Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
I get what the OP is doing here. By the time the Habs are in a position to contend Cole will probably be done. Exploring what future assets they could get for him that would pay dividends once the Habs eventually start getting better again is worth a look. His value will never again be as high as it's now.
He has pretty good wheels and 3 years left on his deal. And while it probably won't actually work out this way, I think the Habs braintrust will *want* to approach the next 3 seasons as 1st-year-make-the-playoffs/2nd-year-make-it-further-in-the-playoffs/3rd-year-contend. Cole has big value to the Habs in any of those segments, even if the objectives slide out a bit.
Anyway, on his trade value, I will presume it's not quite highest right now, but rather will be at a trade deadline if he's having another solid season. For a veteran non-superstar player with a large enough contract, I don't think the trade value is necessarily there in the off-season, regardless of whether he's coming off a career-best season or not.
Doesn't really matter to me, I wouldn't be looking to trade him and would have no expectations that any team out there would be sufficiently interested to catch my eye with an offer.
You tell yourself what you want to believe. When Cole's healthy, he can play like he's played this year and like he played in Carolina last year. Carolina fans have also seen what he plays like when he's not healthy, when he's recovering from an injury. It's night and day.
No GM is going to trade anything worth trading him for. He's 34, he's an injury-risk on both upper and lower body, and at 4.5 for three more years, there's no way a GM is going to overpay for that kind of risk. He's simply more valuable to the Habs than whatever they could get for him would be.
Although I do find it funny that after one year, Hab fans are apparently experts on Cole. Surely, the fans that have watched him in the other 9 years of his career have no idea what they're talking about.
Cole had 2 seasons with serious injuries. i can see why you would be surprised he played poorly in those seasons. Most players do their best in those injury shortened seasons...
Malkin missed a significant amount of games with knee injuries, Crosby lost almost an entire season to a concussion, as have many other players. Heck, look at how injury prone Hemsky is and check out the contract he has. I guess Pacioretty is worthless after his severe injury last year. Like you said, when Cole is NOT injured, he is a terrific player, as seen in this 1st season with Montreal. 4.5 million is also not that high a cap hit for a guy who has scored over 20 goals 5 times in his career and over 30 goals twice. He is a terrific power forward who hits, goes to the net, is strong on the puck, and is an amazing presence in the locker room. Surely one of the Carolina fans who watched him for 9 years seems confused about the guy when that fan thinks he would have no value to other teams due to an injury concern that has not shown itself for over 200 consecutive games. I know, I know, 34 years old means nobody wants you. I think players like Marleau, Selanne, Ray Whitney, Iginla, and others would still hold value to teams they are not playing on even though they are 34 years old or more. YOU might not think Cole would have value to other teams, but I am certain a majority of teams would disagree with you. Most teams would like a 1st line 34 goal scoring power forward with almost 200 hits this season on a comparatively cheap contract (check out the money paid to Grabovski and Leino this past off season and compare their seasons to Cole's). You can try and tell yourself otherwise to minimize the hurt you feel for your team foolishly letting Cole walk, but the rest of us know why you are saying what you are saying.
Of course, it doesn't matter what other teams think. The Habs picked up a gem and would be idiots to destroy their top line that is playing well and with chemistry just to get some mid to late 1st round pick that might or might not pan out down the road. Cole is exactly what we have needed for awhile:a big power forward who hits, drives the net, scores, is defensively responsible with great character and work ethic. No need to trade him, especially since we have him signed for 3 more years!
Wasn't a big fan of this guy before the start of the season, but I am now.
Is value is at an all time high right now......to us! We wouldn't get back what he means to us right now.
His contribution to the Habs is huge. Not only his production but the influence that he has had on MaxPac (and Desharnais). You can see MaxPac emulating Cole out there, blowing by defenders and sniping. He has developed a confidence about him which is remarkable considering the hurdle he overcame after the Chara incident. Cole has a lot to do with that.
Habs cannot trade Cole - he's too valuable to the development of our young players.
