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General Stars Talk IV: The Prequel

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04-08-2012, 12:35 AM
  #76
StarsFan74
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Joe will most certainly not be fired. Short of blowing up the team completely, he has done a pretty decent job of keeping the team somewhat competitive. More competitive than the abysmal Phoenix Coyotes teams of the past decade.
A job that would've been done better by keeping the coach who had the capability of taking mediocre teams to playoffs. IMO, competitive = makes playoffs, even though it doesn't make much noise there.

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He brought in Kari, Ryder, gave Larsen and Vincour their chances to stick, and has drafted pretty well outside of the big question marks in Glennie, Campbell and Oleksiak.
Oleksiak's offensive skills are questionable and last I heard, he isn't very physical like a Dougie Hamilton. However, he is blessed with great size and strength and impeccable skating skills. Brandon Worley on DFD seems to think so.

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Next year, I hope we will see Joe put together a team that will be able to compete and succeed. With the veterans we have, we won't. With Gully, we might not, but that remains to be seen. We don't know what kind of social dynamics go on in the locker room. Maybe the old guard needs to be fractured and re-integrated. Maybe we need to put the leadership in the locker room onto someone who will keep things realistically optimistic and not be the guy who creates a divide between management and the other players. Maybe we just need to round out the roster with guys who are capable hockey players to compliment our slowly deteriorating veteran complement?

We need to find a coach with more oomph and a roster with more reliable talent that comes out to play hockey. I hope Gaglardi gives Joe a leash next year, but GMJN needs to go out and right the ship.
He needs to go out and right the ship for sure, but I don't know if he fires Gully. Doesn't look good. We'll see how Gully does with a better squad and for that GMJN does deserve this off-season to show us he can be a strong front-office leader and he'd better be ready for it.

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04-08-2012, 12:36 AM
  #77
ReverendAlBundy
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Worst case of Gill with more mobility is a very very good thing, which is why Oleksiak was such a safe pick that high. Alot of other players drafted around him have a worst case of never cracking the NHL.

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04-08-2012, 12:37 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
On top of that, there's no way Richards was going to get traded at the deadline when the Stars hadn't yet begun their annual collapse and Richards was dealing with concussion issues.
The deadline issue is a no-brainer, but I am guessing the poster on DMN was focused on the manner we handled him during the off-season. IIRC, Richards didn't want to "hurt" the franchise he wanted to head towards by making them give up a draft-pick or prospect for negotiating rights.

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04-08-2012, 12:46 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
A job that would've been done better by keeping the coach who had the capability of taking mediocre teams to playoffs. IMO, competitive = makes playoffs, even though it doesn't make much noise there.

Oleksiak's offensive skills are questionable and last I heard, he isn't very physical like a Dougie Hamilton. However, he is blessed with great size and strength and impeccable skating skills.

He needs to go out and right the ship for sure, but I don't know if he fires Gully. Doesn't look good. We'll see how Gully does with a better squad and for that GMJN does deserve this off-season to show us he can be a strong front-office leader and he'd better be ready for it.
Gully has enjoyed nothing but success where ever he has coached until he got to Dallas. Same with Willie. It doesn't seem that the coach is going to be able to fix this team. I would keep Gulutzan on for ONE more season with a less ornery and more talented roster.

And yeah, I suppose that Gill isn't a terrible comparison. Gill was drafted in the 8th round in 93, played 4 full years of college hockey and is still playing in the NHL today. 15 years and he's still the best PKing D-man out there. But would a Hal Gill be drafted in the first round these days? Not likely. Especially with more "hockey talent" rather than "physical talent" left on the board...

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04-08-2012, 12:49 AM
  #80
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Yeah, but with how our prospect pool was looking it was probably alot wiser to go with the safe pick rather than boom or bust.

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04-08-2012, 12:52 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ReverendAlBundy View Post
Yeah, but with how our prospect pool was looking it was probably alot wiser to go with the safe pick rather than boom or bust.
Likely, but he might not even be Hal Gill with more mobility

The picks seem to be reflective upon the situation which he had encountered. Took the risky pick in Glennie. Took the risky pick in Campbell, took the safest pick in Oleksiak, if we're going to look at it that way.

