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Old
04-07-2012, 01:31 AM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I hope you are wrong about Godard, let him sit in the AHL pressbox. I think we can and should resign Burish for cheap.

The Dowells and Petersons were not the problem this season, and as much as I want the Stars to sign players at the top of the depth chart, there aren't that many out there, and they will just sign the next few 4th liners.
You have to hope the guys you draft will be the top 6ers of the future. This is really why we're so damn antsy to see Glennie, Chiasson, Reilly Smith, Austin Smith (sorta), Matt Fraser, and that Scott Winkler guy sorta maybe eventually come to Dallas. You might be able to get one top 6 forward in free agency, but it's a bigger gamble with your money. If we're really hard up for top 6 talent we might as well get Brad Boyes or Jason Blake in here, but I am pretty sure our young guys will be able to play at an NHL level.

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Old
04-07-2012, 01:37 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
A bit late on this but this but I want to reply to it. I'd easily choose the guy who's shown he can generate chances at the NHL level, and that's Vincour.

Chiasson and Smith may have potential, but they're unknowns at this point. You can't say you'd prefer them over Vincour just on potential alone. Vincour has shown he can do everything but score at the NHL level. He's the same as everyone else on that list, and he's further along in hsi development than any of them. Is his ceiling as high? Definitely no. But he's proven more than any of them at this point.

And how can you even bring Glennie into the discussion? Glennie has proven absolutely nothing to consider him more than an AHLer for life at this point. Vincour has outproduced him at the AHL level (again small size but still) and has shown he can play at the NHL level, if at a bottom 6 level. Glennie has nothing going for him but pedigree atm. I'd take Vincour 10/10 right now because Glennie has nothing but hopes and dreams attached to him to believe he'll be a better player.
You make a good point that these players are unknowns. The Stars MO has been to give young forwards a very short leash, which I hate. I want to give Fraser/Glennie a real chance next season to see where they are. Who are they going to take those 4 minutes on the 4th line from?

I know what Vincour brings to the table, but at some point I want to see Glennie and Fraser play in some games, and with our current roster, he is the 1st man out IMO.

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Old
04-07-2012, 01:43 AM
  #203
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Well you'll see Glennie tomorrow. I agree though I want to see Fraser play some NHL games. I'm surprised he wasn't given a call up over Jordie/Dillion. They must really think he needs another year to work out his defensive game.

I'd disagree Vincour is the first man out. Morrow, Burish, etc are much more logical choices.

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04-07-2012, 01:49 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Well you'll see Glennie tomorrow. I agree though I want to see Fraser play some NHL games. I'm surprised he wasn't given a call up over Jordie/Dillion. They must really think he needs another year to work out his defensive game.

I'd disagree Vincour is the first man out. Morrow, Burish, etc are much more logical choices.
Since when does logic factor into Stars coaching decisions?

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Old
04-07-2012, 02:22 AM
  #205
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Misty, I totally disagreed with everything you said until that last post. I feel like what you're saying is closer to what will actually happen based on our idiotic coach and management, but the counterargument is what should be happening. Not sure what clicked all of a sudden, though.

I'm interested to see Morrow play healthy next year. If he plays like he did two games ago, we could get a huge return for him at the deadline.

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04-07-2012, 12:53 PM
  #206
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The Stars are in full on Zombie mode, the only difference between us and Calgary is our best players are still getting better. I don't think we should blow up the team, but if we get good offers for Robidas and Morrow we should take them. Right now Ott, Morrow, Nystrom, Fiddler, Burish, Wandel, Vincour, and Garbutt are all 3rd-4th line players on a contending team. There are 2 holes in the top 6, and realistically the team could fill one with a UFA. Giving minutes to a young guy who could be the other top 6 forward is the kind of move that could bring the Stars back to the living.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm interested to see Morrow play healthy next year. If he plays like he did two games ago, we could get a huge return for him at the deadline.
As much as I want Morrow to be healthy, I am really scared by the amount of treatment it takes for him to play.

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:58 PM
  #207
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Hopefully the surgery will completely fix that.

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Old
04-07-2012, 01:18 PM
  #208
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I made my own keep, undecided and show the door list in no particular order on the old General Stars Talk Thread. So I thought I'd post it here since no one really got to see it

Keep:
Benn
Eriksson
Garbutt (start him in the NHL come opening day, depending on how he does will determine if he stays with the big Stars)
Nystrom
Ryder
Ribeiro (But if we get a good offer, bye bye)
Vincour (Getting tired of waiting for him to start producing tbh but he stays for next year)
Daley
Larsen
Goligoski
Souray (ONLY if we reduce his minutes and use him as a 6th/7th D)
Fistric (last pairing D)
Kari
Bachman

Undecided: (wouldn't mind seeing them gone or kept)
Dvorak
Fiddler
Ott
Burish
Wandell

(Really depends on what we do come FA to decide the future of these guys IMO)

Show the Door:
Dowell
Morrow
Petersen
Robidas
Pardy

It's hard IMO but I think this is how I would want it to be. As for Reilly Smith, I think he should be down in the AHL next year to start the year.

