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Gazette - Cherry weighs in on Habs' season

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Old
04-06-2012, 09:50 PM
  #26
Shad
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The thing with what Cherry says totally depends on the team he is talking about. If it involves Boston, Montreal, or Toronto don't bother listening. The other teams however, he knows his stuff.

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04-06-2012, 10:49 PM
  #27
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To anyone ragging on Gionta's captaincy, don't forget: we played a full season with a leadership-by-committee system before Gionta was made captain. He didn't walk in and claim anything. He worked his ass off that season, putting in the effort like he does every game, battling hard for puck, forechecking like a guy twice his size, and putting up scoring numbers like a top-liner should.

He's earned every bit of this captaincy.

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04-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
You're talking as if you know how they are in the room, how they interact with each other. You'd think Markov spends his time hiding in a corner... You need to remember that the team was changed, keeping some pieces. The remaining players were mainly still young, and you had Plekanec and Markov. You'd think after a full 82 games + playoffs you can pinpoint your leaders, regardless of what they said about their contract. Anyhow, I don't think anybody thought Gionta was going to be captain for the rest of his life.
There is a reason markov almost never does interviews and is never outspoken on the ice. Great player but he is not the kind of guy who will take charge. I don't need to be in the locker room. They picked the highest scoring player and made him captain, after dumping half the team it was clearly a mistake. Gill and Gorges have been closer to leadership material than Gionta ever was.

The team was a mangled mess of its old self with zero identity and a goof like gomez on the top line. It is shocking they didn't make Cammalleri the captain for all it mattered. Needless to say when Gionta comes back there will be no shift in the play, he will slide back in and things wont skip a beat because this is Gorges team. You just said it yourself Gionta was older and had experience but he was never the teams true captain. In the end he is a merc who could be on Columbus for all he cares, he will talk to the refs and go through the motions but Gorges runs the show. Gorges is our version of Callahan.

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04-06-2012, 11:32 PM
  #29
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Agree on those points.... Although i have nothing wrong with Gionta, Gorges is captain material. I do feel bad for cunneyworth and hope he finds a job somewhere ( or even asst again with habs, but that depends on new gm etc)

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04-06-2012, 11:37 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
There is a reason markov almost never does interviews and is never outspoken on the ice. Great player but he is not the kind of guy who will take charge. I don't need to be in the locker room. They picked the highest scoring player and made him captain, after dumping half the team it was clearly a mistake. Gill and Gorges have been closer to leadership material than Gionta ever was.

The team was a mangled mess of its old self with zero identity and a goof like gomez on the top line. It is shocking they didn't make Cammalleri the captain for all it mattered. Needless to say when Gionta comes back there will be no shift in the play, he will slide back in and things wont skip a beat because this is Gorges team. You just said it yourself Gionta was older and had experience but he was never the teams true captain. In the end he is a merc who could be on Columbus for all he cares, he will talk to the refs and go through the motions but Gorges runs the show. Gorges is our version of Callahan.
Markov is portrayed as a man of few words, but that's all it takes when you're the most respected player in the room. He's put Price and Subban both into reflection about their maturity. He's the man, C or no C on the chest.

Gionta is a lead by example Stanley Cup winner. No disrespect to the plucky Gorges, but he'll be an NHL anecdote when his career is done. Markov is a Habs legend in this era, Gionta is an overachieving winner.

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04-06-2012, 11:59 PM
  #31
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As much as I dislike Cherry, he's right on just about every point he made.
I'd venture to say that he's right on most points he makes, but he has absolutely no tack in his delivery. The message is right (more often than not) but he's not educated enough to put it in a nice way.

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04-07-2012, 12:03 AM
  #32
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Cherry might not have a degree in some elitist university but he is street smart and he has experienced events that most of us would be to coward to do so.

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04-07-2012, 12:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by thom View Post
Cherry might not have a degree in some elitist university but he is street smart and he has experienced events that most of us would be to coward to do so.


Kinda reminds me of the Bill Hicks quote: "Hey, whatcha readin' for?"

Anyways, I can't say I disagree with Cherry entirely in this article.

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04-07-2012, 12:19 AM
  #34
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I'd venture to say that he's right on most points he makes, but he has absolutely no tack in his delivery. The message is right (more often than not) but he's not educated enough to put it in a nice way.
I strongly disagree. Don Cherry is a very simple man who doesn't undrstand the game of hockey from a technical point of view. There isn't a coach in the NHL who would welcome or value any advice offered by Mr. Cherry.

This guy has never even been considered for a job with an NHL team for close to three decades. He is simply too daft to be able to absorb new concepts and is perfectly at home clowning for his drooling, knuckle dragging followers. Archie Bunker was entertaining but he was a fictional character........unfortunately Cherry is quite real.

Don Cherry rode Bobby Orr to fame and has taken advantage of that fame by being a xenophobic simpleton on HNIC. He was a terrible coach and is an even more pathetic human being.

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04-07-2012, 12:43 AM
  #35
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Bring back Saku Koivu,this team is gutless!

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04-07-2012, 05:50 AM
  #36
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Definitely right about Cunney. Feel bad for the guy.

