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Roberto Luongo to Toronto

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Old
04-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #126
CloutierForVezina
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I'll respectfully disagree. Phaneuf's faults become glaringly obvious because he's responsible for being the go-to shutdown guy on the Leafs as well as their PP specialist. He would be a top 5 defenseman in the league if he played first-pair with a shutdown, defensive specialist (I'm looking at you, Ryan Suter) that could shore up his weaknesses and just let him focus on his game -- leading the offense and throwing huge hits.
No defenseman deserves to be considered a top-5 defenseman in the game if he needs to be babysat by another top tier player in order to be an asset to his club.

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04-07-2012, 01:47 PM
  #127
Marlo Stanfield
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Not trying to diminish Luongo's value nor Phaneuf's but when moving Luongo, the Canucks are ideally trying to get someone with a LOWER cap hit than Luongo so they can give Schneider a bit of a raise yet have the same flexibility.

Ideal pieces: Gardiner/Schenn/Gunnarson along with a 2nd. A young defenseman on a reasonable or ELC who can solidify Canucks top 4. But we know how Leafs fans are when the subject of Gardiner or Gunnar gets brought up to being put in a trade.

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04-07-2012, 02:00 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Kenny Jonsson View Post
Not trying to diminish Luongo's value nor Phaneuf's but when moving Luongo, the Canucks are ideally trying to get someone with a LOWER cap hit than Luongo so they can give Schneider a bit of a raise yet have the same flexibility.

Ideal pieces: Gardiner/Schenn/Gunnarson along with a 2nd. A young defenseman on a reasonable or ELC who can solidify Canucks top 4. But we know how Leafs fans are when the subject of Gardiner or Gunnar gets brought up to being put in a trade.
We would be looking for that immeadiately. None of those three, with the possible exception of Schenn, does that for us. Salo will be returning, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis are all under contract, Tanev is looking more and more like he deserves to be on this team, and even our whipping boy Ballard has been great this year (our teams "skid" started after Ballard was diagnosed with his concussion). Not to mention our current Wolves that are getting closer and closer to making the team. If that doesn't immeadiately rule Gardiner and Gunnarsson out, who haven't made the Leafs full time, I don't see them being a guarenteed improvement over what we have already, and even Schenn's inclusion wouldn't be a big enough upgrade.

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04-07-2012, 02:14 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
We would be looking for that immeadiately. None of those three, with the possible exception of Schenn, does that for us. Salo will be returning, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis are all under contract, Tanev is looking more and more like he deserves to be on this team, and even our whipping boy Ballard has been great this year (our teams "skid" started after Ballard was diagnosed with his concussion). Not to mention our current Wolves that are getting closer and closer to making the team. If that doesn't immeadiately rule Gardiner and Gunnarsson out, who haven't made the Leafs full time, I don't see them being a guarenteed improvement over what we have already, and even Schenn's inclusion wouldn't be a big enough upgrade.
Ballard has played better but out teams skid had little to do with him being out of the line up.

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04-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Ballard has played better but out teams skid had little to do with him being out of the line up.
I believe it is a contributing factor. You could be right, but it would be a huge coincidence if both were entirely unrelated. It is more the defensive side of the skid, I should have been clear, and looking at the +/- numbers and ice time and the like, I have looked at the same data and come to a different conclusion. I will agree that it's definately not ALL Ballard being out though.

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04-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I believe it is a contributing factor. You could be right, but it would be a huge coincidence if both were entirely unrelated. It is more the defensive side of the skid, I should have been clear, and looking at the +/- numbers and ice time and the like, I have looked at the same data and come to a different conclusion. I will agree that it's definately not ALL Ballard being out though.
I'm sure it's not entirely unrelated but who knows. The whole "the team did better, did worse, with/without player x" is bunk for the most part.


At this rate we should sit Daniel Sedin out.

