who have played over 300 NHL games-legitimate NHLers.

Among Howson's later picks: Atkinson, Savard, Moore, and Calvert might become decent NHLers. His track record on his most meaningful picks has been horrible.

Patrick has Hall of Fame Credentials on best (high first round) picks.
He's hit the ball out of the park 4 out of his 5 chances. Ironically, one of Patrick's first round busts, Craig Hillier (G), did go on to play for Columbus' most competitive professional hockey team since the Chill left. Hillier played for the ill-fated UHL Columbus Stars who folded mid-season while atop the UHL standings. Hillier was a first round #23 overall in 1996.

If anyone thinks that Howson's drafting ability is on par with Mr. Patrick's, then he has redefined the word "objective."
You know what your problem is? You're dishonest, and find nothing wrong with intentionally distorting facts in order to suit your agenda. Namely:
1) Howson has been here for five drafts, not three. You intentionally ignore the 2007 draft, which has produced three NHLers thus far (Voracek, York, Mayorov), two more prospects (Weber and Hansen, with Vogelhuber being a longshot), and one guy who abruptly retired and was traded for another prospect anyway.
2) Patrick's average, if you remove the top-5 picks entirely, is between 20 and 21, not "mid-20s". If you use the actual average, it's 15th.
3) You set a benchmark of "top-5", then talk about "top-6". Gee, I wonder why that would be...
4) Two first overall picks, one second overall, Jagr dropping into their laps (which was already addressed), and Ryan Whitney. What incredible skill that must have taken.
5) Patrick's average was between 44th and 45th in the 2nd round, not "around 50th".
6) 300 games is not a "legitimate NHLer". Someone who doesn't even qualify for an NHL pension, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean a damned thing. 800 games is a guy who actually had a 10-year NHL career. Patrick drafted 3 such players, and traded 2 of them for absolutely nothing before they become quality NHLers. That'd be Markus Naslund for Alek Stojanov, and Martin Straka for Norm Maciver and Troy Murray.
7) You mean that one top-5 pick? The kid who's 19? Yeah, what a colossal waste. He'll be no better than that highly-touted playmaker who truly sucked in his rookie season....that 7 points that Joe Thornton put up was a huge waste of a pick.
8) Craig Hillier played in the UHL. That says more than anything else. Not only that, he was a UHL backup.
9) Nikita Filatov, who everyone will agree is a BUST, has more points than 2 of Patrick's 1st-rounders (non-goalies) and than 12 of Patrick's 2nd-rounders (non-goalies). He has more NHL games played than 3 of Patrick's 1st-rounders, and than 11 of his 2nd-rounders.

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04-06-2012, 10:13 PM
  #136
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Cyclones, the fact that you've apparently decided Johansen sucks kind of undermines anything else you're saying. I don't even know what to say about how poor the logic is comparing people based on the exact draft position. You do understand that each draft is different, with different players taken at different times based on who's drafting, who's available, and so forth? Comparing two people because one's a 4 and 5, then concluding that since one #5 is a hall of famer, the #4 who isn't an obvious hall of famer after 60 or so games at age 19, must be some kind of utter failure by his GM?

Interesting line of thought I guess, if you're into being a fantasy GM or whatever.

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04-06-2012, 10:20 PM
  #137
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Cyclones, the fact that you've apparently decided Johansen sucks kind of undermines anything else you're saying. I don't even know what to say about how poor the logic is comparing people based on the exact draft position. You do understand that each draft is different, with different players taken at different times based on who's drafting, who's available, and so forth? Comparing two people because one's a 4 and 5, then concluding that since one #5 is a hall of famer, the #4 who isn't an obvious hall of famer after 60 or so games at age 19, must be some kind of utter failure by his GM?

Interesting line of thought I guess, if you're into being a fantasy GM or whatever.
Want to see how horribly inept Nashville's management is?

David Legwand was a #2 overall pick. So was Evgeni Malkin.

Scottie Upshall, Scott Hartnell, and Brian Finley were all taken 6th overall. So were Peter Forsberg, Paul Coffey, and Vincent Damphousse.

Dan Hamhuis was taken 12th. Just like Marian Hossa.

Ryan Suter was taken 7th...so were Bernie Federko and Bill Barber. Both are HOFers, why isn't Suter?

No wonder those clowns haven't won a Stanley Cup.

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04-06-2012, 10:29 PM
  #138
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Howson can only be credited/faulted for 3 drafts so far (2008-10).
Seeing as how we have six players still in the mix for varying degrees of contribution from the 2008 draft (having said that he was at the table for 2007 as well), I would say that your statement is pretty darn meaningless.

