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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 8.0

View Poll Results: what to do with the #3 pick?
Trade up to get Grigorenko (for #3 pick + player) 15 10.64%
Draft Forsberg 35 24.82%
Draft Galchenyuk 83 58.87%
Draft Murray 4 2.84%
other (specify) 4 2.84%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:14 AM
  #76
poetryinmotion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
I don't get why people are against taking a defenseman that much. I mean, what has been our biggest weakness this season? Obviously, we have some good depth coming up in that department, and Markov missed a large portion of the season, but if some of those prospects down pan out, or if Markov isn't back on top of his game next season... what do we do?

We can't expect to be a successful playoff team with that kind of defense. Markov will probably be gone by the end of his current contract, so we need another legit top pairing guy we can put with Subban, because no, Gorges, Emelin or anybody in this line-up is not currently a legit top pairing guy. Beaulieu might become one. Hell, even Tinordi and Ellis have a shot. But we can't know for sure.

Of course, I want the sexy pick as well, but it might not be possible if we draft 3rd or 4th, and it might even be for the better in the long run. Who knows how things will turn out.
I'm not ready to waive the white flag on Grigorenko yet, we're being too emotional about this. What if he roars back next game with 2 goals and MacKinnon gets shut down? Let's see what happens on that front.

Now, in the likely scenario that we DO take Murray (and ignore Forsberg and Galchenyuk altogether), then I want us to get an other 1st round pick somehow and draft Gaunce or an other big centerman.

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:21 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
I don't get why people are against taking a defenseman that much. I mean, what has been our biggest weakness this season? Obviously, we have some good depth coming up in that department, and Markov missed a large portion of the season, but if some of those prospects down pan out, or if Markov isn't back on top of his game next season... what do we do?

We can't expect to be a successful playoff team with that kind of defense. Markov will probably be gone by the end of his current contract, so we need another legit top pairing guy we can put with Subban, because no, Gorges, Emelin or anybody in this line-up is not currently a legit top pairing guy. Beaulieu might become one. Hell, even Tinordi and Ellis have a shot. But we can't know for sure.

Of course, I want the sexy pick as well, but it might not be possible if we draft 3rd or 4th, and it might even be for the better in the long run. Who knows how things will turn out.
The biggest issue I have regarding defenders is that this draft is very, very deep on them while the only offensively interesting forward prospect with a slim chance to drop is Hertl. When our best prospects are already Ds, I'd rather go with a high end forward when there's a good chance a very promising defender falls to where our second pick will be.

That does't mean you don't go BPA if it's clear, let's say the Oilers take Grigorenko or they take Galchenyuk if there's too much doubts about Grigorenko's intangibles, if they think Murray is a can't miss defender, and Galchenyuk/Forsberg have too many questions, than yeah, you pick Murray and have a bright future defensively, possibly trading someone down the line.

I agree picking entirely by position is a big mistake. But we really need skill, and I just don't see Murray and Dumba as that "can't miss" enough over someone like Forsberg, who has a complete skill set and has probably the most offensive upside of a great generation of Swedes.

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04-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I'm not ready to waive the white flag on Grigorenko yet, we're being too emotional about this. What if he roars back next game with 2 goals and MacKinnon gets shut down? Let's see what happens on that front.

Now, in the likely scenario that we DO take Murray (and ignore Forsberg and Galchenyuk altogether), then I want us to get an other 1st round pick somehow and draft Gaunce or an other big centerman.
We could draft Matteau or Nieves in the second round, both big centremen. No reason to waste assets in a deep draft like this one.

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04-07-2012, 12:32 AM
  #79
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We could draft Matteau or Nieves in the second round, both big centremen. No reason to waste assets in a deep draft like this one.
Don't know too much about them but I'll read up, thanks.

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04-07-2012, 01:10 AM
  #80
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The thing I like most about grabbing Forsberg is that he could play in Hamilton right away. The others can't.