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04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
  #132
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As a canadiens fan I'd love to see him in Toronto so he can play on a terrible team and be exposed for the terrible goalie he is. He does not make the Canucks better they make him LOOK better. Luongo did not win the gold medal for Canada in fact he almost blew it for being usual choking self in the last two minutes. Even with that defense he was brutal when it came time to close it out. Keep Schneider and get rid of luongo to anybody especially the leafs so I won't have to watch him in the olympics in 2014. That should be enough time for people to get their heads on straight and take fluery as their #1

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04-09-2012, 11:22 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by jayball75 View Post
As a canadiens fan I'd love to see him in Toronto so he can play on a terrible team and be exposed for the terrible goalie he is. He does not make the Canucks better they make him LOOK better. Luongo did not win the gold medal for Canada in fact he almost blew it for being usual choking self in the last two minutes. Even with that defense he was brutal when it came time to close it out. Keep Schneider and get rid of luongo to anybody especially the leafs so I won't have to watch him in the olympics in 2014. That should be enough time for people to get their heads on straight and take fluery as their #1
Yeah, because Florida and the immediate post lock out Canucks were all stellar squads, right?

Not counting Fleury's 03-04 season, on a terrible team where he was a call up and I think a third stringer with very few games (21 games I think), Fleury has had 2 seasons with better statistical averages then Luongo's worst with Florida, which during his time with the team, wasn't very good at all. Better stats then every category but wins.

His best season with an abysmal Canucks team in 06-07 is still better then Fleury's best season (2.29 GAA, 0.921 S% with 47 wins in 76 games played vs. 2.33 GAA, a 0.921 S% with 19 wins in 35 games). Ask Canucks fans. Ask anyone that watch the team in our division, or conference. Our team was terrible. The Sedins hadn't broken out, Kesler and Burrows were just starting to work their magic, Naslund was in and out and our Defense consisted of the oft injured Ohlund, Mitchell and Salo, with Krajicek and brand new to the NHL Bieksa and Edler were our regulars. Sopel, McIver, Coulombe, Fitzpatrick and other "C" list starters also subbed in for injuries. Hell of a team he set that record with eh?

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04-09-2012, 11:40 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Phaneuf>>Luongo AINEC

Luongo is a cap dump, not a top 5 goalie. Phaneuf is a #1 or #2 d-man on a team.
A Cap Dump with a gold medal and a trip to the cup finals...

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04-10-2012, 12:10 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by jayball75 View Post
As a canadiens fan I'd love to see him in Toronto so he can play on a terrible team and be exposed for the terrible goalie he is. He does not make the Canucks better they make him LOOK better. Luongo did not win the gold medal for Canada in fact he almost blew it for being usual choking self in the last two minutes. Even with that defense he was brutal when it came time to close it out. Keep Schneider and get rid of luongo to anybody especially the leafs so I won't have to watch him in the olympics in 2014. That should be enough time for people to get their heads on straight and take fluery as their #1
Oh please this is ridiculous. Do you remember the goal? Shot from the boards, deflected from the hashmarks, Luongo makes the 1st save but the defence leaves two USA players alone in front. Parise pots the GTG on the rebound.

Obviously he choked... choked all the way to a gold medal

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04-10-2012, 01:23 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
And last year his save %age was .914. And he single-handedly won a playoff series against Dallas when their goalie put up 3 SOs.

But this is all moot, anyway. Leafs fans obviously don't want him, and we aren't interested in giving you either of our goalies.

"My Pontiac Fiero is better on gas and cheaper to insure than your Lamborghini Diablo, and the Diablo tends to shimmy a bit when you go above 200 kph. Therefore, my Fiero is the better car."
LOL at Luongo the Lamorghini! Who's going to pump his tires?!?

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Old
04-10-2012, 03:32 AM
  #137
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Leafs will never take on Luongo's contract.

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04-10-2012, 03:42 AM
  #138
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Even if he has "Conn Smythe" and "Vezina" winning as part of his title, Leaf fans will still dillude themselves into thinking wvry one of their players is somehow better. no one can force them to want a player they need, even if they dont have the assets to realistically trade for him, all the terrible excuses are showing me theyre happier trolling and not watching Canucks, or other teams', games and forming their opinions on what media meat puppets have to say. It will be a long, long summer for them to mull over their franchises continuing decline, and they have that they can say to make me feel worseabout Luongo, Kesler or anyone else with a "value of" thread about them then id feel having to watch my team be stuck in the bottom 5 year after year.
Hypocrisy. I'm sorry but how can you be up on your high horse when your team hasn't won anything either. That's the goal ya know, to win it all. What you don't seem to fathom is that a goalie in his 30's, signed until he's in his 40's in not a desirable contract. A cap dump, no. Undesirable, yes. The Canucks sucked at one point to you know. Please, inform me how you got the Sedins again? I'm dying to know.