Malkin missed a significant amount of games with knee injuries, Crosby lost almost an entire season to a concussion, as have many other players. Heck, look at how injury prone Hemsky is and check out the contract he has. I guess Pacioretty is worthless after his severe injury last year. Like you said, when Cole is NOT injured, he is a terrific player, as seen in this 1st season with Montreal. 4.5 million is also not that high a cap hit for a guy who has scored over 20 goals 5 times in his career and over 30 goals twice. He is a terrific power forward who hits, goes to the net, is strong on the puck, and is an amazing presence in the locker room. Surely one of the Carolina fans who watched him for 9 years seems confused about the guy when that fan thinks he would have no value to other teams due to an injury concern that has not shown itself for over 200 consecutive games. I know, I know, 34 years old means nobody wants you. I think players like Marleau, Selanne, Ray Whitney, Iginla, and others would still hold value to teams they are not playing on even though they are 34 years old or more. YOU might not think Cole would have value to other teams, but I am certain a majority of teams would disagree with you. Most teams would like a 1st line 34 goal scoring power forward with almost 200 hits this season on a comparatively cheap contract (check out the money paid to Grabovski and Leino this past off season and compare their seasons to Cole's). You can try and tell yourself otherwise to minimize the hurt you feel for your team foolishly letting Cole walk, but the rest of us know why you are saying what you are saying.
The MaxPac comparison is a perfect one, considering the similarity in their injuries. Yes, both Cole and MaxPac are healthy right now and succeeding. But you and everyone else knows that they have a higher injury risk than most other players because of those neck injuries they sustained. I don't know about MaxPac, but Cole himself has said as much. Every hit has that added risk of tweaking them just right to aggravate that neck injury.
He had the broken neck from Orpik in the 05-06 season, then had to be taken off on a stretcher after colliding with Vokoun on a rush during the 07-08 season. It was a neck concern, and ultimately turned out to be nothing major, but Cole played the rest of that season really tentative (and who could blame him?). He gets traded to the Oilers because of that tentative play. When he returns to Carolina, he loses most of the season because of a broken leg, and the 40 games he did play were well below the play he's shown of late.
It's got nothing to do with Cole leaving the Carolina organization. JR made him an offer, Montreal made him a better one. I don't blame Cole at all for taking the extra money and the extra year. It's a simple matter of looking at it from an opposing GMs point of view and understanding risk management. There are too many risks right now with regards to Cole to get a good deal for him, especially locked into 3 more years of a contract. If he repeats this performance next year, a lot of those risks disappear and then you'll get a deal closer to his actual value.
Bottom line is that this league is a "what have you done for me now" league when it comes to player values. A guy like Hartnell was the equivalent of a salary dump 2 years ago and is now a valuable asset. A guy like Lupul was a salary dump to the Leafs and now holds value in a potential trade after a huge season (even with injuries and his injury history).
Cole would garner an excellent return if he were to be available. (ie. much better than a 1st round pick). There are few 30+ goal scoring power forwards in the league. If one was available via trade, it would garner huge interest from teams that are competing now.
You're about as accurate on this one as you were on the Scott Gomez trade. They'd be lucky to get anything more than a mid-low first for an aging player with an injury history and term left on his contract. And this is coming from someone who has been a huge Erik Cole fan for years and always wanted him on my team.
For my money, there isn't an avatar at HF that makes me smile more than yours, because it couldn't possibly be a worse description of you.
Nashville gave a first for Paul freaking Gaustad...Cole is worth a 1st from any team
Trade deadline "need" versus offseason deal? Nope, won't get more than a late 1st. Has only hit 30 goals twice in his career as well, he is more of a 20-25 goal scorer than anything. Didn't even break 60 points this year, with 34 goals.
Unlikely to be moved, simply because of value to the Habs>>value to another team. There are a ton of teams that NEED a guy like him (PF with speed and heart), but he's not getting any younger and he's at the age where you start thinking "can he remain valuable at the end of his contract?". Meanwhile, he's a 33 yr old who had a career year in Montreal with two young guys that will be back next year, so Montreal isn't in a rush to deal him at all. If he is moved, it'll be for a 1st + a good prospect at the deadline, and likely in the bottom end of his contract if he maintains his level of play.
He's a tireless worker and his fitness level seems to indicate that he will somewhat be useful even if his speed gives out, so I'm in no hurry to rush him. I'm sure the new Habs GM will listen to offers for him, I just doubt he'll hear anything to get him to even remotely consider dealing him.
I think the 3 years at 4.5 for a 34 year old player is more of a deterrant than his over stated injury issues.
He's played in approx. 85% of his teams games over the course of his career.
