Norm Ullman

[Hardyvan123]

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958

Anomaly season. 1964-65 Ullman had more goals than assists. Only such season of his career.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...ullmano01.html

then he went back to normal, excellent supporting second line center without the defensive skills of a Henri Richard.

That's what I was thinking as well.

I haven't looked super close at Ullman but it's hardly a lock that he is a top 100 player of all time either which was suggested in the other thread.

His lack of cups was actually surprising to me and his playoff record is excellent in his peak 4 year stretch from 63-66 but outside of that peak run it's rather weak.

[vecens24]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

Probably lack of Cups.

It's amazing that he was ranked under Dave Keon by THN (and later this site), when Keon's own coach (Punch Imlach) clearly thought Ullman was a better player

I'm pretty sure that Imlach said that about a lot of people, because if you look in my ATD bio he Imlach said he wouldn't trade Keon for Gordie Howe.

[nik jr]

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

Ate you confusing Ullman with Alex Delvecchio? Ullman was a runner up for the Hart Trophy.

i think in system of voting used today, ullman probably would have won the hart.

bobby hull completely dominated the 1st half voting (88 of 90), b/c he scored nearly a goal per game.

although hull slumped and got injured in the 2nd half, and finished only 4th in scoring, but still won the hart b/c of his 1st half. hull's 2nd half: 15 of 90.


mikita won art ross, but ullman was a close 2nd, led the NHL in goals, and DRW finished 1st.

ullman was 2nd to hull in 1st half voting, and dominated 2nd half voting.

1964-65 HART: (324/324, 162-162)
1. Bobby Hull, Chi LW 103 (88-15)
2. Norm Ullman, Det C 96 (22-74)
3. Gordie Howe, Det RW 35 (9-26)
4. Roger Crozier, Det G 24 (8-16)
5. Charlie Hodge, Mtl G 16 (16-0)
6. Henri Richard, Mtl C 15 (11-4)
7. Stan Mikita, Chi C 14 (1-13)
8. Jean Beliveau, Mtl C 5 (1-4)
T9. Alex Delvecchio, Det C/LW 4 (0-4)
T9. Johnny Bower, Tor G 4 (0-4)
T9. Jacques Laperriere, Mtl D 4 (3-1)
T12. Bob Baun, Tor D 1 (0-1)
T12. Claude Provost, Mtl RW 1 (1-0)
T12. Ted Green, Bos D 1 (1-0)
T12. Bill Gadsby, Det D 1 (1-0)

[Hardyvan123]

Originally Posted by nik jr

i think in system of voting used today, ullman probably would have won the hart.

bobby hull completely dominated the 1st half voting (88 of 90), b/c he scored nearly a goal per game.

although hull slumped and got injured in the 2nd half, and finished only 4th in scoring, but still won the hart b/c of his 1st half. hull's 2nd half: 15 of 90.


mikita won art ross, but ullman was a close 2nd, led the NHL in goals, and DRW finished 1st.

ullman was 2nd to hull in 1st half voting, and dominated 2nd half voting.

Mikita won the art Ross and had a defensive game to him as well. his winning the Hart wouldn't be that out of place with H Sedin winning it either.

Either way it was a one off career year for him as well.

Howe was still the man in Detroit during Ullman's tenure there.

[nik jr]

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123

Mikita won the art Ross and had a defensive game to him as well. his winning the Hart wouldn't be that out of place with H Sedin winning it either.

Either way it was a one off career year for him as well.

Howe was still the man in Detroit during Ullman's tenure there.

hart for mikita seems unlikely to me.

mikita got 14 votes. ullman got 96. mikita got less votes for hart in 2nd half than badly slumping hull (13 vs 15).

when has a player been overshadowed by a teammate for most of the season, but won the hart? there would also be some splits in voting between hull and mikita.

[Hardyvan123]

Originally Posted by nik jr

hart for mikita seems unlikely to me.

mikita got 14 votes. ullman got 96. mikita got less votes for hart in 2nd half than badly slumping hull (13 vs 15).

when has a player been overshadowed by a teammate for most of the season, but won the hart? there would also be some splits in voting between hull and mikita.

I understand what you are saying but Mikita was 7th according to the voting system splits yet was the top scorer with a decent 2 way game as well.

Sure he would have been splitting votes with Hull but Ullman should have with Howe as well don't you think?

some of the hart voting results and trends over time ahve been really weird too.

Ullman had a great year that year but his career was more of a very good to excellent complimentary guy rather than a star.

I'm trying for a more current day comp but can't find an exact one maybe Ron Francis without the defensive chops?

Or Hossa but he is a winger.

He sure had a fine career and I really value longevity but I disagree with 70's Lord that he is slam dunk for the top 100 guys of all time.