The fact that Sean Collins got a contract, at all, is fairly impressive.

Kubalik, Atkinson, and Calvert, along with Golo are from that single draft year. We have players like Jenner and Tynan in the system as well. I've been saying for three years now, that 2008 draft may come down to the best draft in the history of this franchise when we look back 15 years from now.

I don't know what you are trying to prove, but you really aren't helping your cause. True, these players aren't NHL players yet. But we've never had much hope, in the past, with these players previously drafted. Now we have players with legitimate chances of contributing at this level.

Howson and staff has done a fine job of drafting. I just don't like the NHL roster. I'm not even that upset with Howson over Filatov, even though I wanted Wilson.

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04-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #139
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There are PLENTY of reasons Howson should have been fired MONTHS ago without having to go into his draft history.

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04-07-2012, 01:35 AM
  #140
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[B][QUOTE=Mayor Bee;47449359[/B]]
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You know what your problem is? You're dishonest, and find nothing wrong with intentionally distorting facts in order to suit your agenda. Namely:
Nice personal attack. Projecting your own traits upon others, I'll take it. Your dishonesty is flagrant. I'll point it out to you.

Quote:
1) Howson has been here for five drafts, not three. You intentionally ignore the 2007 draft, which has produced three NHLers thus far (Voracek, York, Mayorov), two more prospects (Weber and Hansen, with Vogelhuber being a longshot), and one guy who abruptly retired and was traded for another prospect anyway.
I didn't factor in 2011 because it's too early. It's called being fair. Perhaps the concept of fairness escapes you.

Howson was hired on June 15,2007 and the draft took place a week later on June 22nd. I didn't follow the Jackets closely at that time, so I would have assumed that a 7 day hire would have pretty much signed off on whomever the scouting staff of the Jackets would have desired-hence its non-inclusion. I think this is a fair assumption. If it isn't, then all scouting material should be withheld from Scotty until the week prior to the draft. If he did drive the 2007 draft, then he functions better as a very quick study than he does when he has time on his hands.
Quote:
2) Patrick's average, if you remove the top-5 picks entirely, is between 20 and 21, not "mid-20s". If you use the actual average, it's 15th.
I estimated off the top of my head. Mid 20s would qualify as 22 or 23-of the non top 5s-as I had stated. You're argument here is specious.
Quote:
3) You set a benchmark of "top-5", then talk about "top-6". Gee, I wonder why that would be...
Howson happened to have two picks in the top 6. Patrick had five top 5s and nothing earlier than a 16th other than those. So #6 would be a reasonable cut off point for a comparison between the two GMs to a reasonable person.
Quote:
4) Two first overall picks, one second overall, Jagr dropping into their laps (which was already addressed), and Ryan Whitney. What incredible skill that must have taken.
Jagr "dropped into their laps". 4 other teams passed on him. Get real. Choosing a goalie who guide them to a Stanley Cup was a high risk and hugely successful pick for Patrick. Unlike Nash, Crosby and Malkin have had supporting casts which have allowed them to flourish. Nash's production has suffered incredibly (bottoming out this year) under the yoke of having no other legit top 6 forwards on his team. Thank you very much, Mr. Howson.
Quote:
5) Patrick's average was between 44th and 45th in the 2nd round, not "around 50th".
If around 50th when the actual number is around 45 amounts to a legitimate point of contention with what I stated, then you simply aren't a reasonable person. It was a good off-the-cuff estimate.
Quote:
6) 300 games is not a "legitimate NHLer". Someone who doesn't even qualify for an NHL pension, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean a damned thing. 800 games is a guy who actually had a 10-year NHL career. Patrick drafted 3 such players, and traded 2 of them for absolutely nothing before they become quality NHLers. That'd be Markus Naslund for Alek Stojanov, and Martin Straka for Norm Maciver and Troy Murray.

I'm the dishonest one? You really are quite the card, "Mayor"!! In fact, you're flat out disingenuous as on can be on this one. And you know it. You have access to some data base which gives you exact drafting position averages and you take issue with an estimate of mine which might be10% off. Yet you INTENTIONALLY FORGET these players:

1)Maxime Talbert 468 GP-still active
2)Ryan Malone 559 GP-still active
3)Tom Kotsoplolous-614 games-still active
4) Rob Scuderi 536 GP still active
5) Andrew Ferrence 711 games still active.
6) Jan Hridina (an ex Blue Jacket at that)513 games
7) Richard Park 737 games-still active
8) Patrick Laline 444 games and 12 NHL seasons as a goalie.