As for the alternates and captain for next year i'd like to see this

Captain - Daley
Alternate - Eriksson
Alternate - Benn
extra Alternates - Ribeiro & Goligoski

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04-07-2012, 01:48 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB Stars View Post
I made my own keep, undecided and show the door list in no particular order on the old General Stars Talk Thread. So I thought I'd post it here since no one really got to see it

Keep:
Benn
Eriksson
Garbutt (start him in the NHL come opening day, depending on how he does will determine if he stays with the big Stars)
Nystrom
Ryder
Ribeiro (But if we get a good offer, bye bye)
Vincour (Getting tired of waiting for him to start producing tbh but he stays for next year)
Daley
Larsen
Goligoski
Souray (ONLY if we reduce his minutes and use him as a 6th/7th D)
Fistric (last pairing D)
Kari
Bachman

Undecided: (wouldn't mind seeing them gone or kept)
Dvorak
Fiddler
Ott
Burish
Wandell

(Really depends on what we do come FA to decide the future of these guys IMO)

Show the Door:
Dowell
Morrow
Petersen
Robidas
Pardy

It's hard IMO but I think this is how I would want it to be. As for Reilly Smith, I think he should be down in the AHL next year to start the year.

As for the alternates and captain for next year i'd like to see this

Captain - Daley
Alternate - Eriksson
Alternate - Benn
extra Alternates - Ribeiro & Goligoski
I never even thought of Daley as captain, he'd be a good fit I think.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:55 AM
  #210
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Gaglardi on Dallas' needs this summer:
Quote:
“I don’t see a position that we don’t need to get better at. We need more scoring depth, clearly. Secondary scoring wasn’t there when we needed it. Our top line carried us there for a while, but once it stopped we weren’t able to muster up enough offense.

“I think we’ve got to look at our power play, finished last in the league and broke a record for fewest goals as a franchise on the power play. That’s a real concern. A lot of the power play starts at the backend.

“I love our goalie. We’ve got good depth there with the kid that came up, (Richard) Bachman. I think he did a marvelous job this year. There’s also Jack Campbell in Texas, so we’re in solid shape there and these guys are all on contract, so we don’t have to worry about that position.

“But I think we have to look at everything – our scoring lines, our power play and our defense. We want to get better. I don’t think it is any one thing. We’ve got to be a deeper team. I don’t think anything has changed. We were saying that at the deadline, we’ve been saying that ever since I’ve been here.
Deadline talk was getting younger ... all the pro-veteran exodus fans should be happy.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:16 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Gaglardi on Dallas' needs this summer:


Deadline talk was getting younger ... all the pro-veteran exodus fans should be happy.


Not gonna get too excited until it actually happens, though.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:00 AM
  #212
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I'm still holding out hope that Gagliardi has Suter in his sights, and will get Joe to push hard to sign him early.

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04-08-2012, 11:12 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'll take Garrison over Robidas and Dillon over Souray most of the time. I wouldn't mind risking ~$4M on Garrison or Wideman, as long as its only for a couple years. But I really don't see either of them signing for that short when I'm sure someone will be willing to take a much bigger risk on them.
I'll gladly eat crow if this is wrong ... but there's no way Wideman is earning less than the $4.5 million he's making this season. He just finished the season with 46 points. He's one of the "better" options in free agency as well. If he signs for a two years like you want (which is highly doubtful IMO), it'll be for well over $5 million or more. The only way to keep his cap hit down will be a regrettable long-term contract.

Unless Garrison's agent is terrible, they'll turn a 16 goal season into a huge pay day rather than a two-year contract as well.

You don't get breaks when UFAs are having career years. Garrison and Wideman are the exact type of players that typically come back to haunt you as ghosts of free agency past.

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04-08-2012, 11:17 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I'll gladly eat crow if this is wrong ... but there's no way Wideman is earning less than the $4.5 million he's making this season. He just finished the season with 46 points. He's one of the "better" options in free agency as well. If he signs for a two years like you want (which is highly doubtful IMO), it'll be for well over $5 million or more. The only way to keep his cap hit down will be a regrettable long-term contract.

Unless Garrison's agent is terrible, they'll turn a 16 goal season into a huge pay day rather than a two-year contract as well.