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04-07-2012, 08:52 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I strongly disagree. Don Cherry is a very simple man who doesn't undrstand the game of hockey from a technical point of view. There isn't a coach in the NHL who would welcome or value any advice offered by Mr. Cherry.

This guy has never even been considered for a job with an NHL team for close to three decades. He is simply too daft to be able to absorb new concepts and is perfectly at home clowning for his drooling, knuckle dragging followers. Archie Bunker was entertaining but he was a fictional character........unfortunately Cherry is quite real.

Don Cherry rode Bobby Orr to fame and has taken advantage of that fame by being a xenophobic simpleton on HNIC. He was a terrible coach and is an even more pathetic human being.
amen


have we not already exposed how he lays his captain obvious eggs over the course of multiple seasons and waits for an incident to cause them to hatch?

He knows NOTHING about hockey on a professional level, it's just opinions and the same ones I hear floating around a Tim Hortons in Ontario.

He doesn't support wearing visors cuz he thinks it makes you a sissy. That alone is enough to discredit him COMPLETELY.

I saw a quote on HIO who had it as his signature, but it was a horrific statement by Cherry regarding torture of middle eastern people captured, whether with reason or not. Bigot is an understatement. And no one so out of touch with reality (and btw so right leaning) can have a grasp on ANYTHING.

Duh Gorges has character, thanks for the wisdom you goon. Gionta is a great captain IMO, so we don't have to bring up who it should be. Gorges will be the captain in a few years.

Cherry coaching a previously great NHL team would result in a 2011-2012 epic collapse. He doesn't know much about mortgages, but then again, he doesn't know much about anything.

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04-07-2012, 09:47 AM
  #38
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Sure what he says is predictable, but I don't think it's bash-worthy. I'm actually surprised at how candid he was with his comments in regards to the lack of senilities, for once.

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04-07-2012, 10:03 AM
  #39
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Definitely right about Cunney. Feel bad for the guy.
I feel bad too, but we shouldn' t

As I wrote when he was appointed as INTERIM head coach and got all these negatives reactions, the guy was in a win-win situation.

If he wins: kudos and he isa hero in Montreal

If he loses: no problem. The guy will get good offers from somewhere else because he has been thru hell in Montreal.(which is) the best place for a young coach (in experience) to learn. (see Vigneault, Julien, Therrien, etc...)

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04-07-2012, 10:04 AM
  #40
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amen


have we not already exposed how he lays his captain obvious eggs over the course of multiple seasons and waits for an incident to cause them to hatch?

He knows NOTHING about hockey on a professional level, it's just opinions and the same ones I hear floating around a Tim Hortons in Ontario.

He doesn't support wearing visors cuz he thinks it makes you a sissy. That alone is enough to discredit him COMPLETELY.

I saw a quote on HIO who had it as his signature, but it was a horrific statement by Cherry regarding torture of middle eastern people captured, whether with reason or not. Bigot is an understatement. And no one so out of touch with reality (and btw so right leaning) can have a grasp on ANYTHING.

Duh Gorges has character, thanks for the wisdom you goon. Gionta is a great captain IMO, so we don't have to bring up who it should be. Gorges will be the captain in a few years.

Cherry coaching a previously great NHL team would result in a 2011-2012 epic collapse. He doesn't know much about mortgages, but then again, he doesn't know much about anything.
Gionta is nothing special as captain. He was the best of what they had in hand. Cole and Gorges are way better leaders than him.

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04-07-2012, 10:11 AM
  #41
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I love Cherry and why is everyone ragging on our captain? Not a thing wrong with him.
I think you are on the wrong board

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04-07-2012, 10:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I strongly disagree. Don Cherry is a very simple man who doesn't undrstand the game of hockey from a technical point of view. There isn't a coach in the NHL who would welcome or value any advice offered by Mr. Cherry.

This guy has never even been considered for a job with an NHL team for close to three decades. He is simply too daft to be able to absorb new concepts and is perfectly at home clowning for his drooling, knuckle dragging followers. Archie Bunker was entertaining but he was a fictional character........unfortunately Cherry is quite real.

Don Cherry rode Bobby Orr to fame and has taken advantage of that fame by being a xenophobic simpleton on HNIC. He was a terrible coach and is an even more pathetic human being.
That is so wrong and pre-conceived on hater or lack of knowledge of the game, I don't know where to start. Because you don't like physical play or fighting in the NHL doesn't mean that it's not an important factor.

If I were to ask you if you know your hockey, you'd say that you do, right? How many pro games have you played? What's your hockey experience at a level deemed worth talking about? So because you haven't played or coached that level doesn't make you less knowledgeable, right?

So why is the fact that Cherry hasn't coached in 30 years a factor again? Because his beliefs go against yours when it comes to style of play he (and I) likes?

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04-07-2012, 10:16 AM
  #43
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Gionta is nothing special as captain. He was the best of what they had in hand. Cole and Gorges are way better leaders than him.
Unless you're in the dressing room, there's no way for you to know that.

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04-07-2012, 10:19 AM
  #44
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Unless you're in the dressing room, there's no way for you to know that.
People here know everything.