If your memory allowed you to forget all of these players unintentionally, then do seek medical help.

Your 800 game threshold is ridiculous. And you know it. 300 games (4 years) may not constitute pension qualification, but it is a valid measure for a player having a reasonable degree of usefulness.

Quote:
7) You mean that one top-5 pick? The kid who's 19? Yeah, what a colossal waste. He'll be no better than that highly-touted playmaker who truly sucked in his rookie season....that 7 points that Joe Thornton put up was a huge waste of a pick.
Pretty hung up on this comparison. The one year WHL wonder Johansen ain't in Thorton's league. He should have been sent back to the WHL and given another year there. A bad pick plus poorly handled to boot. Vintage Howson.
Quote:
8) Craig Hillier played in the UHL. That says more than anything else. Not only that, he was a UHL backup.
Drafting goalies high is tough stuff. I've had the displeasure of watching a first round pick goalie (Chet Pickard #18 overall 2008 Nashville) wreck the Cincinnati Cyclones playoff chances this past year. Just another 2 examples of the Fleury #1 overall being such an incredibly nervy and successful move.
Quote:
9) Nikita Filatov, who everyone will agree is a BUST, has more points than 2 of Patrick's 1st-rounders (non-goalies) and than 12 of Patrick's 2nd-rounders (non-goalies). He has more NHL games played than 3 of Patrick's 1st-rounders, and than 11 of his 2nd-rounders.
All of which were drafted at much lower positions than Scotty's Bust. But, thanks for the information anyway.


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04-07-2012, 02:13 AM
  #141
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There are PLENTY of reasons Howson should have been fired MONTHS ago without having to go into his draft history.
I'm just piling on

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04-07-2012, 02:17 AM
  #142
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Great road trip

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04-07-2012, 07:24 AM
  #143
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Nice personal attack. Projecting your own traits upon others, I'll take it. Your dishonesty is flagrant. I'll point it out to you.
It's not a personal attack when it's the truth. Many of your posts over the past few weeks have been dishonest in some form.

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04-07-2012, 07:56 AM
  #144
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Jagr "dropped into their laps". 4 other teams passed on him. Get real.
Reality is Jagr played in the Czechoslovakian Extraleague since he was 16. At 17 years old playing on the line with Holik and Reichel he scored 18 points in 7 games at the world juniors and then they won the bronze medal at the World Championship with national team. I remember discussion which line would be better for years: Jagr-Holik-Reichel or Mogilny-Fedorov-Bure. Russians and Czechs had the rivalry going on for years. Nobody had any doubts that Jagr is a generational talent and he wasn't picked in the top-4 for the only reason - no one was sure he would ever come to the NHL.
Mogilny had to escape from Russia in 1989. He was declared a traitor in the USSR.
In 1990, the year of the Jagr draft, Fedorov escaped from the Soviets national team in Seattle and Russians started criminal desertion case. Fedorov and Mogilny weren't able to visit Russia for 5 years cause of criminal charges pressed against them.
Bure was selected 113th a year earlier for the same reason.
Nolan, Nedved, Keith Primeau and Ricci were safe picks. Nedved even played for the team Canada at the World Cup, but no one had any doubts that Jagr is way more talented.

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04-07-2012, 09:54 AM
  #145
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Reality is Jagr played in the Czechoslovakian Extraleague since he was 16. At 17 years old playing on the line with Holik and Reichel he scored 18 points in 7 games at the world juniors and then they won the bronze medal at the World Championship with national team. I remember discussion which line would be better for years: Jagr-Holik-Reichel or Mogilny-Fedorov-Bure. Russians and Czechs had the rivalry going on for years. Nobody had any doubts that Jagr is a generational talent and he wasn't picked in the top-4 for the only reason - no one was sure he would ever come to the NHL.
Mogilny had to escape from Russia in 1989. He was declared a traitor in the USSR.
In 1990, the year of the Jagr draft, Fedorov escaped from the Soviets national team in Seattle and Russians started criminal desertion case. Fedorov and Mogilny weren't able to visit Russia for 5 years cause of criminal charges pressed against them.
Bure was selected 113th a year earlier for the same reason.
Nolan, Nedved, Keith Primeau and Ricci were safe picks. Nedved even played for the team Canada at the World Cup, but no one had any doubts that Jagr is way more talented.
Nedved playing for Team Canada was in the 1993-94 Canadian National Team cycle, including the 1994 Olympics. The IIHF and IOC still had the rule in place about only representing one country in your career, but there's a stipulation that if that country ceases to exist, then you can play for whomever you have citizenship for and who wants you to play for them.