You don't get breaks when UFAs are having career years. Garrison and Wideman are the exact type of players that typically come back to haunt you as ghosts of free agency past.
The team needs to make a significant upgrade. I have no doubt that doing so will require overpaying in dollars and term, but that is the price you pay to revive your franchise.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:21 AM
  #215
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If the only real change is letting the UFAs walk, there won't really be any change.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:26 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
The team needs to make a significant upgrade. I have no doubt that doing so will require overpaying in dollars and term, but that is the price you pay to revive your franchise.
That's not what those players represent ... and Gaglardi has already said that's not the type of move he is going to do. Signing those players would go against every comment he's made on the subject since he's taken over. He said the Dallas Stars aren't going to be the Buffalo Sabres.

Throwing major contracts at good players doesn't build a winner. The only one I think that might have a chance would be Garrison. He sort of fills the role of a guy buried in an organization. The breakout year this season eliminates from that designation exactly, but the pro scouts and GMJN might identify him as a guy who has yet to show what he could be.

That doesn't describe Wideman at all though. The argument isn't about whether or not they will spend money. The question is do you believe they are bluffing when they say they won't overpay in free agency for guys who aren't special.

Free agency for 27-30 year old players is a long-term, high dollar commitment. It's not a 2 year deal typically like Latvian is hoping for.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:38 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I'm still holding out hope that Gagliardi has Suter in his sights, and will get Joe to push hard to sign him early.
Its what I am wishing for too but I have zero hopes of it happening. Alot of people have questioned whether or not Suter is a number one defenseman, which I think its fair, but I would also say he is absolutely one of the 30 best defensemen in the league. If he isn't a number one then there are only about a dozen real number one dmen in the league.

On a search for a number one dman he would currently be our best hope. If you dont get him you're going to have to luck into one somehow. A formerly highly touted guy whos team has given up on him or a lucky gem of a pick in the draft would be your options there.

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Old
04-08-2012, 12:02 PM
  #218
Mr Misty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
That's not what those players represent ... and Gaglardi has already said that's not the type of move he is going to do. Signing those players would go against every comment he's made on the subject since he's taken over. He said the Dallas Stars aren't going to be the Buffalo Sabres.

Throwing major contracts at good players doesn't build a winner. The only one I think that might have a chance would be Garrison. He sort of fills the role of a guy buried in an organization. The breakout year this season eliminates from that designation exactly, but the pro scouts and GMJN might identify him as a guy who has yet to show what he could be.

That doesn't describe Wideman at all though. The argument isn't about whether or not they will spend money. The question is do you believe they are bluffing when they say they won't overpay in free agency for guys who aren't special.

Free agency for 27-30 year old players is a long-term, high dollar commitment. It's not a 2 year deal typically like Latvian is hoping for.
So what is the BigG44 plan for the Stars(I don't intend for this to sound hostile, and I apologize if it does)? How many pieces do the Stars need to make the playoffs, and where do you find those players?

The team is going to do something, does anybody want that something to be signing another bottom 6 forward and 7th defenseman? If they don't want to overpay, that is who will be left, and it is now time to add to the top of the depth chart rather than the bottom.

I think the team needs a defenseman and a top 6 forward to make the playoffs next year, and that a tier 2 free agent like Parenteau, Wideman, or Garrison fits that bill and must be brought in. If we overpay a little bit, we have Morrow and Robidas coming off the books soon, as well as Ribiero who is still important.

Loui-Ribs-Ryder
UFA-Benn-Cheap underperforming UFA/Morrow/Ott
Nystrom-Fiddler-Morrow/Ott
Burish-Wandell-Vincour
Garbutt-AHLer

Robidas-Goligoski
Daley-UFA
Larsen-Fistric
Dillon

Kari
Biz

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Old
04-08-2012, 12:11 PM
  #219
LatvianTwist
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What I'm hoping for and what I expect are two completely different things. Should've clarified earlier.

I'm hoping for 8-10M over two years for Wideman or Garrison.

What I expect they'll be looking for is 20-24M over four years. I'm not totally sure that's worth the gamble.

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04-08-2012, 12:26 PM
  #220
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If I were GMJN, I'd try and find a middle ground with Wideman or Garrison. 3 years, 5-6 per, or something around there.

I'd also seriously look into PAP. While Benn surely isn't Tavares, he could still put up 60 points on Benn's wing and maybe even be the playmaker Benn needs. Again, probably a similar deal, but a bit cheaper, 4-5 per.

This is what I came up with, being very generous in most everyone's contract (most are at the max I can see us offering them):

FORWARDS
Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
P-A Parenteau ($5.000m) / Jamie Benn ($6.500m) / Reilly Smith ($0.900m)
Tomas Vincour ($0.800m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m)
Colton Sceviour ($0.578m) / Tom Wandell ($0.893m) / Brenden Morrow ($4.100m)
Ryan Garbutt ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Jason Garrison ($6.000m)
Trevor Daley ($3.300m) / Brenden Dillon ($0.900m)
Mark Fistric ($2.000m) / Philip Larsen ($1.750m)
Jordie Benn ($0.578m) /
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Richard Bachman ($0.605m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,130,000; BONUSES: $355,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,170,000

Assuming we find a way to dump Robidas and Pardy both, this is what I could see. Also, I wouldn't mind Ott and Morrow being gone, but I have no idea about whether they'll actually be traded or not. I think the trade deadline would be a better time to trade them both.