87% of his teams games over the last 5 seasons
Power forwards tend NOT to play complete seasons due to the nature of their game. Just under 90% of his teams games is a respectable number for an aging PF like Cole.
The MaxPac comparison is a perfect one, considering the similarity in their injuries. Yes, both Cole and MaxPac are healthy right now and succeeding. But you and everyone else knows that they have a higher injury risk than most other players because of those neck injuries they sustained. I don't know about MaxPac, but Cole himself has said as much. Every hit has that added risk of tweaking them just right to aggravate that neck injury.
He had the broken neck from Orpik in the 05-06 season, then had to be taken off on a stretcher after colliding with Vokoun on a rush during the 07-08 season. It was a neck concern, and ultimately turned out to be nothing major, but Cole played the rest of that season really tentative (and who could blame him?). He gets traded to the Oilers because of that tentative play. When he returns to Carolina, he loses most of the season because of a broken leg, and the 40 games he did play were well below the play he's shown of late.
It's got nothing to do with Cole leaving the Carolina organization. JR made him an offer, Montreal made him a better one. I don't blame Cole at all for taking the extra money and the extra year. It's a simple matter of looking at it from an opposing GMs point of view and understanding risk management. There are too many risks right now with regards to Cole to get a good deal for him, especially locked into 3 more years of a contract. If he repeats this performance next year, a lot of those risks disappear and then you'll get a deal closer to his actual value.
Based on what?
His career best in goals scored this year?
His 200+ games without any recurrence of injury?
His second season in a row with 26 or more goals and over 50 points?
His combined 400+ hits given out over the last 2 seasons?
The 4.5 million he got when compared to other players from his free agent class with similar points who performed far worse this season?
His age being 34 but his skills obviously NOT declining as exhibited by his continued production, his INCREASED production, for 2 consecutive seasons?
I love how people want to try and make up reasons that aren't there for why Cole is worth a late 1st round pick. No Habs fan is saying he is worth a 1st overall pick, but if you think he is not worth a #8-16 pick plus some small extra, you really do not understand the value of a power forward in this league. He is not getting the money of a Rick Nash, but he certainly produced at a comparable level to him on the scoreboard over the last 2 seasons while outhitting him over those 2 seasons. Nash has also seen his point totals drop while Cole's have gone up. No, Cole has not had as good of a career as Nash or other players he has produced at a similar pace to this season, but unlike quite a few of them, he has seen his points totals go up for 2 consecutive seasons and still plays hard hitting aggressive hockey while having aged.
Meh, you can all keep thinking garbage offers are fair value, the Habs will happily keep him and watch him be a productive player for our team. It works out well this way and allows us all to be happy.
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NathanHortonFan Inconsistent, injury prone. Coming off a decent season.... not too much. As someone said, a late first. Maybe an alright prospect as well.
I guess you would accept a late 1st for Nathan Horton, then? Maybe an alright prospect? Good to know.
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NYR Sting
You're about as accurate on this one as you were on the Scott Gomez trade. They'd be lucky to get anything more than a mid-low first for an aging player with an injury history and term left on his contract. And this is coming from someone who has been a huge Erik Cole fan for years and always wanted him on my team.
For my money, there isn't an avatar at HF that makes me smile more than yours, because it couldn't possibly be a worse description of you.
I thought moderators were supposed to make certain people DIDN'T insult others on this site. I guess the rules don't apply to you.
So, because of one assessment of a trade for a player who helped his team go to the ECF, you get to slam a guy for no good reason? How many ECF has McDonaugh helped the Rangers reach since the trade? How many times have the Rangers MADE the playoffs since the trade? Gomez is an albatross contract now, but he did perform well for us his first season, and even did ok his second. He did not live up to his contract, but that was Sather's stupidity and Gainey's idiocy, not Gomez' fault. He was NEVER worth the money he got, but he has been good enough to help us to an ECF. Contrary to popular belief, Halak didn't score any goals and wasn't assisting on all of the ones he didn't score.
One would hope a moderator wouldn't insult others for what is ARGUABLY a mistaken evaluation for a trade from 3 years ago.
He's really not. He'll be 34 next season and has a long history of injuries. The fact that he's been healthy the past two seasons is fantastic, but in no way is a predictor of how healthy he'll be his last three seasons of his current contract (34, 35, 36 years old).