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04-07-2012, 02:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
The thing I like most about grabbing Forsberg is that he could play in Hamilton right away. The others can't.
That's stupid. Why would you play an 18 year old in the AHL ffs? Ugh... if anything he stays in the Allsvenskan/SEL for 2 years.

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04-07-2012, 02:22 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
We could draft Matteau or Nieves in the second round, both big centremen. No reason to waste assets in a deep draft like this one.
Matteau might be a late 1st rounder or an early 2nd round. Nieves, I've seen his name late 2nd to 3rd round. Wilson might drop to 2nd too, and I myself would like Samuelsson and Marcantuoni in the 2nd, if available. A lot of interesting names there, I would really like if they could manage to pry another late 1st rounder, and/or another 2nd rounder.

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04-07-2012, 02:29 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
That's stupid. Why would you play an 18 year old in the AHL ffs? Ugh... if anything he stays in the Allsvenskan/SEL for 2 years.
More icetime, he can get accustomed to NA hockey which could help his transition to the NHL.

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04-07-2012, 02:40 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
More icetime, he can get accustomed to NA hockey which could help his transition to the NHL.
I think he means staying put >> Hamilton because of the level of competition which I tend to agree with. But then again we might have a powerhouse AHL team on our hands with all the newcomers, especially with Beaulieu and Tinordi making the jump. Could see Hamilton winning the Cup if Forsberg joins forces, no? That might be interesting to consider...

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04-07-2012, 02:51 AM
  #85
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I really want the Habs to pick Hudon. The guy is all skills, needs some work on his skating but you can't teach the skills he has.

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04-07-2012, 02:58 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I'm not ready to waive the white flag on Grigorenko yet, we're being too emotional about this. What if he roars back next game with 2 goals and MacKinnon gets shut down? Let's see what happens on that front.

Now, in the likely scenario that we DO take Murray (and ignore Forsberg and Galchenyuk altogether), then I want us to get an other 1st round pick somehow and draft Gaunce or an other big centerman.
MacKinnon makes things happen with his constant work ethic/drive, grit and speed. I didn't see that in Grigorenko tonight and I spoke to a scout at the game who told me he's never seen Grigs beat anyone to the outside all year. I've had multiple viewings of MacKinnon but tonight was the first time I've seen Grigs in person. I'll comment again after I see him in Game 2. He showed me some great dangles and he's good with the puck but he didn't do anything to convince me he has the drive/will or skating to be great.

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04-07-2012, 03:05 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
MacKinnon makes things happen with his constant work ethic/drive, grit and speed. I didn't see that in Grigorenko tonight and I spoke to a scout at the game who told me he's never seen Grigs beat anyone to the outside all year. I've had multiple viewings of MacKinnon but tonight was the first time I've seen Grigs in person. I'll comment again after I see him in Game 2. He showed me some great dangles and he's good with the puck but he didn't do anything to convince me he has the drive/will or skating to be great.
That's quite troubling to be honest, but I'll leave it to Timmins and just pray he makes the right call because a lot of factors could explain that. Glad I'm not in his shoes.

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04-07-2012, 03:20 AM
  #88
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Forsberg's stock has dropped.Rumor has it he may fall out of top 10.

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04-07-2012, 05:07 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Matteau might be a late 1st rounder or an early 2nd round. Nieves, I've seen his name late 2nd to 3rd round. Wilson might drop to 2nd too, and I myself would like Samuelsson and Marcantuoni in the 2nd, if available. A lot of interesting names there, I would really like if they could manage to pry another late 1st rounder, and/or another 2nd rounder.
Personally I want Bozon with our early 2nd, kid sounds like a steal the more I read about him.

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04-07-2012, 05:37 AM
  #90
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Yikes. Checked the Oilers board just to see what the thoughts were over there, and Murray definitely isn't a consensus pick for them. There are many posters who favour Grigs for the 1-2 potential that they can get from that (winning the lottery excepted of course).
How would Murray compare to a Karl Alzner in his draft year?

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04-07-2012, 06:19 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
I don't get why people are against taking a defenseman that much. I mean, what has been our biggest weakness this season? Obviously, we have some good depth coming up in that department, and Markov missed a large portion of the season, but if some of those prospects down pan out, or if Markov isn't back on top of his game next season... what do we do?