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04-07-2012, 10:25 AM
  #45
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Well, I'm still waiting for the promised insight.

makes poor Randy into a victim (nevermind his coaching was terrible).
Have you ever coached at the competitive level or do you simply observe the situation from a mathematical point of view. This was a team that was thrown into psyschological chaos with the firing of not one but two coaches in the middle of a season. It was compounded by an irrational and almost xenophobic response by the fans and media. And it didn't stop there. Gauthier saw fit to trade a player in mid-game. Then he traded a clubhouse leader in Gill and dumped one of the top five scorers on the team for a draft choice.

I can't imagine the mindset in that dressing room.

In the midst of all of this, the team was obviously rebuilding into something more physical and installing a different style of play. The old approach would take us so far but not far enough. So it became a step backward, retrench if you will before making a step forward.

Given these circumstances any team would struggle. Cunneyworth never never pointed fingers. He played the hand that was dealt to him without complaint. But you have the audicity to say "poor Randy" in a condescending manner.

That is a cheap shot.

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04-07-2012, 10:25 AM
  #46
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I don't think that Gionta is anything much as captain, but the importance of it is a bit overrated. The leadership group is solid enough, i.e. Gionta, Gorges, Cole, Markov, etc. And previously Gill. Oh, and regarding Markov, he was offered the captaincy but turned it down prior to Gionta.

It is stronger on the whole than it was in say 2009...where Koivu was of course a great captain, but there wasn't much of a leadership group- Rivet had been dealt, sure there was Markov but he seemed less vocal, Komisarek was miscast in this role, Kovalev?! Higgins?!...not really leaders. Gorges was still a bit young.

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04-07-2012, 11:41 AM
  #47
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Well, I'm still waiting for the promised insight.

What he says is 100% predictable: rails on needing toughness, character, and makes poor Randy into a victim (nevermind his coaching was terrible). Apparently he still has this weird notion that the Habs didn't know Randy didn't speak French Umm he was being sarcastic. There's nothing particularly clever or aware in any of it. I'm not sure what world you live in but, common sense doesn't seem to be so common these days.

There's little in there that's worth considering except effusive and not-undeserved praise for Josh Gorges, and the point that even Cherry would hire French-speaking administrators.Maybe he was saying this to shut the complainers up

inserted in bold

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04-07-2012, 11:55 AM
  #48
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Occasionally Cherry makes a good observation to complement his many outrageous statements but he's more of an entertainer than an imparter of hockey knowledge.

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04-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #49
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Captaincy is overrated anyway.
I disagree to a certain extent. I have a feeling that had cammalleri been given the C when it was up for grabs that he would still be with montreal today. I think he took it personal. Let's face it, the best athletes in the world often have large egos like Kovalev did. Some might say that if he couldn't put the team ahead of his pride then ***** him, but look around the league and you'll see that the captains are the best players on the team and there is no doubt that he was the best player on this team. He should have gotten the C. my 2 cents.

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04-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #50
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Have you ever coached at the competitive level or do you simply observe the situation from a mathematical point of view.
I'm actually just examining matchups and game systems. I'm not going to claim to be a giant expert on either, but one does not need to be an expert to criticize Randy on it.

Randy overplays grinders and others over players who were clearly superior. He doesn't pay a lot of attention to faceoff zones and, especially on the road, is usually content to just roll his lines 1-2-3-1-2-4, letting the opposing coach dictate the matchups.

His game system is simplistic: chip it out, pass it forward, dump it in. It is essentially kindergarten hockey, so simple it's hard to call it a "system". Consistently trading puck possession for puck position predictably results in the other team having the puck most of the time, and the predictable nature of zone exits means that opposing teams quickly adjust to them and block them off, leading to the Habs getting hemmed into their own zone.

One doesn't need to be a high-end coach to notice these things, one just has to pay attention to them.

The whole "psychological" aspect of it is grossly overstated, IMO. The players never stopped playing hard; they were doing what Randy told them to do, it's just that what he told them to do wasn't very good. If the Habs had recovered, the narrative of the team rallying around their embattled coach was there for Randy to claim. Heck you even see some of it happening despite the ghastly results.

And I have no idea why people are so enthused with the "new philosophy". It is, to put it plainly, a loser philosophy. Skill has been sacrificed on the altar of size and physicality, with utterly predictable results. That's not a step backwards to retrench, that is an obvious step in the wrong direction.

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Given these circumstances any team would struggle. Cunneyworth never never pointed fingers. He played the hand that was dealt to him without complaint. But you have the audicity to say "poor Randy" in a condescending manner.
I'm not gonna blame the guy for being thrown in a situation where he was clearly over his head, not to mention the whole language fiasco, and I'm even a fair bit sympathetic to it, but let's be realistic here. The language thing is in no way, shape, or form the reason why he failed as a coach, but the narrative is basically, "poor Randy, if only he hadn't been given such a raw deal". He would have failed even if he spoke French, and then he would've needed to be fired regardless.

It's perfectly justified to feel sympathy for the guy. But the sympathy shouldn't be used to mask his shortcomings in the job he was asked to do. Even if it's not his fault he was asked to do a job he wasn't qualified for.

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