He's tradeable, no doubt, but the two main things that GM's look at when making a trade are risk and value. His age, injury history, and remaining contract make acquiring Cole somewhat risky in a lot of ways, and most GM's simply don't have enough equity built up to take that kind of risk.
Too low of a return for what he's worth to the Habs at this time. If we are free falling again next year at the deadline and he's a force all season like he was, I'm sure 20 GM's with the playoffs in mind would be happy throwing a 1st + probably a bit more at the Habs for him.
Lesser players have certainly returned more at the deadline.
Basically, his value in the offseason <<< his value at the trade deadline.
A guy with Cole's injury history on his contract is not going to get much in a trade, great season or not.
So if he was available this year do you think NSH would have still went with Gaustad + A Kost for a 1st and 2nd?
Perhaps if Cole was available they would have given that up for him alone. I'll tell you which option would have given them a better chance of winning this year. (I don't think I have to)
Do teams sacrifice their future (draft picks or contracts) to win this year? You tell me...
So if he was available this year do you think NSH would have still went with Gaustad + A Kost for a 1st and 2nd?
Perhaps if Cole was available they would have given that up for him alone. I'll tell you which option would have given them a better chance of winning this year. (I don't think I have to)
I don't pay enough attention to Nashville to judge their team. I'm sure when they grabbed those two players, they had a reason for it. Would they have gone after Cole? Possibly. They might have passed on him as well. Since it's a hypothetical, you can't exactly claim one way or the other.
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin
Do teams sacrifice their future (draft picks or contracts) to win this year? You tell me...
Of course they do. Now tell me how many teams that plan to win THIS YEAR grab aging players on extended contracts? Usually if the plan is to win a Cup that year, they grab upcoming UFA/RFAs, because it means you've got the core pieces and are just looking for the right combination of complementary guys.
Again, the concept of risk management is just completely foreign to those here. Say Cole got traded to Nashville and he just didn't fit in (similar to his time in Edmonton). Now they've got a square peg in a round hole for 3 more years. Or say Cole takes a hit, tweaks his neck and plays the remainder of his contract on and off IR. Or his age starts to become a factor. Or this year in Montreal turns out to be a fluke. Too many risks to give up a lot for Cole on his current contract.
Like I said earlier, one year of watching the guy and now Montreal fans are Cole experts. He may very well be this player for the remaining 3 years of his deal. I hope he is, because again, he's played most of his time in Carolina and many here still love the guy. But we've also seen Cole when he's not this player, usually because of one injury or another. And if that happens, you're going to run him out of town.
I don't pay enough attention to Nashville to judge their team. I'm sure when they grabbed those two players, they had a reason for it. Would they have gone after Cole? Possibly. They might have passed on him as well. Since it's a hypothetical, you can't exactly claim one way or the other.
Of course they do. Now tell me how many teams that plan to win THIS YEAR grab aging players on extended contracts? Usually if the plan is to win a Cup that year, they grab upcoming UFA/RFAs, because it means you've got the core pieces and are just looking for the right combination of complementary guys.
Again, the concept of risk management is just completely foreign to those here. Say Cole got traded to Nashville and he just didn't fit in (similar to his time in Edmonton). Now they've got a square peg in a round hole for 3 more years. Or say Cole takes a hit, tweaks his neck and plays the remainder of his contract on and off IR. Or his age starts to become a factor. Or this year in Montreal turns out to be a fluke. Too many risks to give up a lot for Cole on his current contract.
Like I said earlier, one year of watching the guy and now Montreal fans are Cole experts. He may very well be this player for the remaining 3 years of his deal. I hope he is, because again, he's played most of his time in Carolina and many here still love the guy. But we've also seen Cole when he's not this player, usually because of one injury or another. And if that happens, you're going to run him out of town.
fluke ? not sure how many habs games u watched this year but we've had the worst team in the league and if it wasnt for that Cole line trust me Yakupov would be a lock 100% guaranteed,i understand hes age plays a big factor but Cole became a fan favorite real quick,dude works his ass off EVERY shift and trust me teams would overpay for a vet with a cup ring coming off a career high season playing with a rookie centerman,and why u talking about IF he gets injured ? dude hasnt missed a game in forever,its a contact sport here,ne one can get injured at any time.if thats the way u see trades then that "if he gets injured" can go for every player in the league
He's got value, but I am not sure a team possessing a top 15 would be interested in giving up futures for a 33 yr old.