Czechoslovakia ceased to exist on January 1, 1993, freeing all of the players who had previously played for them to represent whoever they wanted. Peter Stastny went to Slovakia, Petr Nedved went to Canada (he'd acquired citizenship along the way), and anyone who'd previously played for the USSR (or the Unified Team in 1992) was then free. And in the years since, other players have either declined invitations for their native country to play for another, or have played for another after not being good enough to have ever played for their native country. I know that Gates Orlando (Canadian native) has played for Italy for many years, Frank Kovacs (Canadian native) has played for Hungary, and there have been a few to represent countries like Austria who are North American natives.

I also remember reading where Petr Nedved was asked in his pre-draft interviews (by Vancouver, no less) who he would take if he had the 2nd overall pick. He immediately said "Jagr". They drafted Nedved.

EDIT: Found an old Allegheny Times article on the pick. It says that Jagr had to do the following before ever considering coming over:
1) Finish high school, which wouldn't be until October or November 1990
2) Either having a compulsory military commitment, or getting a waiver on such
3) Play for Czechoslovakia in the 1991 World Junior Championships
4) Do something about his contract with Kladno

There's also a reference to Bobby Clarke talking about Jagr being the best player in the draft; he was fired before the draft, and Philly drafted Mike Ricci.

Also, it says that Craig Patrick arranged for Jagr to have intensive lessons in English. As his future would indicate, that's a big failure on his part.

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04-08-2012, 03:20 AM
  #146
Cyclones Rock
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
It's not a personal attack when it's the truth. Many of your posts over the past few weeks have been dishonest in some form.
You disagree with my attendance estimates and somehow manage to equate that with dishonesty. Nice.

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04-08-2012, 07:31 AM
  #147
1857 Howitzer
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
You disagree with my attendance estimates and somehow manage to equate that with dishonesty. Nice.
Your estimate was a falt out lie and you were called on it by more then one poster, but you continued to act as if you were telling the truth. Also you have been in near troll mode for the past month and I find posting just to be negative and trying insight arguments to also be dishonest. This is my opinion of you as a poster and if you don't like it change your attitude or put me on you ignore list because I will continue to call out your BS as long as you continue going down this path.

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04-09-2012, 02:04 AM
  #148
Cyclones Rock
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Your estimate was a falt out lie and you were called on it by more then one poster, but you continued to act as if you were telling the truth. Also you have been in near troll mode for the past month and I find posting just to be negative and trying insight arguments to also be dishonest. This is my opinion of you as a poster and if you don't like it change your attitude or put me on you ignore list because I will continue to call out your BS as long as you continue going down this path.
My estimate was what it was. A lie? Get the drop count for the game and we'll see who was closer. In the absence of the drop count, it's a matter of opinion.

Speaking of which:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...sy-season.html

Quote:
The announced crowd for the “Fantastic Finale” was 17,652, cough, cough. The Jackets rolled to a 7-3 victory, but the game will be remembered as Rick Nash’s last twirl around Nationwide in a Jackets jersey.
Wasn't there and didn't watch it, but enjoy someone else's "lie".

Thanks for being willing to "point out my BS". You really are something else.

On another topic (same article)

Quote:
The problem is one of trust. It is clear that ownership is sticking with its current management team, including general manager Scott Howson and team president Mike Priest. These are the folks who made the current mess.
The worst tandem in the league. Only one organization would let them keep on their merry way: The NHL's Bengals. On second thought, I'll apologize to the Bengals. Even though they haven't won a playoff game since Lake Erie was a dew drop, at least they've gotten there 3 times in 8 years.

I've defended Mike Brown. Only the Blue Jackets organization could make that possible.

Imagine enthusiastically supporting a management team which has to vastly improve to be considered as competent as the Bengals management. I've never been that drunk.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-09-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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04-09-2012, 08:26 AM
  #149
1857 Howitzer
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Your "estimate" was a fabrication of the truth (a lie) in order to continue your negative agenda. And this has not been your only fabrication but yet you keep going back to it anytime I disagree with you. If you want to be negative go ahead there is lots to be negative about without making things up.

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04-09-2012, 10:48 AM
  #150
CBJBrassard16
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I was at the game, and 17K is about how many people were there. Maybe a bit over, but not much

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