Oh well, on to June 22nd!

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04-08-2012, 12:54 AM
  #82
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There really isn't a safe or risky pick this year. It'll be obvious if they make the wrong pick, but there's a nice-sized group of prospects that will be available at 13th.

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04-08-2012, 01:04 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Gully has enjoyed nothing but success where ever he has coached until he got to Dallas. Same with Willie. It doesn't seem that the coach is going to be able to fix this team. I would keep Gulutzan on for ONE more season with a less ornery and more talented roster.
One more season works for me.

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And yeah, I suppose that Gill isn't a terrible comparison. Gill was drafted in the 8th round in 93, played 4 full years of college hockey and is still playing in the NHL today. 15 years and he's still the best PKing D-man out there. But would a Hal Gill be drafted in the first round these days? Not likely. Especially with more "hockey talent" rather than "physical talent" left on the board...
And I will make the argument that Hatcher- another lumbering d-man- went in round 1...8th overall, IIRC. Hatcher had the meanness Gill didn't and proved to be a leader good enough to win the cup, but I guess we're just talking about skills.

It's a different era where d-men seem to be valued very high. Oleksiak was the BPA and that was the right decision to make. He has the size and shutdown skills, combined with great skating so let's see what more he can do. Do remember that Chara didn't always have that offensive element until he went to an offensive-oriented team like the Senators. Four years with that squad and he was a totally different beast. I hope Oleksiak can evolve similarly.

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04-08-2012, 01:09 AM
  #84
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To add to that when Chara first can into the league he could barely shoot the puck 75 mph and was used primarily to clear the crease on the pk. Offense can definitely develop over time.

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04-08-2012, 01:33 AM
  #85
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Exit interviews are scheduled for Wednesday.

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04-08-2012, 05:59 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
The picks seem to be reflective upon the situation which he had encountered. Took the risky pick in Glennie. Took the risky pick in Campbell, took the safest pick in Oleksiak, if we're going to look at it that way.
Seems like a pretty smart pick to me.

The bustability factor is relatively low (the chances of Oleksiak becoming at very least a functioning NHL defenseman are pretty good) and the upside is definitely there. I don't know if he'll ever put up consistent 45+ point seasons (maybe a reach) but he should be able to contribute solid defense definitely and decent offense. It just seems like he could be anything from a just okay NHL defenseman to an elite one. That's a player I can deal with having in the organization.

My theory on the Oleksiak draft pick is that the Glennie and Campbell (especially this one) picks were more Nieuwendyk influenced and Oleksiak was more of a scouting department pick.

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04-08-2012, 08:27 AM
  #87
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My theory on the Oleksiak draft pick is that the Glennie and Campbell (especially this one) picks were more Nieuwendyk influenced and Oleksiak was more of a scouting department pick.
I was actually thinking the exact opposite. But it makes a lot more sense that way. Glennie was a panic pick, and they looked to the guy in charge to make that pick. Scouting would've picked up on someone like Cowen still being available.

Campbell was an interesting pick. Had Fowler and Gormley not fallen so hard, that'd actually be an okay pick. And even still, it's not awful with Campbell looking great in the AHL so far (short stint, I know). I can definitely see where GMJN had his hand in that pick.

Oleksiak seems like the kind of guy he would target, though. Big, physical, defense first. A smart pick who's probably going to make the NHL as a #5-6 at the very least, he's got #1 potential still. And there's really no one below him that really stands out as a guy we should've taken.

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04-08-2012, 10:19 AM
  #88
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Exit interviews are scheduled for Wednesday.
*20 minutes later*
Try to relax and let your body heal this summer, Brenden. We'll be in touch. Oh, and make sure you collected all of your personal effects before you go.

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04-08-2012, 10:40 AM
  #89
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My theory on the Oleksiak draft pick is that the Glennie and Campbell (especially this one) picks were more Nieuwendyk influenced and Oleksiak was more of a scouting department pick.
Yeah I think it's the opposite. Nieuwendyk had barely moved into his office when the Glennie pick happened. He was pretty much 100% relying on his scouts. Campbell was Bernhardt's pick through and through. Oleksiak was part of a coordinated organizational effort to get bigger, something that probably got handed down by Nieuwendyk.