Perhaps a late 1st + prospect/roster player and another pick depending on the latter.
Wouldn't mind him on Toronto but not sure we'd be interested in giving up futures like a contender would.
That's what makes Toronto stuck between a rock and a hard place. Not bashing your post, or anything, but Toronto wants big body players. It's risky to trade for them and hard to draft ones that will work out.
Habs have 3 big body players. 2 are working out. One is struggling, but in my opinion he's at least doing some little things right to help the team (Bourque)
Hypothetically, if Bourque was doing well, or Pacs, Cole and DD didn't click so well, but Cole was playing well on another line I might be open to trading him, but right now I'd rather keep him. The guy is great on the ice this season and he's great off the ice with Pacs, but also other players.
Leblanc's first NHL game, Cole give him a credit card and told him to get his (Leblanc's) parents to his first game in Anaheim I believe.
I don't pay enough attention to Nashville to judge their team. I'm sure when they grabbed those two players, they had a reason for it. Would they have gone after Cole? Possibly. They might have passed on him as well. Since it's a hypothetical, you can't exactly claim one way or the other.
As a hypothetical, I actually do not think Nashville would have gone for Cole instead of AK because of the significantly increased cost to get Cole and the fact that they felt they needed Gaustad.
Of course they do. Now tell me how many teams that plan to win THIS YEAR grab aging players on extended contracts? Usually if the plan is to win a Cup that year, they grab upcoming UFA/RFAs, because it means you've got the core pieces and are just looking for the right combination of complementary guys.
Again, it depends upon the cost. MOST teams do not ONLY think about winning this year.
Again, the concept of risk management is just completely foreign to those here. Say Cole got traded to Nashville and he just didn't fit in (similar to his time in Edmonton). Now they've got a square peg in a round hole for 3 more years. Or say Cole takes a hit, tweaks his neck and plays the remainder of his contract on and off IR. Or his age starts to become a factor. Or this year in Montreal turns out to be a fluke. Too many risks to give up a lot for Cole on his current contract.
Try not to get oo full of yourself. As a Habs fan, believe me, I and most of us, have plenty of recent experience in the risk/reward department thanks to Markov. Ther thing you don't understand is that Cole has not played the way Komisarek did after Lucic injured him. Cole has proven he is recovered from the injury and plays hard, aggressive hockey having delivered over 400 hits in the last two healthy seasons! That is clear and demonstrable proof that he is NOT this huge injury risk you want to paint him as. You keep assuming his 4.5 million for 3 more years is a problem, but the reality is that it can be seen as an asset. You get more in a trade for a player with an extension than you do for players becoming free agents as long as the contract is manageable. 4.5 million for 3 years for a guy who is a proven 25-30 (with a small + due to this year) goal scorer while playing a physical game and making his line mates better, and without any character issues, great leadership skills, etc...is a bargain. Yes, it is possible he will be a round circle in a square peg. It is also possible you get the guy who scored 34 goals on the third worst team in the league in spite of an idiot coach at the start of the season who had not clue how to use him and didn't give him power play time.
Like I said earlier, one year of watching the guy and now Montreal fans are Cole experts. He may very well be this player for the remaining 3 years of his deal. I hope he is, because again, he's played most of his time in Carolina and many here still love the guy. But we've also seen Cole when he's not this player, usually because of one injury or another. And if that happens, you're going to run him out of town.
Again, try not to be so ignorant towards hockey fans just because they are Montreal fans. I have been watching the Habs for 3.5 decades. I have watched multiple other teams and games over the last 7 years because I am in multiple hockey pools (never finished less than 2nd in 7 years) and research every player in the league I possibly can in order to find those gems that can help me get better each season (it is why I managed to get Jay Harrison as a free agent when he became hot, this season). I have spent far more than this single season watching Cole, the Hurricanes and every other team in the league I can possibly find the time to watch (it is why I was so peeved when someone stole Skinner from me a round before me in our draft, why I had various Hurricanes players on my team throughout the season, why I desperately tried to get Staal from a guy in the league when Staal was struggling, why I think McBain is a terrific player, why I love Cam Ward as a model of consistently great play over the course of a season, etc...). So please keep the condescension to a minimum, not all fans of one team are ignorant of other teams.
Most players do their best in those injury shortened seasons... 