It's just the term that's going to be the sticking point. However, looking at this, I'm not a big fan. Too similar to what Buffalo did, and look where that got them.

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04-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #221
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I'd rather sign semin than parenteau.

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04-08-2012, 12:44 PM
  #222
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Forgot to put this in the other post, can't edit it for some odd reason, other posts work fine though.

I personally think we should only try and sign one of PAP, Garrison, and Wideman. I'd much prefer PAP, as we don't really have a player of mold in our organization. $13M over 3 years sounds like a good deal for both sides, and Chiasson, Smith, Glennie, etc. can fight over the last spot in the top 6. Keep Robidas (blah), dump Pardy in minors, and Jo. Benn becomes the 7th D. No idea what to do with Nystrom, he just doesn't fit in without dumping Morrow or Ott and I don't see that happening.

1st line stays the same.

2nd line loses both wingers (thank god) and adds PAP. Whichever rookie wows us at TC gets the other spot.

3rd line loses Nystrom and Dvorak, but gains Vincour and Ott. Vincour is just a younger, better Dvorak, and Ott might actually be useful in a more limited role.

4th line is totally different. Wandell's there, with Morrow and Sceviour on his wings. Sceviour's earned his spot, and I'd love to at least see him get an opportunity. Morrow, well. You know.

D doesn't really need to be explained.

FORWARDS
Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
P-A Parenteau ($4.333m) / Jamie Benn ($6.000m) / Alex Chiasson ($0.900m)
Tomas Vincour ($0.800m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m)
Colton Sceviour ($0.578m) / Tom Wandell ($1.000m) / Brenden Morrow ($4.100m)
Eric Nystrom ($1.400m) / Ryan Garbutt ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Stephane Robidas ($3.300m)
Trevor Daley ($3.300m) / Brenden Dillon ($0.900m)
Mark Fistric ($2.000m) / Philip Larsen ($2.000m)
Jordie Benn ($0.578m) /
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Richard Bachman ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,188,333; BONUSES: $455,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $6,111,667

What I realistically see us coming to next year.

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04-08-2012, 01:32 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
If the only real change is letting the UFAs walk, there won't really be any change.
That won't be the only changes. They'll move some of the vets under contract. Mark my words. Gaglardi doesn't seem like one who will sit around and not let anything happen. I expect changes on this team going into next season and if we're younger, that's fine by me.

Not sure how old Parise and Suter are but I can see them going after those two hard. Aside from that, not sure what is really out there for young guys to go after. Maybe Morrow gets traded for some prospect who has potential but with his injury issues, I can't see him being worth much to teams until next years trade deadline, if he's healthy.

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Old
04-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
What I'm hoping for and what I expect are two completely different things. Should've clarified earlier.

I'm hoping for 8-10M over two years for Wideman or Garrison.

What I expect they'll be looking for is 20-24M over four years. I'm not totally sure that's worth the gamble.
Wideman and Carle are going to get $5M or more. There are many teams that can use their skills and will fork out that money and you won't be able to outbid them with that "pittance." And 4-5 years is definitely not worth the gamble especially when you consider they're both not good with shutdown prowess and both lack size. In a team already filled with Goose, Larsen, Robidas, and Daley- all under 6'0"- I don't know if I want to spend $5M on yet another undersized player. Either one of them or Goose stays.

I wouldn't mind giving Garrison a shot, since he can be Goligoski's gunner, but Florida most likely finds space for him (and Kulikov).

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04-08-2012, 01:53 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
FORWARDS
Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
P-A Parenteau ($4.333m) / Jamie Benn ($6.000m) / Alex Chiasson ($0.900m)
Tomas Vincour ($0.800m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m)
Colton Sceviour ($0.578m) / Tom Wandell ($1.000m) / Brenden Morrow ($4.100m)
Eric Nystrom ($1.400m) / Ryan Garbutt ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Stephane Robidas ($3.300m)
Trevor Daley ($3.300m) / Brenden Dillon ($0.900m)
Mark Fistric ($2.000m) / Philip Larsen ($2.000m)
Jordie Benn ($0.578m) /
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Richard Bachman ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,188,333; BONUSES: $455,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $6,111,667

What I realistically see us coming to next year.

I'll see if I can shop Morrow and Robidas cross-conference. It makes no sense having a $4.1M guy playing 4th line minutes. Carolina seems like a good destination for one of those two players.

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