We can't expect to be a successful playoff team with that kind of defense. Markov will probably be gone by the end of his current contract, so we need another legit top pairing guy we can put with Subban, because no, Gorges, Emelin or anybody in this line-up is not currently a legit top pairing guy. Beaulieu might become one. Hell, even Tinordi and Ellis have a shot. But we can't know for sure.

Of course, I want the sexy pick as well, but it might not be possible if we draft 3rd or 4th, and it might even be for the better in the long run. Who knows how things will turn out.

I know that doesn't tell the whole story, but we have the 4th less goals against scored in the East. Only the Rangers, the Bruins and the Devils have allowed less goals in the Conference.

I'm not sure our defense is that far from being good. A good defensive D will do it for next year. An 18 year old Murray, I'm not so sure...

Though, where you're right, we'll need a stud when Markov retires. Murray could be that guy in a few years, that's why I'd be OK with him being picked.

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04-07-2012, 06:32 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
How would Murray compare to a Karl Alzner in his draft year?
He doesn't compare. Murray has much more offensive upside than Alzner. Murray's a beautiful skater. His style is more like a Niedermayer or a Redden (when he was good).

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04-07-2012, 06:50 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
He doesn't compare. Murray has much more offensive upside than Alzner. Murray's a beautiful skater. His style is more like a Niedermayer or a Redden (when he was good).
Murray can't be much better offensively as only 31 points in 46 games, roughly same average as Alzner who had 47 points in 63 games. I think Murray may be a better skater but Alzner bigger and stronger at 18. Overall, equal prospects but different qualities?

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04-07-2012, 06:52 AM
  #94
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Are people upset at Grigs and we haven't even drafted him yet ?

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04-07-2012, 07:04 AM
  #95
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Are people upset at Grigs and we haven't even drafted him yet ?
I don't think we'll be drafting Grigs if our current scouting staff makes the call.

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04-07-2012, 07:07 AM
  #96
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Murray can't be much better offensively as only 31 points in 46 games, roughly same average as Alzner who had 47 points in 63 games. I think Murray may be a better skater but Alzner bigger and stronger at 18. Overall, equal prospects but different qualities?
You're right....their qualities are different. Also dont discount that Murray played on a weak offensive team.

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04-07-2012, 07:31 AM
  #97
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I really want the Habs to pick Hudon. The guy is all skills, needs some work on his skating but you can't teach the skills he has.
And for me, I don't want him. Not denying the skills, yet, I've seen him at least 15 times this year whether it's live or TV and I always came unimpressed. I guess I wasn't lucky to see him on good days. Yet, I guess that if he's there in the 3rd round, it makes him an obvious pick.

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04-07-2012, 09:06 AM
  #98
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If there's one thing about the Habs and Timmins it's that they're not afraid to go off the reservation.

No one and I mean no one knew who or thought Price would have been a pick, same with PK or with Fischer. They march to the beat of their own drum and draft who THEY think is the BPA. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't but with a pick this high, I'd have to think that the odds of them getting a great player are very high. Plus, you never know, maybe we win the draft lottery and grab Yakopov.

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04-07-2012, 09:12 AM
  #99
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I think Timmins will do us good with his first selection whomever he might choose. I would also add my voice to selecting Boo (Nieve), Hudon and another guy from the Q in Bussiere. I was at a Titan game not long ago and an older gent there who has seen Hudon play many times told me that he believes Hudon is much like Giroux when he was younger.

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04-07-2012, 09:19 AM
  #100
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And for me, I don't want him. Not denying the skills, yet, I've seen him at least 15 times this year whether it's live or TV and I always came unimpressed. I guess I wasn't lucky to see him on good days. Yet, I guess that if he's there in the 3rd round, it makes him an obvious pick.
He has been disapppointing this season. I thought he would be on MacKinnon and Grigorenko's level but he wasn't.

I think he'll still be available in the 3rd-4th rounds.

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