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Not a chance in hell is Perry worth that package alone.
Landeskog is 19 years of age and has the potential to reach Perry's value in the next few years. You have to factor in Landeskog's potential in any of these deals, not his immediate impact (which goes far and away beyond points).
EJ is clearly better than Fowler. In the future I could see them being equal if Fowler can settle into some consistency as he gets older and EJ didn't improve from this season, but EJ also has potential still to put his offensive game together and become the 45-50 point threat he shows flashes of.
Duchene meanwhile is the epitomy of why you need maturity when you enter the league as a young player. O'Reilly and Landeskog have it in spades, Duchene still thinks he can win games based on his skill alone (which is through the roof, he has the potential to be better than Ryan).
So in terms of value... once again.
Duchene > Ryan
EJ > Fowler
Perry > Landeskog, add a couple pluses if you will, but don't forget Landeskog's potential in this fantasy deal.
No way does Colorado consider less if moving those 3 cornerstones of the future, let alone would they take this offer at face value. I was just trying to put something out that was relatively neutral compared to the one that had 1st rounders used, because the Avs don't deal for high draft picks.
so Lando is going to be a near 40 goal scorer every year and win a hart trophy? Perry is being grossly underrated, as usual
I really think teh best fit for a Duchene trade if the Avs move him is something like Dutchy, Barrie and a 2nd for Enstrom and Burmistrov. Gets the Avs the young partner for EJ that they need and a young C who can give us the ability to roll 3 scoring lines down the line. If we trade one of our Centers we need a top pairing Dman coming back and adding one of our young dmen prospects for a forward prospect to even out the balance is what makes sense most. Anaheim only has one dman that fits the parameters but I don't think a Fowler based package for a Duchene based package can be made to work for both teams. At least with Phoenix something like Yandle and Boedker for Stas and Barrie is close ish.
Yeah, yeah, Duchene has the potential to be X and Lando has the potential to be Y. You know who I don't have to make those allowances for? Corey Perry. He IS one of the best power forwards in the game. Maybe trading those players isn't worth it for Colorado, and I can understand why you'd feel that way, but don't think for a second that Anaheim is going to care about potential when it comes to trading our proven franchise forward.
What X and Y are you talking about? You can 'think' or whatever you want to call it that Landeskog 'may or may not' be a dominant winger for years to come. In addition to being great defensively and physically, add in his his excellent leadership skills at 19.. he WILL be a force in the NHL. And Duchene isn't going to be X, he's going to be Matt Duchene. That is a 67 point center who was 20 and unfortunately got hurt this season slowing down his production (60 games 30 points, probably less). I'm not trying to sound like a biased fan or anything, but if Lando and Duchene can't land Perry then what would? Hey, maybe I'm underrating Perry and overrating my guys, but I'm not even going to talk about adding EJ to that deal.. that's on the verge of insanity.
Matt Duchene has similar value to each of the Duck players individually, so I'm not sure what the Avalanche would add. Ryan O'Reilly? Erik Johnson? Didn't think so.
Duchene straight across for Ryan makes the most sense. If the Avalanche aren't interested in doing that swap because of Duchene's potential growth, then they shouldn't be trading him at all.
What X and Y are you talking about? You can 'think' or whatever you want to call it that Landeskog 'may or may not' be a dominant winger for years to come. In addition to being great defensively and physically, add in his his excellent leadership skills at 19.. he WILL be a force in the NHL. And Duchene isn't going to be X, he's going to be Matt Duchene. That is a 67 point center who was 20 and unfortunately got hurt this season slowing down his production (60 games 30 points, probably less). I'm not trying to sound like a biased fan or anything, but if Lando and Duchene can't land Perry then what would? Hey, maybe I'm underrating Perry and overrating my guys, but I'm not even going to talk about adding EJ to that deal.. that's on the verge of insanity.
It doesn't matter what the X and Y are. Just like it wouldn't matter if I felt you should give us Duchene for Palmieri+ because he has the potential to be Z. That's a dumb risk for you to take. Kind of like it's a dumb risk for us to take Duchene and some picks or Landeskog and some picks for Perry. A Hart winner is going to be expensive to land, no matter how hard you wish it to be otherwise. If you want Landeskog/Duchene to get you the full value of their potential, then consider waiting until they've earned it. You know, kind of like every Ducks fan in this thread wants to do with Fowler.
Matt Duchene has similar value to each of the Duck players individually, so I'm not sure what the Avalanche would add. Ryan O'Reilly? Erik Johnson? Didn't think so.
Duchene straight across for Ryan makes the most sense. If the Avalanche aren't interested in doing that swap because of Duchene's potential growth, then they shouldn't be trading him at all.
I really hope you are excluding Getzlaf and Perry in this.
His value is similar to Bobby. Perry and Getzlaf? no, Especially Perry.
so Lando is going to be a near 40 goal scorer every year and win a hart trophy? Perry is being grossly underrated, as usual
Landeskog has the potential to be a consistent 30 goal scorer with some 40 goal seasons (last I checked Perry has had 2 seasons above ~30 goals...) and provide so much in other areas (defense, leadership, hits, etc.) that it isn't a stretch to claim he could reach Perry's level.