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04-10-2012, 04:07 AM
  #139
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Luongo would be the Leafs best player, by far.

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04-10-2012, 04:09 AM
  #140
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Luongo would be the Leafs best player, by far.
No Kessel would.

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04-10-2012, 06:38 AM
  #141
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[QUOTE=Campoli2Burrows;47646799]Oh please this is ridiculous. Do you remember the goal? Shot from the boards, deflected from the hashmarks, Luongo makes the 1st save but the defence leaves two USA players alone in front. Parise pots the GTG on the rebound.

Obviously he choked... choked all the way to a gold medal
[/QUOTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZRrOQzV2VY

Here's a reminder for ya. Watch the thirty foot rebound off a shot to his glove that keeps play going then the goal after. You don't need to compare stats only the fact that fluery won a cup, was one of the biggest reasons they even made the playoffs without Crosby malkin etc and this year he could be a vezina candidate. Can't wait for luongo to get pulled for schneider

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04-10-2012, 07:35 AM
  #142
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Canucks play a different style then the pens which would help his gaa and sv%. Fluery is far better in elimination games. Just look at last year for luongo against bruins and the years before vs hawks. Admitting luongo is not the goalie Vancouver should play will be the first step in letting Schneider take over and luongo can watch his #1 job be taken from him. Canucks
won't win with luongo and I can't wait to watch the post game interviews.
http://canucks.nhl.com/club/stats.ht...112012&srt=gaa


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04-10-2012, 11:59 AM
  #143
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Hypocrisy. I'm sorry but how can you be up on your high horse when your team hasn't won anything either. That's the goal ya know, to win it all. What you don't seem to fathom is that a goalie in his 30's, signed until he's in his 40's in not a desirable contract. A cap dump, no. Undesirable, yes. The Canucks sucked at one point to you know. Please, inform me how you got the Sedins again? I'm dying to know.
Undesirable I still don't agree with, from any stand point except a fans anyway, but you're the first Leaf fan in this thread that I've read to make that distinction between not wanting him and counting him as a cap dump. I still don't see how the contract is that bad, as there are ways out with him retiring, being buried or forcing a trade, with out clauses. Even the argument about being in his 40s when the contract expires doesn't phase me. Selanne, Chelios, Lidstrom, Shanahan, Yzerman and goalies like Roloson, Brodeur and Hasek have all played, at a high level, well into their early 40s. All this and the short term pay off, of a lowered cap hit compared to, for example, Rinne or Lundquist, isn't an undesirable thing to most (not all) Canucks fans. It's not like its a Gomez cap hit for Gomez contributions, and I don't see anyone bashing other contracts, ie Marian Hossa, who plays a position with an allegedly shorter life span for a similar length and cap hit, but apparently without the out clauses.

You're damn right we sucked. We want to avoid that like the plague. A good section of our most recent woes were directly attributable to the GM the Leafs have now put in charge of their rebuild though, and yet gets credit for "building our current team". Even drafting players that are important to our core, he wasn't ever able to use them properly, and allowed more then a few talents to walk, and even takes credit for shooting down a Gretzky deal. Frankly, I'm in no mood to watch a different team walk the same road. I was wary of Anaheim picking him up, and I feel terrible for Leafs fans that want to keep him.

It's no secret we sucked, just as it's no secret a top goaltender would improve the Leafs, or most other teams. If you don't want our guy, that's great, wonderful, but I get a little snappy when other fan bases, who haven't watched our team outside of highlights, describe our star player as a cap dump, or offer a package thats lower then what the OP or last guy offered with as straight a face as one can on the internet. Or better yet, because of one or two fans of our fan base that are outright hostile to the guy, forming this "cap dump" idea.



As for jayball75, if not stats then what? Are you from an alternate reality where Fleury was played in the gold medal game and we won 2-1? Have you create perfect replicas not only both goalies but also of every NHL and KHL player present in the tournament, and replayed the tournament a thousand times and gotten better results from Fleury ala Deadliest Warrior? The guy was chosen by team Canada's staff as the starter, which says something right there, over Fleury, and HE WON THE GAME. Screw up you're showing or not, he held on and kept the second best team in the tournament to 2 flipping goals and you're calling him out. Then, comparing their respective careers, because we haven't got youtube access to ever game either one has played, then why can't we use stats as basis for an argument? Because it discredits your argument? Because Vancouver's defense is infinitely better then Pittsburghs has been? (it hasn't been...I'd say ever) "Better at elimination games"...how does that make him better over all, as even including these games Luongo still has these better stats? Help me understand this logic you're using.