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04-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #90
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Yeah I think it's the opposite. Nieuwendyk had barely moved into his office when the Glennie pick happened. He was pretty much 100% relying on his scouts. Campbell was Bernhardt's pick through and through. Oleksiak was part of a coordinated organizational effort to get bigger, something that probably got handed down by Nieuwendyk.
Is there any evidence (as in: speculative article in print) that points to this? I'm curious to read the details of this (what I consider a) misstep.

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04-08-2012, 03:01 PM
  #91
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It's pretty widely believed and I think backed up with quotes by Berhardt himself that Campbell was his guy. I also think it's the reason he got fired. He pushed Campbell while pretty much everyone else wanted one of the defensemen. Campbell's terrible junior year sunk Bernhardt because Joe had to basically choose which philosophy to follow; Les Jackson vs. Bernhardt.

Personally I think Joe chose correctly.

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04-08-2012, 03:10 PM
  #92
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It's pretty widely believed and I think backed up with quotes by Berhardt himself that Campbell was his guy. I also think it's the reason he got fired. He pushed Campbell while pretty much everyone else wanted one of the defensemen. Campbell's terrible junior year sunk Bernhardt because Joe had to basically choose which philosophy to follow; Les Jackson vs. Bernhardt.

Personally I think Joe chose correctly.
He sure did.

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04-08-2012, 03:32 PM
  #93
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Was Bernhardt fired? I forget.

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04-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #94
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Was Bernhardt fired? I forget.
Yes, I believe so.

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04-08-2012, 03:47 PM
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It's pretty widely believed and I think backed up with quotes by Berhardt himself that Campbell was his guy. I also think it's the reason he got fired. He pushed Campbell while pretty much everyone else wanted one of the defensemen. Campbell's terrible junior year sunk Bernhardt because Joe had to basically choose which philosophy to follow; Les Jackson vs. Bernhardt.

Personally I think Joe chose correctly.
I see. Thanks.

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04-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #96
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Campbell is interesting because from what I've heard pretty much everyone was in on him. In that original 2010-11 Oil Change documentary (which I get to watch since I live in Edmonton) the first episode deals with the draft and the Oilers' scouting staff names Campbell as one of the elite guys in the draft that they'd love to trade up for. They also point out that there's probably no chance of that happening because everyone is on on those guys.

just seemed like Campbell's stock going into the draft was unbelievably high, and Gormley's / Fowler's was really low.

Still not that sure Fowler will be any good btw. His point total last season was inflated by playing with Visnovsky, Selanne, and the other lads on the #1 PP in the league but so far he's still given absolutely no proof that he can play NHL level defense - he's one of the weakest guys in the league in his own end. May be another Matt Niskaken situation.

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04-08-2012, 03:53 PM
  #97
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Campbell was one of three players in that draft with Franchise Player potential. In 5 years, that pick could be an absolute steal, or it could be a complete failure.

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04-08-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Campbell was one of three players in that draft with Franchise Player potential. In 5 years, that pick could be an absolute steal, or it could be a complete failure.
According to Nieuwendyk, IIRC. Was there a consensus around the league that he was in the same league as Seguin and Hall in terms of FPs?

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04-08-2012, 06:10 PM
  #99
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Campbell is interesting because from what I've heard pretty much everyone was in on him. In that original 2010-11 Oil Change documentary (which I get to watch since I live in Edmonton) the first episode deals with the draft and the Oilers' scouting staff names Campbell as one of the elite guys in the draft that they'd love to trade up for. They also point out that there's probably no chance of that happening because everyone is on on those guys.

just seemed like Campbell's stock going into the draft was unbelievably high, and Gormley's / Fowler's was really low.

Still not that sure Fowler will be any good btw. His point total last season was inflated by playing with Visnovsky, Selanne, and the other lads on the #1 PP in the league but so far he's still given absolutely no proof that he can play NHL level defense - he's one of the weakest guys in the league in his own end. May be another Matt Niskaken situation.
Fowler is 20 years old.............................

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04-08-2012, 06:14 PM
  #100
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And William Shatner is 81 years old..................



So, what's your point?

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