Then you consider 1 is cost controlled and contract controlled, the other is about to be a UFA and get their big pay day...
What I proposed before was a deal where Anaheim gave up the best player and then got the next 3 best players.
Yes, I just said I'd take any of Duchene, EJ or Landeskog over Ryan.
My post was originally a response where someone tried to put the value on those 3 combined in a deal, so I didn't just post it for no reason.
I'd love to acquire Duchene but he keeps getting injured which worries me. The only untouchables for the Ducks are Getzlaf, Perry, Fowler, Sbisa, Etem.
I'd love to acquire Duchene but he keeps getting injured which worries me. The only untouchables for the Ducks are Getzlaf, Perry, Fowler, Sbisa, Etem.
I would do a Downie, Duchene for Bobby Ryan.
Top 6 forward and Duchene?
If we're trading Duchene for Ryan, the Ducks are the team thats adding. Stastny seems the most fair if we were trading straight up tho...
There are other solutions out there for a 2C that don't involve moving Ryan or Fowler, so the Ducks stand pat. The Ducks don't gain by gaining one piece and creating two large gaps in the lineup.
I'm sure the Avs feel the same way about securing a top 6 forward to play with Duchene, not at the expense of him.
What 2nd line centers do you see the Ducks targeting either through trade or free agency?
Landeskog has the potential to be a consistent 30 goal scorer with some 40 goal seasons (last I checked Perry has had 2 seasons above ~30 goals...) and provide so much in other areas (defense, leadership, hits, etc.) that it isn't a stretch to claim he could reach Perry's level.
Then you consider 1 is cost controlled and contract controlled, the other is about to be a UFA and get their big pay day...
What I proposed before was a deal where Anaheim gave up the best player and then got the next 3 best players.
Yes, I just said I'd take any of Duchene, EJ or Landeskog over Ryan.
My post was originally a response where someone tried to put the value on those 3 combined in a deal, so I didn't just post it for no reason.
Perry has seasons of 29, 32, 27, 50, and 37 goals, so please give him his due. Landeskog has one season of 22 goals. Plenty of players fail to get considerably better (still waiting for Patrick Kane to even hit 30 again), so while it certainly MAY happen, it's hardly a sure thing. And I think it's a stretch to say he'll win a Hart or Rocket at this point. Full disclosure I would have said the same about Perry.
Landeskog has the potential to be a consistent 30 goal scorer with some 40 goal seasons (last I checked Perry has had 2 seasons above ~30 goals...) and provide so much in other areas (defense, leadership, hits, etc.) that it isn't a stretch to claim he could reach Perry's level.
Then you consider 1 is cost controlled and contract controlled, the other is about to be a UFA and get their big pay day...
What I proposed before was a deal where Anaheim gave up the best player and then got the next 3 best players.
Yes, I just said I'd take any of Duchene, EJ or Landeskog over Ryan.
My post was originally a response where someone tried to put the value on those 3 combined in a deal, so I didn't just post it for no reason.
i see your point and i (as a ducks fan) think its very valid...but, what you described in landeskog is what is/was described with ryan but he has done it (only other active player to do it in 1st 4 NHL seasons is ovi)...now granted fowler had a bad year ( 5G 24) as well as the whole team did, but we cant forget that as a 19 y.o. rookie he had 10G 30A 40P...i think the reason these proposals get derailed is because both teams have GREAT players that show a TON of promise and none of them would be easy to replace...so i would say it needs to be something around ryan and duchene with picks/prospects/depth guys rounding it out....at i admit i am horrible with player's value but i just dont see ANY of the other players being moved by either team (rightfully so) and i have a hard time seeing either of ryan and duchene being moved (IMO duchene was born to be av)
I'd love to acquire Duchene but he keeps getting injured which worries me. The only untouchables for the Ducks are Getzlaf, Perry, Fowler, Sbisa, Etem.
I would do a Downie, Duchene for Bobby Ryan.
I'm sure you would.
No way Etem would be an untouchable with Duchene involved either. If we could get Duchene by packaging Etem I'd hope we'd be all of it. Trading from a position of strength to acquire someone who would fix our biggest position of weakness? Yes please.
No way Etem would be an untouchable with Duchene involved either. If we could get Duchene by packaging Etem I'd hope we'd be all of it. Trading from a position of strength to acquire someone who would fix our biggest position of weakness? Yes please.
Not that it would happen anyway.
Etems untouchable.... The reason is cause we DON'T know what we have with him.... He could be ending up better than duchene we don't know. And all signs are pointing that he will be a very good player one day.
Etems untouchable.... The reason is cause we DON'T know what we have with him.... He could be ending up better than duchene we don't know. And all signs are pointing that he will be a very good player one day.
Matt Duchene is already a very good player. And is in a position of need [center (assuming he still plays there)] while Etem is in a position [winger] where we can afford to trade one if it meant getting a very good player with elite potential.
Of course if Duchene has been moved from center then it's a different story.
The only reason anyone would think he's untouchable is because he's from California, but having an elite 1-2 punch down the middle of Getzlaf/Duchene that would really give us a good chance of winning would bring in a lot more fans then Etem just being on the team.