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04-10-2012, 12:20 PM
  #144
Campoli2Burrows
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Here's a reminder for ya. Watch the thirty foot rebound off a shot to his glove that keeps play going then the goal after. You don't need to compare stats only the fact that fluery won a cup, was one of the biggest reasons they even made the playoffs without Crosby malkin etc and this year he could be a vezina candidate. Can't wait for luongo to get pulled for schneider
That is your proof that he choked? He let out a rebound to his defenceman who then proceeded to give the puck away? The defenceman gives the puck away and then watches two USA players sit in the crease between him and the goal while Luongo stops a point blank redirect, but it's Luongo who choked? Hockey's a team game bud, and his team kinda **** the bed on that goal. Think what you want though, you clearly have your mind made up.


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04-10-2012, 12:22 PM
  #145
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The biggest knock on him is dealing with the pressure. You sure he would want to go to Toronto?

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04-10-2012, 05:04 PM
  #146
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Stats or not the fact is fluery is a better choice over luongo given his playoff success. Are you denying the fact that he's more likely to play terrible in big games because the interviews and stories speak to that. I'll also assume that because you even commented on how good he is that you know something about the position. He definitely shouldn't criticize Thomas for his deficiencies when in the very next game he does the same thing taking himself out of position by over playing one side. Watch closely and you'll see him on his gut or back out of position instead of being strong in his position( when he drops to the butterfly) and staying on his knees with shoulders facing the shot. His glove is never in position moving side to side it's always at his knee. Anyway bottom line and yeah it's my opinion not yours but he's overrated. And no I don't take the time to recreate players as I wish them to be in games. That was just a dumb thing to say. Stats are stats and that doesn't mean they're a definate answer as to wether they're good or not. Elliot has better numbers but Halak is starting in game one cuz he's proven to play well under pressure.

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04-10-2012, 05:06 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Campoli2Burrows View Post
That is your proof that he choked? He let out a rebound to his defenceman who then proceeded to give the puck away? The defenceman gives the puck away and then watches two USA players sit in the crease between him and the goal while Luongo stops a point blank redirect, but it's Luongo who choked? Hockey's a
team game bud, and his team kinda **** the bed on that goal. Think what you want though, you clearly have your mind made up.
That was just one example bud. Just look it up. He's a good reg season goalie but doesn't play well all the time when needed.

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04-10-2012, 05:15 PM
  #148
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He definitely shouldn't criticize Thomas for his deficiencies when in the very next game he does the same thing taking himself out of position by over playing one side.
That thing was so overblown by the media, it was painful. He was asked a stupid question and answered honestly and truthfully. He had just been told to change his game to playing less aggressive and a tad deeper. All he said was that with their different styles, either of them makes some stops the other doesn't, and that was an example of that. He didn't critisize Thomas. It was simply the right answer to a question he should not be asked and an answer that was taken out of context to ridiculous degrees. The fact that he'd end up giving a rather similar goal shortly after doesn't change things that much. At the time of the question and his answer, it really wasn't a big deal.

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04-10-2012, 05:20 PM
  #149
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Say this again. There is zero chance Luongo would agree to a trade to Toronto.

Zero.
If he was going to be backup to Schneider he would.

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04-10-2012, 05:38 PM
  #150
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We would be looking for that immeadiately. None of those three, with the possible exception of Schenn, does that for us. Salo will be returning, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis are all under contract, Tanev is looking more and more like he deserves to be on this team, and even our whipping boy Ballard has been great this year (our teams "skid" started after Ballard was diagnosed with his concussion). Not to mention our current Wolves that are getting closer and closer to making the team. If that doesn't immeadiately rule Gardiner and Gunnarsson out, who haven't made the Leafs full time, I don't see them being a guarenteed improvement over what we have already, and even Schenn's inclusion wouldn't be a big enough upgrade.
lolwut

You obviously know nothing about the Leafs.

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